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Discussion Groups / English Usage / June 2009"One" and "some" as indefinite articles
I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose that "one" is not completely replacing "a(n)", but both are used with distinctive functions. Can anybody who knows please shed some light on this? f'up2aue > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > f'up2aue Do you have an example? "One" and "some" can be used for emphasis: "That's one fine-lookin' woman!" "Those are some bad [=good] tats [=tattoos]!" I think this is American colloquial and has been around for a long time. -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman filted: >> I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "on= >e" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >woman!" "Those are some bad [=3Dgood] tats [=3Dtattoos]!" I think this >is American colloquial and has been around for a long time. I remember being told that "some" (unstressed vowel, not to be confused with the identically-spelled adjective) was the plural indefinite article in English: Tom brought some board games to the family reunion. The other "some": Some board games require mathematical skills I don't have. ....r  SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Jerry Friedman (in alt.usage.english): > Do you have an example? > > "One" and "some" can be used for emphasis: "That's one fine-lookin' > woman!" "Those are some bad [=good] tats [=tattoos]!" I think this > is American colloquial and has been around for a long time. Yes, that's the kind of example I mean. But what is emphasized here? Joachime [sci.lang back in to provide more examples] > Jerry Friedman (in alt.usage.english): > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, that's the kind of example I mean. But what is emphasized here? The whole statement? The speaker's enthusiasm? I don't use this construction or hear it much, so I can't tell you much about it. -- Jerry Friedman > [sci.lang back in to provide more examples] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I don't use this construction or hear it much, so I can't tell you > much about it. What was its status before E. B. White (as in Strunk & White) made "Some Pig" the first message spun into Charlotte's web? (In this sense it's clearly _not_ an indefinite article.) > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > f'up2aue > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose > that "one" is not completely replacing "a(n)", but both are used with > distinctive functions. > > Can anybody who knows please shed some light on this? You will have to be more specific. That is, give examples. The idea of an "indefinite article" is a bit indefinite. I can easily imagine analyses where "some' is considered an "indefinite article". A long time ago Nida lumped all of "a", "another", "one", "each", "either", "neither" and "every" together as indefinite determiners with singular concordance to subject-head. In the same analysis he lumped "what", "whatever", "whatsoever", "which", "whichever", "whichsoever", "any", "some", "no" and "none" as indefinite determiners with singular or plural concordance to subject-head. "Whichsoever" is not something I would say. > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > f'up2aue I tried replying once but my reply seems to have disappeared. I will try again to present the same material. You need to gives examples. The question is too vague. The idea of an indefinite article is somewhat indefinite. It is easy to visualize analyses where "some" is an indefinite article. A long tome ago Nida defined a class of indefinite determiners. In a sub-class with "singular concordance to the subject-head" he listed - a, another, one, each, either, neither and every. In a different sub- class with "singular or plural concordance to subject-head" he listed - what, whatever, whatsoever, which, whichever, whichsoever, any, some, no and none (He lists numbers - two, three, etc as having plural concordance). "Whichsoever" is not in MY idiolect. > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > f'up2aue I have tried twice to reply, but my replies are not appearing. I'll try again tomorrow. > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > f'up2aue The problem seems to be in this post. My other posts are going into sci.lang normally. Is it the f'up2aue? > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose > that "one" is not completely replacing "a(n)", but both are used with > distinctive functions. > > Can anybody who knows please shed some light on this? I removed the letters at the end. Now I'll see what happens. > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose > that "one" is not completely replacing "a(n)", but both are used with > distinctive functions. > > Can anybody who knows please shed some light on this? In the examples you noticed is the "one" used with proper/person names as in "Isabel disguised herself as one John Fubbister", or is it used with any nouns? pjk > > I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" > > (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose > > that "one" is not completely replacing "a(n)", but both are used with > > distinctive functions. > > > > Can anybody who knows please shed some light on this? I'm not sure I understand what's being asked here, because "one" and "some" are naturally just as indefinite as "a(n)", so the replacement is perfectly reasonable and expected. > In the examples you noticed is the "one" used with proper/person > names as in "Isabel disguised herself as one John Fubbister", > or is it used with any nouns? This example nicely shows that "one" can apparently behave as a definite, too. Nathan >>> I notice that some in (Southern? American?) English usage the numeral "one" >>> (plural "some") are used in place of an indefinite article. I suppose [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > definite, too. > Nathan That's right, that's why I thought it might be useful to separate these two categories from each other to see which one of them is Joachim talking about. pjk > > In article <h2c4qk$of...@news.motzarella.org>, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > is Joachim talking about. > pjk The idea of an indefinite article is none too clear. Other analyses are possible. A long time ago Nida set up a class he called indefinite determiners. It included all of: a, another, one, each, either, neither, every (with singular concordance to subject-head) two, three, .... (all the numerals - with plural concordance) what, whatever, whatsoever, which, whichever, whichsoever, any, some, no, none (with singular or plural concordance). Whichsover does not exist in my idiolect. Joachim, as noted, needs to provide examples. DKleinecke (in alt.usage.english): > Joachim, as noted, needs to provide examples. That was one confusing posting of mine! Joachim |
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