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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009Does "fraught" have a present tense?
same with "disgruntled" (which probbaly doesn't have a non-negative verb "gruntle" either). Are there other verbs that are hardly ever used in the present tense? Also, I found a strange use of "fraught": start quote: The events in Budapest are fraught with cultural activities end quote. Quoth analyst41@hotmail.com, and I quote: >same with "disgruntled" (which probbaly doesn't have a non-negative >verb "gruntle" either). The present tense was "fraught", centuries ago when it was actually used. An example of the infinitive from Holinshed, 1577-87: "Cesar was constreined to fraught those [ships] that he could get with a greater burden." >Are there other verbs that are hardly ever used in the present tense? Well, we still use the past participle "numb" but no one around these parts uses the present tense of "nim" any more. >Also, I found a strange use of "fraught": > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >end quote. Someone has been using a dictionary carelessly. Hungarian phrase books are even more dangerous, I'm told.  SignatureJames James Hogg wrote, in <jt0s45d3kdboejgufpfpmu9899rtb0a3jr@4ax.com> on Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:23:21 +0200: > Quoth analyst41@hotmail.com, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Someone has been using a dictionary carelessly. Hungarian phrase > books are even more dangerous, I'm told. That depends on the cultural activities. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > James Hogg wrote, in <jt0s45d3kdboejgufpfpmu9899rtb0a...@4ax.com> > on Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:23:21 +0200: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > That depends on the cultural activities. Yes indeed. I've seen some that needed a HASMAT warning. Fraught didn't even enter into it. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > Someone has been using a dictionary carelessly. Hungarian phrase > books are even more dangerous, I'm told. Hovercrafts and eels, say no more. analyst41@hotmail.com wrote, in <8ed88cfe-2dc0-4b1d-9715-fc36e64ddfa8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> on Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:08:59 -0700 (PDT): > same with "disgruntled" (which probbaly doesn't have a non-negative > verb "gruntle" either). Tell that to P.G. Wodehouse. > Are there other verbs that are hardly ever used in the present tense? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > end quote. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >analyst41@hotmail.com wrote, in ><8ed88cfe-2dc0-4b1d-9715-fc36e64ddfa8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Tell that to P.G. Wodehouse. Exactly. "gruntled" is described by the OED as a back formation from "disgruntled" meaning Pleased, satisfied, contented. It is still in use. In my experience it is often used jocularly with the user apparently imagining that he or she has just invented it. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 04 Jul 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >> analyst41@hotmail.com wrote, in >> <8ed88cfe-2dc0-4b1d-9715-fc36e64ddfa8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.c [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > In my experience it is often used jocularly with the user > apparently imagining that he or she has just invented it. Some of these seem to have almost lost their jocularity over the past 30 or 40 years. I've certainly heard "couth" used without any apparent expectation of hilarity, and I think I may have encountered "kempt" used in a similar way. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>Nick Spalding wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > apparent expectation of hilarity, and I think I may have > encountered "kempt" used in a similar way. I don't think "kempt" is a back-formation. Isn't it an old form of "combed" (ON /kemba/, to comb)? I can't get through to OED to check... SignatureNoel On 04 Jul 2009, Ildhund wrote >>> Nick Spalding wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > "combed" (ON /kemba/, to comb)? I can't get through to OED to > check... I'm sure you're right that it wasn't a back-formation in times past; I thought, though, it that it fell so thoroughly out of language that its modern use started as a conscious and humorous back formation (rather than as the reintroduction of an archaic word). SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed Quoth HVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>, and I quote: >On 04 Jul 2009, Ildhund wrote > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >back formation (rather than as the reintroduction of an archaic >word). The OED has examples of "kempt" from the following years: c1050, c1380, 1513, 1601, 1863 (Carefully kempt tresses), 1867 1905 (their hair is neatly kempt), 1929 (The street paving ... looked marvellously smooth and kempt), 1946 (Gardens as well kempt as a short hair-cut), 1951, a1954, 1975 (Artificially beautified people looking kempt". It doesn't seem to have fallen out of the language at all. SignatureJames >>>Nick Spalding wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >"combed" (ON /kemba/, to comb)? I can't get through to OED to >check... OED: kempt, ppl. a. [f. KEMB v.] Of hair or wool: Combed. Also with advs., as well-kempt, etc. Cf. UNKEMPT. Also transf. kemb, v. Obs. exc. dial. [Com. Teut.: OE. c{ehook}mban = OS. kembian, kemmian (MDu. kemmen), OHG. chempan (MHG. kemben, kemmen, G. kämmen), ON. kemba (Da. kæmme):{em}O.Teut. *kambjan, f. kamb- COMB n.1 Now displaced by COMB v.1 (f. the n.; cf. Du. kammen, Sw. kamma), but partly surviving in the pa. pple. kempt, and the commoner unkempt. In ME. the vowel usually remained short, and the commonest spelling is kemb or kemm: forms indicating a long vowel are much less frequent. In later Sc. it is difficult to separate kemb or keme from kame = comb.] 1. trans. To disentangle and smooth (hair) by drawing a comb through it; to dress or trim (the hair, head, a person, etc.) with a comb; to curry (a horse): = COMB v.1 1. Now dial. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >On 04 Jul 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >30 or 40 years. I've certainly heard "couth" used without any >apparent expectation of hilarity, That is my experience too. OED of "couth": Obs. or only Sc. exc. in sense 6b. b. [Back-formation f. UNCOUTH a.] Used as a deliberate antonym of UNCOUTH a. 6: cultured, well-mannered, etc. Also absol. 1896 BEERBOHM in Pageant 230 The couth solemnity of his [Pater's] mind. .... 1968 Queens's Coll. (Oxf.) Rec. 12 The Waynflete building..is a scaleless slab of uncouth outline which academically couth details (inscription in Roman letters on the cornice, etc.) do not redeem. > and I think I may have encountered >"kempt" used in a similar way. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > OED of "couth": > > Obs. or only Sc. exc. in sense 6b. I read that differently. I thought they were saying that it was equivalent to one or the other sense of "couthie", which was Scottish, not that the sense of "couth" was Scottish. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Code should be designed to make it 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |easy to get it right, not to work Palo Alto, CA 94304 |if you get it right. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Some of these seem to have almost lost their jocularity over the > past 30 or 40 years. I've certainly heard "couth" used without any > apparent expectation of hilarity, The OED lists "couth" both as a back-formation from "uncouth" and also as the adjective that led to "uncouth", in two of the latter sense not marked as obsolete: 6. a. Kind, affable, agreeable, pleasant: said of persons and their actions; = COUTHIE 1. _Sc_. 7. Comfortable, snug, cosy; = COUTHIE 2. _Sc_. In neither sense, however, do they have citations past the eighteenth century, but it's possibly that it was preserved and either reinforced by (or rederived from) Scottish "couthie". > and I think I may have encountered "kempt" used in a similar way. They don't even treat "kempt" as a back-formation, and have citations flowing from 1050 to 1975. "Unkempt" is cited to 1742, with "unkembed" (marked "now rare") cited to 1390. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The whole idea of our government is 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |this: if enough people get together Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and act in concert, they can take |something and not pay for it. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>analyst41@hotmail.com wrote, in >><8ed88cfe-2dc0-4b1d-9715-fc36e64ddfa8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "gruntled" is described by the OED as a back formation from > "disgruntled" meaning Pleased, satisfied, contented. The OED list the following interesting sequence of words gruntle -> disgruntle -> disgruntled -> gruntled The first and last derivations treat the prefix "dis-" differently, the first as an intensifier[1], the last as a negation. So "to gruntle" is to complain, but "to be gruntled" is to be satisfied. [1] I would have called it a causative. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |All tax revenue is the result of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |holding a gun to somebody's head. Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Not paying taxes is against the law. |If you don't pay your taxes, you'll kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |be fined. If you don't pay the fine, (650)857-7572 |you'll be jailed. If you try to |escape from jail, you'll be shot. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | P.J. O'Rourke > same with "disgruntled" (which probbaly doesn't have a non-negative > verb "gruntle" either). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > end quote. Isn't 'fraught' an adjective these days? Therefore, it no longer has a present tense. There must be some very peculiar cultural activities in Budapest! Cheryl > same with "disgruntled" (which probbaly doesn't have a non-negative > verb "gruntle" either). According to the OED, "disgruntled" isn't a negative. The sense of "dis-" they point (sense 5) to isn't a negative, but rather an intensifier. "Gruntle" isn't marked as being obsolete. The first sense is "to utter a little or low grunt" and the second is "to grumble, murmur, complain". The active verb "disgruntle" is defined as To put into sulky dissatisfaction or ill-humour; to chagrin, disgust. As for the word in the subject ("fraught"), the OED says that it's obsolete except in the past participle. The original sense was to load a ship with cargo. > Are there other verbs that are hardly ever used in the present tense? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > end quote. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There are two types of people - 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |those who are one of the two types Palo Alto, CA 94304 |of people, and those who are not. | Leigh Blue Caldwell kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >As for the word in the subject ("fraught"), the OED says that it's >obsolete except in the past participle. The original sense was to >load a ship with cargo. I had always unthinkingly supposed that it was connected with "freight", and I'm pleased to see that the OED appears to support this. Fraught, freighted, weighed down (metaphorically): that's how I tend to use it. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>As for the word in the subject ("fraught"), the OED says that it's >>obsolete except in the past participle. The original sense was to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > this. Fraught, freighted, weighed down (metaphorically): that's how I > tend to use it. It's the same idea, but it appears to have a different etymology. According to them, "fraught" probably comes from Middle Dutch or Middle Low German "vracht", while "freight" probably comes from "vrecht", which they call a variant of "vracht". The noun came first, and the verb was "to fraught": c1400 MANDEVILLE (Roxb.) v. 15 þai wende gladly to Cipre to fraght þer schippes with salt. Shakespeare used it in _Cymbeline_: 1611 SHAKES. _Cymb_. I. i. 126 If after this command thou fraught the Court With thy vnworthinesse, thou dyest. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The reason that we don't have 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |"bear-proof" garbage cans in the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |park is that there is a significant |overlap in intelligence between the kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |smartest bears and the dumbest (650)857-7572 |humans. | Yosemite Park Ranger http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Not any more. According to the OED, the verb is "to fraught", meaning to load, but it is obsolete except for its past participle, which is also "fraught". My impression is that this word has become much more common in recent years. When I was a boy, a thing had to be fraught *with* something, but these days I am usually merely told that it is fraught, and it is up to me to imagine what with. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: To understand something means to have derived it from :|| ||: quantum mechanics, which nobody understands. :|| > Not any more. According to the OED, the verb is "to fraught", meaning > to load, but it is obsolete except for its past participle, which is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but these days I am usually merely told that it is fraught, and it is > up to me to imagine what with. Dutch still has the (dutch!) a sound, in 'vracht', which has become freight in English. Jan |
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