Singular media, singular their
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Steve Hayes - 28 Jun 2009 04:58 GMT "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I might add) - to these "superstars"."
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/-michael-jackson-farrah- iran-is-dead.html
Just as I don't like "comprises of", I don't like the singular "media", though I'm quite happy with singular "their". In this case, however, it looks bizarre.
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Fred - 28 Jun 2009 07:02 GMT > "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed > McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I might [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm quite happy with singular "their". In this case, however, it looks > bizarre. Why do you think media is singular?
Steve Hayes - 29 Jun 2009 02:21 GMT >> "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed >> McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I might [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Why do you think media is singular? Because the writer uses "is" rather than "are".
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Fred - 29 Jun 2009 23:13 GMT >>> "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of >>> Ed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Because the writer uses "is" rather than "are". The writer also uses 'their'.
Mark Brader - 28 Jun 2009 07:03 GMT Steve Hayes:
> "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed > McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I might [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm quite happy with singular "their". In this case, however, it looks > bizarre. I don't like singular "media" either, but as for the "their", I think is this the standard informal North American construction where businesses and other organizations (if their name does not appear to be plural) take singular verbs but the pronoun "they".
"Simpson's *was* my favorite department store. Whatever I wanted, *they* always had it in stock."
"The Department of Finance *is* changing *their* policy on that."
If "the media" is singular, then it makes sense to use the same construction.
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Eric Walker - 28 Jun 2009 07:39 GMT > "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of > Ed McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > though I'm quite happy with singular "their". In this case, however, it > looks bizarre. There's a sound reason for that: it _is_ bizarre.
At no time has "media" ever become a plural. It's just lazy ignorance that has become, in this era of "idiolects", embalmed, much as with the old time ballplayers' references to "second basemens".
Apparently, the good old collective noun "press" was felt to be somehow inapplicable to a collection of media that includes non-print outlets. Rather than take the simple and obvious step of letting "press" expand by metaphorical extension (the dictionary is strewn with words that have exceeded their literal meaning, such as "dilapidated"), the ijjits decided that "media" would be plugged in as a substitute for "press".
Exactly which bodily part would experience severe pain should someone write "the media are" remains occult knowledge.
Singular "their" is a cancer, period the end.
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Eric Walker - 28 Jun 2009 07:47 GMT [...]
> At no time has "media" ever become a plural. . . . Obviously a thinko for "singular".
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Evan Kirshenbaum - 28 Jun 2009 16:10 GMT > At no time has "media" ever become a [singular]. Clearly. OED quotations from the 1920s on notwithstanding. (That's ignoring the anatomical sense of singular "media", cited to 1876.)
> It's just lazy ignorance that has become, in this era of > "idiolects", embalmed, much as with the old time ballplayers' [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "dilapidated"), the ijjits decided that "media" would be plugged in > as a substitute for "press". Yes. Extending "press" is something that could have been done, but apparently wasn't. Rather, pretty much as soon as there was a medium for news that didn't involve printing, the word "media" was applied to the set of ways that news was delivered.
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Garrett Wollman - 28 Jun 2009 17:50 GMT >Yes. Extending "press" is something that could have been done, but >apparently wasn't. Rather, pretty much as soon as there was a medium >for news that didn't involve printing, the word "media" was applied to >the set of ways that news was delivered. That's rather at odds with my impression.
In the early part of the radio era, print organzations were quite hostile to radio, and they used their influence with public officials to exclude radio from official recognition. They were not allowed in news conferences; could not join press clubs, newsgathering collectives, correspondents' associations; and did not get briefings and tips from their elected officials. The First Amendment's guarantee of "freedom of the press" waa not yet established as applying to radio, and in fact, FCC regulations restricted licensed stations to only two newscasts a day. Newspapers were worried, of course, that if the news were available immediately, for free, from radio, then no one would pay for their report on it the next day.
For a while, this worked, but radio clealy was not going away, and there were some strong personalities and businessmen involved in radio -- such as local department-store owners -- who could push hard on local politicians to get access. Eventually, newspapers and radio settled into a more cooperative frame, in which radio stations formed alliances with their local papers, and other papers started or purchased their on radio stations. They no longer had an incentive to exclude radio from press conferences and press organizations.
In 1939, the FCC's "Mayflower Broadcasting" decision prohibited stations from taking editorial positions.
Then along came World War II, and the dissemination of official "war information" was considered so important that radio stations were given special treatment. Important stations' transmitter sites were given 24-hour military protection, to guard against sabotage by the enemy. Some stations which served populations seen as important by the government, such as farmers, were given special access to materials and electronics to upgrade their facilities and thereby expand their reach. They were allowed, of course, to broadcast as much propaganda as they wished.
In the late 1940s, the FCC enacted the "Fairness Doctrine", which allowed editorializing once again, so long as those holding an opposing view were afforded a "reasonable opportunity" to respond. Television came onto the scene, but unlike with the beginning of commercial radio, the biggest players in television were also the biggest players in radio; they would not do to themselves what newspapers had done to them twenty years earlier.
There was still at this time still competition between print and broadcast, and I suspect you could easily find references that restrict the meaning of "the press" to print alone. But if we fast-forward another thirty years, "the press" clearly refers to all news-gatherers and -disseminators, not just print. I can't tell from its published history when the National Press Club opened its doors to radio and television journalists (although they do say that they finally admitted women in 1971); today they are one of the biggest producers of news audio and video in Washington.
These days, journalists appear to distinguish between "the press", meaning news reporters and producers, and "the media", meaning the means of dissemination which include news content, but in many cases are primarily distributors of something else such as entertainment or political vitriol. Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow are members of "the media" but not "the press". But this is not a universal distinction, and I'm not at all sure that it means anything to the great body of the public.
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Steve Hayes - 29 Jun 2009 02:29 GMT >> At no time has "media" ever become a [singular]. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >for news that didn't involve printing, the word "media" was applied to >the set of ways that news was delivered. Originally "it" was called the "news media" or the "mass media", and comprised, composed, consisted of newspapers, magazines, radio, television etc.
I have no objection to referring to newspapers, magazines, radio and television collectively as "they", but find the implication that "they is" jarring.
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Evan Kirshenbaum - 29 Jun 2009 17:11 GMT >>> At no time has "media" ever become a [singular]. >> >>Clearly. OED quotations from the 1920s on notwithstanding. (That's >>ignoring the anatomical sense of singular "media", cited to 1876.) [snip]
>>Yes. Extending "press" is something that could have been done, but >>apparently wasn't. Rather, pretty much as soon as there was a medium [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > comprised, composed, consisted of newspapers, magazines, radio, > television etc. And early on, it was seen as singular:
1923 G. SNOW in N. T. Praigg _Advertising & Selling_ 240 Mass media represents the most economical way of getting the story over the new and wider market in the least time.
They have a 1927 quote with "advertising medias", a plural which appears to have disappeared, but which shows that "media" was in singular use.
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Eric Walker - 29 Jun 2009 23:37 GMT [...]
> They have a 1927 quote with "advertising medias", a plural which appears > to have disappeared, but which shows that "media" was in singular use. I wonder what such folk do when presented with the need for the true singular: "Stan Freburg did a series of ads touting the value of radio as an especially effective advertising medium." Do they say "media" and think it works?
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Maria Conlon - 30 Jun 2009 02:20 GMT Eric Walker wrote: .
> [...] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > an especially effective advertising medium." Do they say "media" and > think it works? I'd use "medium" in the sentence you just quoted.
But: Some uses of "media"...
Television media (could be singular or plural, I'd say) The media (plural) Which media would you use? (singular or plural) Media center (probably plural -- except when it isn't)
Is "media" still in transition?
 Signature Maria Conlon
Steve Hayes - 30 Jun 2009 11:52 GMT >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >an especially effective advertising medium." Do they say "media" and >think it works? A spirit media told me my dead uncle was trying to contact me.
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John Holmes - 28 Jun 2009 08:33 GMT > "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death > of Ed McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "media", though I'm quite happy with singular "their". In this case, > however, it looks bizarre. It's a simple misspelling. It should be "The Meejah", a singular creature with the mind of a flock of sheep, and always capitalised.
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John Kane - 28 Jun 2009 20:49 GMT > > "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death > > of Ed McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It's a simple misspelling. It should be "The Meejah", a singular > creature with the mind of a flock of sheep, and always capitalised. Are you not insulting sheep everywhere?
John Kane Kingston ON Canada
Mark Brader - 10 Jul 2009 20:02 GMT Last month, Steve Hayes commented on:
> "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed > McMahon, today Farrah and then Michael Jackson (of natural causes, I might > add) - to these "superstars"." Some new security features were added this month to the Toronto Transit Commission's monthly pass, the Metropass. These are sold in stores and at subway stations, and new passes are produced for each calendar month, which means that the TTC has to buy back unsold ones from merchants. Allegedly some merchants were returning as unsold passes that had actually been used for the first few days of the month.
To prevent this, the pass now has a sticker that has to be peeled off after it's sold. A sticker reading:
This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed
The friend who pointed out the wording to me disliked it for three different reasons. I agreed with one of them.
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Paul Wolff - 10 Jul 2009 20:37 GMT >Last month, Steve Hayes commented on: >> "The media is devoting their entire newscasts - yesterday the death of Ed [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >The friend who pointed out the wording to me disliked it for three >different reasons. I agreed with one of them. Change "if" to "when". On "this...media", the battle is lost.
And why not say "this pass", if that's what it is, instead of getting silly with "fare media", which is utterly vague and pseudo-tech, and instead of doing its job calls up Dublin's fair city, or a fair pretty maid, in my mind.
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Garrett Wollman - 10 Jul 2009 23:10 GMT >> [Mark Brader quotes the Toronto Transit Commission:] >> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed
>And why not say "this pass", if that's what it is, instead of getting >silly with "fare media", which is utterly vague and pseudo-tech, There's nothing either vague or "pseudo-tech" about "fare media". It's just nerdview: the jargon of the business escaping into a public place where most readers will be unfamiliar with it.
-GAWollman
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Paul Wolff - 10 Jul 2009 23:22 GMT >In article <5DoxHoaBi5VKFAcg@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>, >>> [Mark Brader quotes the Toronto Transit Commission:] [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >There's nothing either vague or "pseudo-tech" about "fare media". >It's just nerdview: It is vague to the man in the street, who is precisely the target of the notice. Ask the man standing next to you at the bus stop whether he has a fare media about his person, and see what he replies.
>the jargon of the business escaping into a public >place where most readers will be unfamiliar with it. Well. What purpose does it serve? Or as M Tullius Cicero more usefully said, cui bono?
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Garrett Wollman - 10 Jul 2009 23:49 GMT >>There's nothing either vague or "pseudo-tech" about "fare media". >>It's just nerdview: > >It is vague to the man in the street, who is precisely the target of the >notice. Ask the man standing next to you at the bus stop whether he has >a fare media about his person, and see what he replies. As I said, it's nerdview. There's nothing vague about it (unless by "vague" you mean "not part of most English speakers' vocabulary", which is not what I mean by "vague").
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Skitt - 11 Jul 2009 00:33 GMT >>> [Mark Brader quotes the Toronto Transit Commission:] >>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's just nerdview: the jargon of the business escaping into a public > place where most readers will be unfamiliar with it. To be more precise, a fare is the price charged to transport a person. The medium, a means for effecting or conveying that charge, is money.
"Fare media" in this context is wrong on two counts.
 Signature Skitt (AmE)
Mark Brader - 11 Jul 2009 01:45 GMT Garrett Wollman:
>> There's nothing either vague or "pseudo-tech" about "fare media". >> It's just nerdview: the jargon of the business escaping into a public >> place where most readers will be unfamiliar with it. Yep. That was the bit of usage I objected to, by the way: "pass" would be shorter, and also more comprehensible to most of the people reading it.
"Skitt":
> To be more precise, a fare is the price charged to transport a person. > The medium, a means for effecting or conveying that charge, is money. No. The term "fare media" includes any physical object that a transit system employee or machine takes or examines, in order for you to pay your fare or prove that you have already paid, as applicable. These objects could be tickets, tokens, transfers, passes, anything like that.
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Skitt - 11 Jul 2009 02:10 GMT > Garrett Wollman:
>>> There's nothing either vague or "pseudo-tech" about "fare media". >>> It's just nerdview: the jargon of the business escaping into a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > objects could be tickets, tokens, transfers, passes, anything like > that. Even conceding that, there's only one fare medium in play, whatever it is called. I'm not so sure that anything other than legal tender can be considered a fare, though. What the original post was talking about was a form of a receipt of that legal tender.
 Signature Skitt (AmE) tendering his two cents worth
Steve Hayes - 11 Jul 2009 12:25 GMT >Even conceding that, there's only one fare medium in play, whatever it is >called. I'm not so sure that anything other than legal tender can be >considered a fare, though. What the original post was talking about was a >form of a receipt of that legal tender. I used to be a bus conductor and I sold bus tickets. If bus tickets is fare media, you could have fooled me.
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Skitt - 11 Jul 2009 18:50 GMT > "Skitt" wrote:
>> Even conceding that, there's only one fare medium in play, whatever >> it is called. I'm not so sure that anything other than legal tender [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I used to be a bus conductor and I sold bus tickets. If bus tickets > is fare media, you could have fooled me. Exactly.
 Signature Skitt (AmE)
Paul Wolff - 11 Jul 2009 19:21 GMT >Steve Hayes wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Exactly. Then all who agree are agreed, and those who don't, aren't.
Fare was once the journey, then the payment made for the journey, then the paid-for passenger on the journey.
Journey/passenger/payment media: the definitive answer should come from the man on the Yorktown omnibus.
 Signature Paul
Skitt - 11 Jul 2009 19:33 GMT >> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> Even conceding that, there's only one fare medium in play, whatever >>>> it is called. I'm not so sure that anything other than legal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Journey/passenger/payment media: the definitive answer should come > from the man on the Yorktown omnibus. I still insist that the actual payment (fare) must be made with legal tender. A ticket or a token is merely a receipt for the payment and can be used as proof of the payment.
 Signature Skitt (AmE) too logical, again?
Mark Brader - 11 Jul 2009 19:41 GMT Steve Hayes:
>> I used to be a bus conductor and I sold bus tickets. If bus tickets >> is fare media, you could have fooled me. Well, that was in a foreign country. Maybe they speak English funny there. "Skitt":
> Exactly. I quote TTC Bylaw #1, which you may find posted in every vehicle on the system or at <http://www3.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/TTC_Bylaws.jsp>:
# 1.1 In this by-law, unless the context otherwise requires ... # # g) "fare media" means any ticket, token, pass, transfer or *other # fare media* issued by and acceptable to the TTC, and includes, # without limitation, an electronic fare card, any single or # multi ride ticket, a day pass, a family pass, a weekly pass, # a monthly pass, a U pass, or any period pass.
Emphasis added. In other words, tickets, tokens, passes, and transfers are examples of fare media.
(Yes, I know, the sentence is defining what "fare media" means for bylaw purposes. But it's defining it in terms of the standard meaning of "fare media", and that's the part I'm citing.)
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Steve Hayes - 11 Jul 2009 12:20 GMT > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed > >The friend who pointed out the wording to me disliked it for three >different reasons. I agreed with one of them. What happened to "ticket"?
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John Kane - 11 Jul 2009 20:48 GMT > > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed > > >The friend who pointed out the wording to me disliked it for three > >different reasons. I agreed with one of them. > > What happened to "ticket"? Tickets are something different?
Somehow "Remove sticker to validate pass" sounds a lot better.
Fare media should be more than one medium as far as I can see.
John Kane Kingston ON Canada.
John Varela - 12 Jul 2009 00:02 GMT > > > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Somehow "Remove sticker to validate pass" sounds a lot better. Yes it does, but I question "validate". "Activate" or some synonym would be better.
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Mark Brader - 12 Jul 2009 01:07 GMT Mark Brader (quoting):
> > > > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed John Kane:
> > Somehow "Remove sticker to validate pass" sounds a lot better. It works for me. John Varela:
> Yes it does, but I question "validate". "Activate" or some synonym > would be better. How is making it valid not "validating" it, then?
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Nick - 12 Jul 2009 12:03 GMT > Mark Brader (quoting): >> > > > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > How is making it valid not "validating" it, then? Because it's valid before you do it; it's just not ready for use. I think there's a difference, although I'm finding it hard to put my finger on exactly where it is. I feel that to validate something needs some sort of official action that adds to it (a stamp for example). To me, removing a sticker that's been put on top of something doesn't validate it. It's clearly necessary to make it usable though.
Just like breaking the seal on a bottle of milk, or removing an insulating cover from a battery: that makes it usable, but doesn't validate it. So in conclusion, I too prefer "activate" or similar to "validate".
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Mark Brader - 12 Jul 2009 13:00 GMT Mark Brader (quoting):
>>>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed John Kane:
>>>> Somehow "Remove sticker to validate pass" sounds a lot better. Mark Brader:
>> It works for me. John Varela:
>>> Yes it does, but I question "validate". "Activate" or some synonym >>> would be better. Mark Brader:
>> How is making it valid not "validating" it, then?
> Because it's valid before you do it; it's just not ready for use. No, it says right on it: "This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed."
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Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 18:03 GMT >Mark Brader (quoting): >>>>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >No, it says right on it: "This fare media is only valid if this sticker >is removed." The logic of that is that the sticker should be removed before the media is sold to the passenger, so they are not sold an invalid product. A traveller who parts with good money will want the real McCoy, not a dud. If he is subsequently found to have tampered with the invalidating sticker without due authority, he may find himself in trouble.
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tony cooper - 12 Jul 2009 19:27 GMT >>No, it says right on it: "This fare media is only valid if this sticker >>is removed." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >If he is subsequently found to have tampered with the invalidating >sticker without due authority, he may find himself in trouble. Credit cards mailed out have a sticker on them that says "To activate your (name of card) call this toll-free number from your home phone. (number) You must activate your (name of card) prior to use."
Not quite the same, but a means of activating.
 Signature Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 20:32 GMT >On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:03:28 +0100, Paul Wolff ><bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Not quite the same, but a means of activating. I understand that. It's the idea that the item sold is not valid that disturbs me. Not being valid implies being false or legally defective at point of sale.
 Signature Paul
Nick - 12 Jul 2009 21:40 GMT >>On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:03:28 +0100, Paul Wolff >><bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > disturbs me. Not being valid implies being false or legally defective > at point of sale. I'm right behind you on this one.
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tony cooper - 13 Jul 2009 02:42 GMT >>On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:03:28 +0100, Paul Wolff >><bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >disturbs me. Not being valid implies being false or legally defective >at point of sale. A quibble here...I tried to use a coupon to purchase something today. The coupon was rejected as "not valid". The reason turned out to be that the coupon is good between July 13 to July 19. It is not a fake or defective coupon; it is a coupon that was not valid on July 12.
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Frank ess - 13 Jul 2009 03:38 GMT >>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:03:28 +0100, Paul Wolff >>> <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > is not a fake or defective coupon; it is a coupon that was not > valid on July 12. Costco.
I bit that bait a time or two.
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R H Draney - 13 Jul 2009 06:33 GMT Frank ess filted:
>> A quibble here...I tried to use a coupon to purchase something >> today. The coupon was rejected as "not valid". The reason turned [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I bit that bait a time or two. More like Best Buy...in my experience, Costco's coupons are good for the better part of a month....
I have a handful of coupons for various discounts at Half Price Books that are good for one or two days each, stretching out over the next week or so....r
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John Varela - 13 Jul 2009 18:17 GMT > I have a handful of coupons for various discounts at Half Price Books that are > good for one or two days each, stretching out over the next week or so....r Y'all come back and see us again, y' hear now?
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Frank ess - 13 Jul 2009 21:02 GMT >> I have a handful of coupons for various discounts at Half Price >> Books that are good for one or two days each, stretching out over >> the next week or so....r > > Y'all come back and see us again, y' hear now? Take yer time goin', but harry up back.
Mark Brader - 12 Jul 2009 21:59 GMT Mark Brader (quoting):
> >>>>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed Nick Atty:
>>> ...it's valid before you do it; it's just not ready for use. Mark Brader:
>> No, it says right on it: "This fare media is only valid if this sticker >> is removed." Paul Wolff:
> The logic of that is that the sticker should be removed before the media > is sold to the passenger, so they are not sold an invalid product. No, the passenger validates it by removing the sticker. As I explained, the purpose is to protect the TTC from any malicious pass vendors who might return a used pass as unsold.
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Roland Hutchinson - 12 Jul 2009 22:40 GMT > Mark Brader (quoting): > > >>>>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the purpose is to protect the TTC from any malicious pass vendors who > might return a used pass as unsold. Kindly note, also, that there is a difference between "valid" and "validated".
There are all kinds of tickets that are _valid_ when issued, but still require to be _validated_ in order to be used by being stamped or time-stamped or "cancelled" by a person with a stamp or by inserting the ticket in the appropriate automatic machine. "Having your parking validated" is a common American experience. The store puts its rubber stamp on the ticket from the garage, and then your parking is free (or at least charged to the store at a discounted rate rather than to you directly at the full rate).
(Translating that last sentence into BrE is left as an exercise for the reader.)
 Signature Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
ke10@cam.ac.uk - 13 Jul 2009 18:05 GMT >> might return a used pass as unsold. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >There are all kinds of tickets that are _valid_ when issued, but still >require to be _validated_ in order to be used by being stamped or In France you have to compost your ticket, which I always find rather charming (except when I have a heavy suitcase and can't locate a composting machine).
Katy
Roland Hutchinson - 15 Jul 2009 05:02 GMT > >> might return a used pass as unsold. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > In France you have to compost your ticket, which I always find rather charming > (except when I have a heavy suitcase and can't locate a composting machine). In Germany, you have to devalue it.
 Signature Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Mark Brader - 15 Jul 2009 05:43 GMT Katy Edgcombe:
>> In France you have to compost your ticket, which I always find rather >> charming (except when I have a heavy suitcase and can't locate a >> composting machine). Roland Hutchinson:
> In Germany, you have to devalue it. Similarly, the *other* term used in France is "obliterating" it. Both make sense; you validate it for one trip, which consumes any value it might have had for future trips.
 Signature Mark Brader, Toronto "The English future is very confusing! msb@vex.net (This is not a political statement.)"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 22:55 GMT >Mark Brader (quoting): >> >>>>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >the purpose is to protect the TTC from any malicious pass vendors who >might return a used pass as unsold. I think we are trying to argue where we don't really know the full facts. (Substitute "I" for "we" if you like.) This fare media thing -- is it just a bought ticket, season or one-off, valid until some date, or is it like a London Oyster card, stuffed with credit value which is diminished with each journey? I can go with an Oyster card being a fare medium, because it is effectively a store of value and medium of exchange, as good as cash, albeit limited in those who will accept payment through it. A season ticket, in contrast, is just a travel pass for a period, valid after the fare has been paid, and cancelled (in the travel ticket sense: marked as having begun to be put to use) by removing a sticker (which I suppose cannot be re-stuck).
 Signature Paul
Mark Brader - 12 Jul 2009 23:36 GMT > I think we are trying to argue where we don't really know the full > facts. (Substitute "I" for "we" if you like.) I like. :-)
> This fare media thing -- > is it just a bought ticket, season or one-off, valid until some date... Yes. As I said at the start, it's a monthly pass. "Season ticket" to you.
 Signature Mark Brader, Toronto | "To err is human, but to error requires a computer." msb@vex.net | -- Harry Lethall
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 23:48 GMT >Paul Wolff writes: >> I think we are trying to argue where we don't really know the full [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yes. As I said at the start, it's a monthly pass. "Season ticket" to you. There you go, then.
<Folds up tent, etc., better fish to fry, gosh is it that late already?>
 Signature Paul
Chuck Riggs - 12 Jul 2009 16:20 GMT >> > > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Somehow "Remove sticker to validate pass" sounds a lot better. Since anyone who finds the form can remove a sticker from it, that is not a safe way to validate its authenticity.
>Yes it does, but I question "validate". "Activate" or some synonym >would be better. I have seen "activate" used in similar situations.
 Signature
Regards,
Chuck Riggs, who speaks AmE, lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Steve Hayes - 13 Jul 2009 05:46 GMT >> > This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Tickets are something different? How?
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mark Brader - 13 Jul 2009 18:22 GMT Mark Brader (quoting):
>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed Steve Hayes:
>>> What happened to "ticket"? John Kane:
>> Tickets are something different? Steve Hayes:
> How? Passes are good for unlimited travel in some time period; tickets are only good for one trip each. (On the TTC, that is. Some other systems use tickets valid for a specific number of trips, or for a specific total value.) Would they say "season ticket" where you are? Not here.
Here they also differ in physical form, but of course that's not significant. Multiple-trip fares are implemented for children, students, and seniors using cardboard tickets, for adults using metal tokens -- adult tickets were formerly available for those who preferred them, but were being counterfeited too much. Passes, on the other hand, are made of plastic like a credit card, except for the day pass, which is cardboard but much larger than a TTC ticket, with a scratch-off section to mark the date of use.)
 Signature Mark Brader "... Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan Toronto are Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan, msb@vex.net and I am not." -- Steve Summit
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Steve Hayes - 13 Jul 2009 22:10 GMT >Mark Brader (quoting): >>>>> This fare media is only valid if this sticker is removed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >use tickets valid for a specific number of trips, or for a specific >total value.) Would they say "season ticket" where you are? Not here. Durban had "travel at will" tickets for a period. So did London when i worked for London Transport - they called them Red Rover (and Green Rover) tickets -- red for the central buses and green for the country buses, and there was another one good for the tube as well.
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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