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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009"An argument accordingly rose up, that is, where we should start our career, a big city or small town."
Ladies and Gentlemen: ---------------- An argument accordingly rose up, that is, where we should start our career, a big city or small town. ---------------- How does this sentence read to the ears of native English speakers? Someone considered it odd and thus questioned about the correctness of this sentence on a forum discussing English. It is in a textbook published in Mainland China. I have no information about the writer(s) of the book, thus having no clue whether it was written by a Chinese, an American, a British or else. IMHO, I find "that is" unnecessary. However, with only "that is" omitted and without other adjustments made, "where" would refer to the preceding noun "an argument"; this is not the intended semantics. So I would rephrase it to: - An argument accordingly rose up--Where should we start our career, a big city or small town? - An argument accordingly rose up: Where should we start our career, a big city or small town? Member B suggested: - An argument accordingly rose up, which is where we should start our career, a big city or small town? Member C suggested: - An argument accordingly rose up, which is one about where we should start our career, a big city or a small town. Please shed some light. Sincerely, Tacia Quoth Tacia <outofdejavu@gmail.com>, and I quote: >Ladies and Gentlemen: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Please shed some light. I doubt if this was written by a native speaker of English. You could simply replace "that is" with "about": "An argument accordingly rose up about where we should start our career, a big city or small town." That makes the syntax more natural, but there are other problems with the sentence. I would replace "rose up" with "arose" (or some other verb). I would put in the preposition "in" before "a big city". And I would try to find out what the writer means by "where we should start our career" (who is we?), so that I could reword that in some way.  SignatureJames > Quoth Tacia <outofdejavu@gmail.com>, and I quote: >> Ladies and Gentlemen: >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > "where we should start our career" (who is we?), so that I could > reword that in some way. I agree, and I wonder whether there really was an argument or merely a discussion, or perhaps only a question was raised. Anyway, the original is thoroughly unidiomatic. SignatureSkitt (AmE) James Hogg wrote... > Quoth Tacia, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > we should start our career" (who is we?), so that I could reword > that in some way. What James said. I would also question "accordingly"; I can't imagine a reasonable context that would justify its use here. "We were hell-bent on having a row, and an argument accordingly started..." - i.e. in accordance with our intention. Perhaps "eventually" or "then" or "subsequently" is what was meant. SignatureNoel > James Hogg wrote... > > Quoth Tacia, and I quote: [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > started..." - i.e. in accordance with our intention. Perhaps > "eventually" or "then" or "subsequently" is what was meant. How about "In consequence an argument started...." I obtained this by trying to look up the Chinese for "accordingly" , but also found "en conséquence" on the page as the Frence translation >> James Hogg wrote... >> > Quoth Tacia, and I quote: [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > , but also found "en conséquence" on the page as the Frence > translation It's impossible to say without knowing what went before. "Accordingly" means that what happened did so in accordance with something; I still think it unlikely that this argument did arise in accordance with something, and that some other adverb would be more appropriate. "Consequently" would be right if the argument happened as a consequence of something else, and "subsequently" if it happened after something else. SignatureNoel > An argument accordingly rose up, that is, where we should start our > career, a big city or small town. > ---------------- > How does this sentence read to the ears of native English speakers? > . . . > It is in a textbook published in Mainland China. 1. It is unidiomatic to stay an argument rose up. We say either -- an argument started (or began, etc.) -- an argument arose . . . 2. In the second main clause plural WE suggests plural CAREERS (unless something earlier in the text confirms the discussants are pursuing the same pattern of career:) and we usually say or write: WHERE . . . IN a big city. 3. I should not trust a textbook with such a defective sentence. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > How does this sentence read to the ears of native English speakers? I'd find it unremarkable in a book from the 19th or early 20th century. ¬R >> How does [the subject] sentence read to the ears of native English >> speakers? > > I'd find it unremarkable in a book from the 19th or early 20th century. Just so: the flavor is clearly that of an era in which prose tended to the more languorous. Certainly the thoughts expressed can be cast in considerably terser form, just as a four-course lunch can be replaced by a Big Mac eaten standing up to perhaps the same nutritional result; but there is a pleasantly relaxed feel to the original (and it is certainly clear enough). Thus, to answer the actual question, it sounds quaint but quite serviceable. SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ >> How does this sentence read to the ears of native English speakers? > > I'd find it unremarkable in a book from the 19th or early 20th > century. I agree. Aside from the use of "accordingly", "career" is being used as we might use "tour" or "journey" today. > ---------------- > An argument accordingly rose up, that is, where we should start our > career, a big city or small town. > ---------------- An argument accordingly rose up, whether we should start our career in a big city or a small town. >> ---------------- >> An argument accordingly rose up, that is, where we should start our [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > An argument accordingly rose up, whether we should start our career in a > big city or a small town. As to this and the numerous other recastings: I think that the crux here is not whether other, more compact forms of the original can be constructed--very obviously they can--but whether the original expresses the intended thought with sufficient clarity and no overt error. I hold that it does, and moreover that it is reasonably typical of a certain style once common and popular, if no longer so. SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ >Ladies and Gentlemen: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Someone considered it odd and thus questioned about the correctness of >this sentence on a forum discussing English. We began to argue about whether it was better to start one's career in a big city or a small town. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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