 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009Sausage
Hi, In English to Persian dictionaries, the word "sausage" is translated into both "sosis" and "kaalbaas". However, these two Persian words refer to two different foods. I have given the links to the pictures of "sosis" and "kaalbaas" respectively. Would you please tell me what native Engish speakers refer to these two foods? Picture of "sosis": http://www.rajifoodind.com/images/dara_01.jpg Picture of "kaalbaas": http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg Farhad > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg Sosis (sausage shaped) refers to whole sausages. Kaalbaas is sliced sausage. Sausages sold whole in the UK are generally uncooked and comprise meat and unknown ingredients inside a length of animal intestine or plastic tubing. Sausages capable of being sliced (salami, for example) contain ingredients that have been treated (smoked, cured, etc.); these can also be bought whole, of course.  SignatureLes (BrE) Bows gracefully and awaits the arrival of the sausage experts. [...] >> Would you please tell me what >> native Engish speakers refer to these two foods? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > for example) contain ingredients that have been treated (smoked, cured, > etc.); these can also be bought whole, of course. I now realise I didn't answer your question: 1) A pound of pork sausages, please. 2) A quarter of that salami, please (pointing). Progressive members of the population might use metric units. AUE gourmets will probably know what the different types of sliced sausage are called and ask for them by name. SignatureLes (BrE) >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >http://www.rajifoodind.com/images/dara_01.jpg I'd call those sausages. >Picture of "kaalbaas": > >http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg I would not call that sausage. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk On 30 Jun 2009, Steve Hayes wrote >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I would not call that sausage. Fair enough; what *would* you call it? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>> Picture of "sosis": >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Fair enough; what *would* you call it? Cold meat. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I'd call those sausages. So would I. >> Picture of "kaalbaas": >> >> http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg > > I would not call that sausage. Neither would I. I'd call them luncheon meat, or sliced meat or cold cuts. Or I'd refer to them by a specific name like salami. There's an intermediate category that is often sold unsliced (something like the first type, in tubes but not in links) but cooked and/or preserved and therefore ready to eat alone or as part of a recipe - pepperoni, Polish sausage ... I'm sure there are hundreds of other types at any deli counter that I'm forgetting. There's 'kie?basa', too, I wonder if that's related to "kaalbaas", although the countries of origin are rather far apart. Cheryl > There's 'kie?basa', too, I wonder if that's related to "kaalbaas", > although the countries of origin are rather far apart. First thing I thought of. And I don't think distance would have much bearing. All it takes is one guy to bring back a kaalbaas from an expedition... Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump Quoth MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net>, and I quote: >> There's 'kie?basa', too, I wonder if that's related to "kaalbaas", >> although the countries of origin are rather far apart. > >First thing I thought of. And I don't think distance would have much >bearing. All it takes is one guy to bring back a kaalbaas from an >expedition... The missing link seems to be a Turkic word "külbasty", borrowed into all the Slavic languages to the north and west, and into Persian in the opposite direction. SignatureJames > Quoth MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The missing link That was a wiener! > seems to be a Turkic word "külbasty", borrowed > into all the Slavic languages to the north and west, and into > Persian in the opposite direction. May I assume "sosis" is from French "saucisse"? Unaccountably I can't find any recordings on the Web of that classic polka "I Lost my Kielbasa Down the Sewer". ("Kielbasa" is pronounced "kolbasi" here, but I can find even less under that spelling.) Apparently it's by the Dave Stacy Orchestra. -- Jerry Friedman > First thing I thought of. And I don't think distance would have much > bearing. All it takes is one guy to bring back a kaalbaas from an > expedition... I searched the word "kielbasa" in Wikipedia English. It's picture tells that what Kaalbaas in Persian refer to is not what Kielbasa in English refers to. There is a mistake in Wikipedia Farsi (Persian). If you search the word kaalbaas (کالباس) in it, you'll find the picture and definiton of Kielbasa, which is not what Persian speakers mean by Kaalbaas. FYI: k = ک aa = ا l = ل b = ب s = س Farhad > There is a mistake in Wikipedia Farsi (Persian). If you search the > word kaalbaas (˜ÇáÈÇÓ) in it, you'll find the picture and definiton of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > b = È > s = Ó Oh, boy! It seems AUE does not recognize Persian transcripts! Farhad >> There is a mistake in Wikipedia Farsi (Persian). If you search the >> word kaalbaas (˜ÇáÈÇÓ) in it, you'll find the picture and definiton [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Oh, boy! It seems AUE does not recognize Persian transcripts! I saw them rendered correctly in your original post. It's the newsreader settings, not AUE that decides how the letters are presented. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >>http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg > I'd call them luncheon meat, or sliced meat or cold > cuts. Or I'd refer to them by a specific name like salami. I searched the "cold cuts" in Google Image, and found a result below, which is exactly what we Iranians call "kaalbaas". Thanks Cheryl. http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1532/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1532R-10569.jpg Now the question is how common this terms is to native English speakers. In your responsesm please point to what national dialect of English you speak, like American, British, etc. > There's 'kie?basa', too, I wonder if that's related to "kaalbaas", > although the countries of origin are rather far apart. Kaalbaas doesn't sound to be originally a Persian word, although it's as common a word among Persian speakers as Hamburger is to English speakers. Farhad > > >>http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg > > I'd call them luncheon meat, or sliced meat or cold [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Farhad "Cold cuts" is surely an Americanism, or (in the idiom of this newsgroup) left-pondian. Us British speakers understand it, but not well enough to identify whether or not any particular specimen of sliced cooked meat would fall within its meaning. "Salami" and "German sausage" are our commonest general terms for large sausages, sold cooked and usually sliced. There isn't a common English word for them, because none of them are British. The nearest British equivalent is "meat loaf", although it is not particularly near. Like those continental varieties, it is made of more than one kind of meat, and sliced cold after cooking, but it is usually of a more crumbly texture, and cooked in a ball shape or basin shape, not an oversized sausage shape. -- > "Cold cuts" is surely an Americanism, or (in the > idiom of this newsgroup) left-pondian. Us British > speakers understand it, but not well enough to > identify whether or not any particular specimen of > sliced cooked meat would fall within its meaning. <snip> Let me throw in here that to some (including some dictionaries), "cold cuts" can include sliced cheeses. The term has always done that for me. SignatureSkitt (AmE) loves cheese >"Cold cuts" is surely an Americanism, or (in the >idiom of this newsgroup) left-pondian. Us British >speakers understand it, but not well enough to >identify whether or not any particular specimen of >sliced cooked meat would fall within its meaning. "Cold cuts" are anything you normally get pre-sliced from the supermarket deli counter, or prepackaged imitations of same. "Salami" (mass) is a cold cut; "a salami" (count) is not. "Deli meat" or "sandwich meat" is another term; cheese is also included in the category. When referring to a specific kind of meat, "sliced X" or "shaved X" (depending on the thickness) may be used, although for many people and products, it is unnecessary to specify: "honey-maple turkey" or "Black Forest ham" would not normally be purchased whole. (Indeed, most of these products are formed, reconstituted meats, shaped for easy slicing in the deli rather than normal appearance. See <http://www.ckffoods.com/c4.html> or <http://www.hormelfoods.com/brands/hormel/HormelAuthenticDeliMeats.aspx> for some standard shapes.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >"Salami" and "German sausage" are our commonest >general terms for large sausages, sold cooked and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >a more crumbly texture, and cooked in a ball shape >or basin shape, not an oversized sausage shape. Polony? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >> Picture of "sosis": > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > So would I. And I. > >> Picture of "kaalbaas": > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Neither would I. I'd call them luncheon meat, or sliced meat or cold > cuts. Or I'd refer to them by a specific name like salami. I would. They are slices from a large sausage. Salami is a kind of sausage. So is Bologna. After being sliced they become "cold cuts". If they haven't been cut then they aren't cuts. Sausages come in many shapes and sizes. Google on "sausage", then (at top left) click on "Images". You can even find "sausage" that has not been put in a casing but is made into patties, fried, and served for breakfast. See also "sausage gravy". SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > >> Picture of "sosis": > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > sausage. So is Bologna. After being sliced they become "cold > cuts". If they haven't been cut then they aren't cuts. I agree, but I'd probably call them lunch meat, or use the specific name. > Sausages come in many shapes and sizes. Google on "sausage", then > (at top left) click on "Images". This is another version of the sandwich question. I agree that salami and bologna are kinds of sausage. I wouldn't be surprised to see dictionary definitions of them that include "sausage". I'd be very surprised to hear an American say he or she didn't know what kind of sausage to buy when choosing among baloney, salami, and braunschweiger. I'd be equally surprised to hear an American refer to a salami sandwich as a sausage sandwich. On the other hand, if the subject is bratwurst or kielbasa or linguiça, I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear "I don't know what kind of sausage to buy," or "I had a sausage sandwich." > You can even find "sausage" that has not been put in a casing but is > made into patties, fried, and served for breakfast. See also > "sausage gravy". I'd call those sausage. The difference isn't the casing; I'd expect "sausage" to be made for serving hot, and "lunch meat" to be made for serving cold in slices for sandwiches. Yes, I've eaten both cold sausage sandwiches and hot fried baloney. When you order sausage on your pizza, you don't get pepperoni; you get Italian sausage meat. (Make mine the kind with fennel seed.) -- Jerry Friedman > You can even find "sausage" that has not been put in a casing but is > made into patties, fried, and served for breakfast. See also > "sausage gravy". On rec.food.cooking (in a rare thread about food) someone was harping on stupid Americans talking about "bulk sausage". His contention was that if it wasn't in casings, then it wasn't sausage. Reasoned discourse followed[1]. 1. Ha. I make a joke. Brian SignatureDay 149 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >> You can even find "sausage" that has not been put in a casing but is >> made into patties, fried, and served for breakfast. See also [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > 1. Ha. I make a joke. And a very funny one at that. But, is a sausage sausage when undressed? Chorizo and what we call Italian sausage are still called sausage when removed fromt the casings andcooked as "loose meat" to flavor potatoes or soup or stuffing (dressings or stuffings), aren't they? Then, "bulk" pork or breakfast sausage that has never seen the casing...well, if it tastes like sausage, let it be so. Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as sausage. But I have never heard if the contents fall apart when cut and served hot, or if the filling is scooped out with a spoon, or if, served cold, it is used to fill a hefty sandwich, in the same way as "meat loaf" may be used. Cold meat loaf is never, to my knowledge, served as "cold cuts". > But, is a sausage sausage when undressed? > Chorizo and what we call Italian sausage are still called sausage when > removed fromt the casings andcooked as "loose meat" to flavor potatoes > or soup or stuffing (dressings or stuffings), aren't they? Then, > "bulk" pork or breakfast sausage that has never seen the > casing...well, if it tastes like sausage, let it be so. I make something I'm pleased to call "sausage hotpot", but do it with something that we over here call "sausage meat" and which I'm guessing to be the same as "bulk sausage". If you can't find it, which rarely you can't, you can skin sausages, but it's not much fun skinning a raw sausage. > Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a > casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "meat loaf" may be used. Cold meat loaf is never, to my knowledge, > served as "cold cuts". Haggis falls apart and can be spooned out. I've made haggis sandwiches, but it doesn't stay in a slab the way meatloaf - or even cooked sausage meat - would. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu > Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a > casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > loaf" may be used. Cold meat loaf is never, to my knowledge, served as > "cold cuts". I have long believed that every culture, every country, every region has its own sausage, and I love them all. Haggis is one of the Scottish forms. Amongst many other sausages, Italians have salami, Spanish folk have chorizo. The French have many sausages, including the andouillette, which I can tolerate but my family can not. SignatureDavid >> Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a >> casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Spanish folk have chorizo. The French have many sausages, including > the andouillette, which I can tolerate but my family can not. Is that boudin? I can recall seeing Emeril (popular chef on US TV) on a cooking show visiting a pork butcher who made a white sausage and steamed it, saying that it was the origins of the andouille, which somehow, I suppose with the smoking, turns reddish, like chorizo. Anyway, there were people lined up outside the shop to get the freshly cooked boudin. No waiting for the andouille. (Pronounced like "ahn DOO ey") >>> Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a >>> casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >cooked boudin. No waiting for the andouille. (Pronounced like "ahn DOO >ey") Boudin blanc appears to me a bit like a sausage made from ground pork and not too much seasoning, and the ones I remember from decades ago in France were nice but nothing to write home about. I much prefer boudin noir, similar to our black pudding but with less fat. The smoked Cajun sausage here http://www.gumbopages.com/food/andouille.html sounds to be delicious and different from European andoulles and andoullettes which are made from tripe. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > I have long believed that every culture, every country, every region has > its own sausage, and I love them all. Haggis is one of the Scottish > forms. Amongst many other sausages, Italians have salami, Spanish folk > have chorizo. The French have many sausages, including the > andouillette, which I can tolerate but my family can not. Andouillette is just chitlins. Wait, that may not be a selling point... SignatureIt is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste of the nation. (David Sarnoff, CEO of RCA, 1939; in Stoll 1995) >> Now, as my final(?) post on this food topic, let me add that having a >> casing of animal intestines, it seems to me, qualifies haggis as [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >have chorizo. The French have many sausages, including the >andouillette, which I can tolerate but my family can not. A posh foreign name for tripe wrapped in tripe. Yummy! SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > There's 'kie?basa', too, I wonder if that's related to "kaalbaas", > although the countries of origin are rather far apart. Russian Empire and USSR on the border of Persia/Iran for perhaps a century? Soviet occupation of Northern Iran during WWII. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.rajifoodind.com/images/dara_01.jpg Varous kinds of sausages. These are small sausages, not generally designed to be cut up before cooking/serving. > Picture of "kaalbaas": > > http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg This is also a sausage, and resembles what I call "big balogna(baloney), designed to be sliced--as it is in your example. It really resembles the large "mortadella" sausages of Italy. Some large cured sausages, besides the "big baloney" are "ready-to-eat". Thuringer is one of those (a sausage) that I have frequently purchased in slices for "cold cuts", but there are others that are cooked while in a mold, and have never had a casing of edible cellulose (called plastic) or animal intestine. Ham loaf and olive&pimento loaf, shaved beef, turkey, ham or chicken are some of those, which may be shaped in rectangular or round forms. I suspect "head cheese"(sulse), and terrines of various meats (rabbit, chicken, duck) are also "loaf" meats sliced as cold cuts. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Farhad Both of those pictured are types of sausages. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of "sosis" and "kaalbaas" respectively. Would you please tell me what > native Engish speakers refer to these two foods? sausage Adrian > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.kishtpc.com/trade/Images%20News/kish%20island%20150.jpg Would that "kaalbaas" have been a "sosis" if it had been the whole uncut tube of meat? As others have said, such sausages (and other cold meats, such as turkey and roast beef) when sold thinly sliced like that are typically called "cold cuts" or "lunchmeat". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It is one thing to be mistaken; it is 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |quite another to be willfully Palo Alto, CA 94304 |ignorant | Cecil Adams kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.