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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009foist
Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? "Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion -- those are not simply principles of the West to be hoisted on these countries, but rather what I believe to be universal principles that they can embrace and affirm as part of their national identity." http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hijjXgicEadEFRfh7UB0AARaLwOg Adrian Adrian Bailey filted: >Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? > >"Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion -- those are >not simply principles of the West to be hoisted on these countries, but >rather what I believe to be universal principles that they can embrace and >affirm as part of their national identity." Too bad he used it in connection with "principles"..."standards" would have worked with either verb....r  SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Quoth R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>, and I quote: >Adrian Bailey filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Too bad he used it in connection with "principles"..."standards" would have >worked with either verb....r I looked at the origin and history of "foist" in OED. It is probably from a Dutch verb related to "fist" and it first meant palming a false die to be introduced surreptitiously during the game. Hence such meanings as "To practise roguery, to cheat", "To put forth or allege fraudulently", "To put (a person) off with something inferior". I think it's unfortunate to associate "Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion" with anything fraudulent or inferior. Substituting "hoist" doesn't exactly make it any better. A word meaning "lift" is a very strange synonym for "impose". SignatureJames > Quoth R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > freedom of speech, freedom of religion" with anything fraudulent > or inferior. The US is often fraudulent when discussing the goals of its wars. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >The US is often fraudulent when discussing the goals of its wars. Sorry, Jeff, the deadline for entries in the "Understatement of the Year" contest was May 31st. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> The US is often fraudulent when discussing the goals of its wars. >> > Sorry, Jeff, the deadline for entries in the "Understatement of the > Year" contest was May 31st. He could be made to put it on a big sheet of cardboard and be foist with his own placard. (Sorry: needs work...Bro Hogg could oblige.) SignatureMike. >Quoth R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Substituting "hoist" doesn't exactly make it any better. A word >meaning "lift" is a very strange synonym for "impose". But you could extend "lift" to "unload (on)", "heap upon", "pile upon" etc, so may not be totally incorrect (although "foist" is the obvious word). Anyway, I always thought that "foist" simply came before "second". SignatureIan Quoth "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>, and I quote: >Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hijjXgicEadEFRfh7UB0AARaLwOg Words with initial /f/ underwent aspiration to yield /h/ in Spanish. Latin "filius" became Spanish "hijo". Are we once again witnessing the effects of the Basque-Cantabrian-Iberian substratum? SignatureJames Quoth "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>, and I quote: >Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hijjXgicEadEFRfh7UB0AARaLwOg I have found some Google hits for "hoist this/that on", and there must be lots more hits with various objects. Here's an interesting quotation, again from a politician: "We are stuck here today with this bill again, Mr. Speaker, Bill No. 67. Why would they want to hoist this on people, and I hate to use the word hoist." So why did he use it? SignatureJames > Quoth "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > So why did he use it? These errors are mainly caused, I think, by the relative lack of use of, and subsequent unfamiliarity with, the correct word. "Hoist" is better known, and kind of fits, so even if "foist" is there in a mental crevice somewhere, the brain bottles it. Adrian > Quoth "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>, and I quote: >> Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? >> "Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion -- >> those are not simply principles of the West to be hoisted on these >> countries, but rather what I believe to be universal principles >> that they can embrace and affirm as part of their national >> identity." http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hijjXgicEadEFRfh7UB0AARaLwOg> I have found some Google hits for "hoist this/that on", and there> must be lots more hits with various objects. Here's an> interesting quotation, again from a politician:What country?> "We are stuck here today with this bill again, Mr. Speaker, Bill> No. 67. Why would they want to hoist this on people, and I hate> to use the word hoist."> So why did he use it?Could be parliamentary humour. Maybe he was planning an attempt toderail the bill.The hoist, if agreed to, kills the legislation it amends."The hoist is an amendment that may be moved to a motion for thesecond or third reading of a bill. It requires no notice, may bedebated and may not be amended. A hoist amendment requests that a billnot "now" be read a second time, but instead that second reading bepostponed for three or six months."http://www.parl.gc.ca/compendium/web-content/c_d_hoistamendmentsbills-e.htm >> Quoth "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>, and I quote: >>> Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? >>> "Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion -- >>> those are not simply principles of the West to be hoisted on these >>> countries, but rather what I believe to be universal principles >>> that they can embrace and affirm as part of their national >>> identity." >>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hijj >>> XgicEadEFRfh7UB0AARaLwOg> >> I have found some Google hits for "hoist this/that on", and there> >> must be lots more hits with various objects. Here's an interesting >> quotation, again from a politician: >What country? >> "We are stuck >> here today with this bill again, Mr. Speaker, Bill No. 67. Why >> would they want to hoist this on people, and I hate to use the >> word hoist." >> So why did he use it? > Could be parliamentary humour. Maybe he was planning an attempt to > derail the bill. > The hoist, if agreed to, kills the legislation it amends. >"The hoist is an amendment that may be moved to a motion for the >second or third > reading of a bill. It requires no notice, may be debated and may not > be amended. A hoist amendment requests that a bill not "now" be read > a second time, but instead that second reading be postponed for > three or six months." > http://www.parl.gc.ca/compendium/web-content/c_d_hoistamendmentsbills-e.htm Sorry about the attributions. I hope I have now set them in some kind of order. > Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? What did he mean second? --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >> Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? > >What did he mean second? You beat me by a short head! SignatureIan Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I quote: >>> Did you notice that Obama used "hoist" when he meant "foist"? >> >>What did he mean second? >> >You beat me by a short head! Let's see who comes thoid. SignatureJames >Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >quote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Let's see who comes thoid. Or is that turd? As it happens the foist important thing I did this morning was to take my car to have some work done on it by a company named Hoist. Or more writtenly "...first...Hurst". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >> quote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Or more writtenly "...first...Hurst". I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would have been the vowel. Maybe it was "hurst" since it sounds the way I say "wurst". Does that have an umlaut? Worst, woist. Back to foist. > I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). I > expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would have been > the vowel. o Adrian >> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). >> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Adrian OK. But it had the umlaut? > >> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). > >> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would > >> have been the vowel. > > o "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbc.com> wrote in message > > news:h043ia$ffj$1@news.albasani.net... > OK. But it had the umlaut? No, cf. the various Horsts in the printed record, Horst Wessel, Horst Buchholz et al. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >>> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). >>> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > OK. But it had the umlaut? I thought you were talking about a surname, in which case the German surname Hörst (pr. hurst) does exist. If it was his first name, it was Horst (no umlaut), so I don't see why it would be pronounced "hurst" unless it was an attempt at assimilation. Adrian >>>> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced >>>> Hurst/Hearst). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > it would be pronounced "hurst" unless it was an attempt at > assimilation. Thank you all for the commentary. I should have mentioned that this is a surname. I think they had been married for 20 years before I was told the correct pronunciation. (Of course I have heard of the Horst Wessel Lied, and of Horst Bucholz, but those are, again, words I have only read or have heard in English-speakers' pronunciation, so I am still in the dark about that. I will assume that Robban's note (pronounced as in 'horse" is correct.) >> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). >> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would have >> been the vowel. Horst is a reasonably common German name. I have never come across an umlauted version. Pronounce it more or less like "horse" with a t on the end. SignatureRob Bannister > >> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). > >> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > umlauted version. Pronounce it more or less like "horse" with a t on the > end. It occurs umlauted as a family name, Jan >>>> I have a cousin married a man named Horst (pronounced Hurst/Hearst). >>>> I expect it originally had an umlaut, but I don't know what would have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It occurs umlauted as a family name, Yes, sorry. I was only thinking about given names. SignatureRob Bannister > >> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I > >> quote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > been the vowel. Maybe it was "hurst" since it sounds the way I say > "wurst". Does that have an umlaut? Worst, woist. Back to foist. May well be of Dutch origin, without an umlaut, [1] Jan [1] BTW, German Horst (as a proper name) usually doesn't have an umlaut either. >> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >> quote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Or more writtenly "...first...Hurst". In my family we have a noun "foisting". A foisting is an object you no longer want, and have successfully got another member of the family to take away, even though they will soon wish they hadn't accepted it. My mother is a champ at this game, and I'm a complete bunny. SignatureMike. >>> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>> quote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >take away, even though they will soon wish they hadn't accepted it. My >mother is a champ at this game, and I'm a complete bunny. Hopefully, every literate family has "foisting" in their vocabulary. It means exactly as you describe. SignatureIan >>>> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>>> quote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Hopefully, every literate family has "foisting" in their > vocabulary. It means exactly as you describe. In the 1940s my parents were members of a faculty group who had an annual "White Elephant" party, where everyone brought those foisted gifts they wished to redistribute. The prized item was a chalkware plaque, bearing fruity still-life, which was autographed by each recipient before the next foisting. When I saw it it had about twenty signatures, which leads me to believe the foist foist must have been in the nineteen thoities. SignatureFrank ess >>>>> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>>>> quote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >signatures, which leads me to believe the foist foist must have been >in the nineteen thoities. We used to be with a group that did a similar thing. Each item was wrapped to conceal the contents and labeled with a number. The first participant drew a number from a hat and took that item. The second participant drew a number and either took that numbered item or the item that the first participant took. The first participant then took the item corresponding to the second participant's number. This kept going with each participant either taking the item corresponding to their number or an item from a previous draw. Participants were husband and wife as a team. The wife usually went for the practical object, and the husband went for the ugliest object. The most sought after item by the husbands was a stuffed male armadillo - rampant, but on both hind legs - with full genitalia. We were fortunate enough to be the last winners of the armadillo (divorce decimated the group and it disbanded), but I gave it to my son. My daughter-in-law wants to start a new group so it can be exchanged for a toilet brush set or something practical. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>>> quote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Hopefully, every literate family has "foisting" in their > vocabulary. It means exactly as you describe. Isn't that the verb, rather than the noun - which is clearly a famility word, but one I rather like. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu Quoth Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk>, and I quote: >>>>> Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>>>> quote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Isn't that the verb, rather than the noun - which is clearly a famility >word, but one I rather like. I quite like the word "famility". SignatureJames > Quoth Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk>, and I quote: > >>Isn't that the verb, rather than the noun - which is clearly a famility >>word, but one I rather like. > > I quite like the word "famility". And my fingers must like it as well. But it needs a good meaning if we're going to set it loose on the world. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >> On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:59:48 +0200, James Hogg >> <Jas.Hogg@gOUTmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > take away, even though they will soon wish they hadn't accepted it. My > mother is a champ at this game, and I'm a complete bunny. Church fundraisings (bazaars, rummage sales, etc.) are sometimes announced as "white elephant sales". I am pretty sure the foisting your family does would be recognized as "bestowing white elephants" on the unsuspecting. >Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >quote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Let's see who comes thoid. Go fourth and multiply. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England Quoth Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com>, and I quote: >>Quoth Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, and I >>quote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Go fourth and multiply. Go tenth and decimate. SignatureJames > Quoth Robin Bignall <docro...@ntlworld.com>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Go tenth and decimate. Go twentieth and score. -- Jerry Friedman >> Quoth Robin Bignall <docro...@ntlworld.com>, and I quote: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Go twentieth and score. Go 144th and be grocer. (This apostrophe ess deliberately left blank.) SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England |
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