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Vinny Burgoo - 11 Jul 2009 20:11 GMT Here's a link to an essay about Andy Murray and the decline of the West that's so perfect it's enough to make a grown man cry in public.
<http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/001957.php>
But that bit at the end:
'Theodore Dalrymple is a writer and worked for many years as an inner city and prison doctor. He is the author of the author of ...'
Quiet joke or simple editing error, in English usage? ('Theodore Dalrymple' is a pseudonym.)
-- VB OK, hands up, I just wanted people to read the thing. There is no obAUE here (apart from a missing hyphen). Move on, move on, please.
Paul Wolff - 11 Jul 2009 21:20 GMT >Here's a link to an essay about Andy Murray and the decline of the >West that's so perfect it's enough to make a grown man cry in public. A friend confided in me a couple of days ago that still he wept for his wife in the privacy of his kitchen, but that at her funeral last year he felt it improper to give in to his emotions like that.
><http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/001957.php> Today's decorum is letting it all hang out. Like your bull elephant, in fact. The swingometer of popular fashion gives the vet a black eye. Quoz! What a shocking bad hat!
>But that bit at the end: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >OK, hands up, I just wanted people to read the thing. There is no >obAUE here (apart from a missing hyphen). Move on, move on, please.
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Maria Conlon - 11 Jul 2009 21:58 GMT Paul Wolff wrote,in part:
> Today's decorum is letting it all hang out. Like your bull elephant, > in fact. The swingometer of popular fashion gives the vet a black eye. > Quoz! What a shocking bad hat! Okay, now where does "bad hat" come from? And what does it mean -- something like a gaffe?
The only time I've heard the phrase is at the end of each episode of "House" (a doctor/hospital series with the lead character being named Gregory House; House is played by Hugh Laurie).
What is actually said, (by a cartoon character) is: "That's some bad had, Harry."
Is the phrase originally from the UK?
And what about "quoz"?
 Signature Maria Conlon Absolutely On Topic
Mark Brader - 12 Jul 2009 01:06 GMT Maria Conlon (copyedited):
> The only time I've heard the phrase is at the end of each episode of > "House" (a doctor/hospital series...)... What is actually said > (by a cartoon character) is: "That's some bad hat, Harry." The little cartoon that Maria's talking about is the ____ of Bad Hat Harry Productions, one of the companies that produces House.
And say, what word or phrase goes in the blank, anyway? I'm talking about those little animated sequences that feature the company's name and often end with its logo. In a movie they come at the very start, in a TV show at the very end. I want to call them "logos" too, but to me that word implies something static that could go on a printed page. "Animated logo" doesn't cut it, as they may include things that aren't part of the logo itself.
Anyone know what they call them in the business?
 Signature Mark Brader, Toronto | "It was too crazy to be true, msb@vex.net | and too crazy to be false." --Tom Clancy
My text in this article is in the public domain.
R H Draney - 12 Jul 2009 02:34 GMT Mark Brader filted:
>The little cartoon that Maria's talking about is the ____ of Bad Hat >Harry Productions, one of the companies that produces House. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Anyone know what they call them in the business? "Emblem", maybe...I don't imagine anyone insists on "colophon"....
Attached: several variant versions of the "thing" of Mutant Enemy, the production company of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lypqzV2YFfs
....r
 Signature A pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this?
Amethyst Deceiver - 13 Jul 2009 16:28 GMT > Mark Brader filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lypqzV2YFfs Grr. Argh!
 Signature Linz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary
John O'Flaherty - 13 Jul 2009 20:47 GMT >Maria Conlon (copyedited): >> The only time I've heard the phrase is at the end of each episode of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Anyone know what they call them in the business? I don't, but "animated credit" might fit.
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Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 11:01 GMT >Paul Wolff wrote,in part: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >And what about "quoz"? As you know, I was writing (writely or wrongly) about habits that come into vogue, are taken up by the people, and pass away when their day is over. Perhaps the subject didn't hang particularly well with the piece cited by Vinny B, on modern public displays of emotion, but never mind that.
Charles Mackay was a Scot, a journalist, and a war correspondent for The Times during the American Civil War. He wrote a Dictionary of Lowland Scotch. In 1841 he published a book "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions". The title page included a quotation "Il est bon de connaître les délires de l'esprit humain. Chaque peuple a ses folies plus ou moins grossières." My poor interpretation, translating one word at a time, is "It is well to know the deliriums of the human spirit. Each people has its follies more or less crass."
In the second edition, published in 1852, Mackay extended the title with the words "and the Madness of Crowds", and picked a longer French quotation too, to add yet more weight. The author quoted was Boileau, which could be, but isn't, an interesting subliminal Froggy-English comment. (Comment?)
At some stage in the evolution of the book there was included a chapter "Popular Follies of Great Cities". Mackay soon gets into remarks on catch-phrases.
<http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/24518>
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Charles Mackay
[This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org]
Quote from Chapter 13:
London is peculiarly fertile in this sort of phrases, which spring up suddenly, no one knows exactly in what spot, and pervade the whole population in a few hours, no one knows how. Many years ago the favourite phrase (for, though but a monosyllable, it was a phrase in itself) was Quoz. This odd word took the fancy of the multitude in an extraordinary degree, and very soon acquired an almost boundless meaning. When vulgar wit wished to mark its incredulity, and raise a laugh at the same time, there was no resource so sure as this popular piece of slang. When a man was asked a favour which he did not choose to grant, he marked his sense of the suitor's unparalleled presumption by exclaiming _Quoz_! When a mischievous urchin wished to annoy a passenger, and create mirth for his comrades, he looked him in the face, and cried out _Quoz!_ and the exclamation never failed in its object. When a disputant was desirous of throwing a doubt upon the veracity of his opponent, and getting summarily rid of an argument which he could not overturn, he uttered the word _Quoz_, with a contemptuous curl of his lip, and an impatient shrug of his shoulders. The universal monosyllable conveyed all his meaning, and not only told his opponent that he lied, but that he erred egregiously if he thought that any one was such a nincompoop as to believe him. Every alehouse resounded with _Quoz_; every street-corner was noisy with it, and every wall for miles around was chalked with it.
But, like all other earthly things, _Quoz_ had its season, and passed away as suddenly as it arose, never again to be the pet and the idol of the populace. A new claimant drove it from its place, and held undisputed sway till, in its turn, it was hurled from its pre-eminence, and a successor appointed in its stead.
"_What a shocking bad hat!_" was the phrase that was next in vogue. No sooner had it become universal, than thousands of idle but sharp eyes were on the watch for the passenger whose hat shewed any signs, however slight, of ancient service. Immediately the cry arose, and, like the war-whoop of the Indians, was repeated by a hundred discordant throats. He was a wise man who, finding himself under these circumstances "the observed of all observers," bore his honours meekly. He who shewed symptoms of ill-feeling at the imputations cast upon his hat, only brought upon himself redoubled notice. The mob soon perceive whether a man is irritable, and, if of their own class, they love to make sport of him. When such a man, and with such a hat, passed in those days through a crowded neighbourhood, he might think himself fortunate if his annoyances were confined to the shouts and cries of the populace. The obnoxious hat was often snatched from his head and thrown into the gutter by some practical joker, and then raised, covered with mud, upon the end of a stick, for the admiration of the spectators, who held their sides with laughter, and exclaimed, in the pauses of their mirth, "_Oh, what a shocking bad hat!_" "_What a shocking bad hat!_" Many a nervous poor man, whose purse could but ill spare the outlay, doubtless purchased a new hat before the time, in order to avoid exposure in this manner.
The origin of this singular saying, which made fun for the metropolis for months, is not involved in the same obscurity as that which shrouds the origin of _Quoz_ and some others. There had been a hotly contested election for the borough of Southwark, and one of the candidates was an eminent hatter. This gentleman, in canvassing the electors, adopted a somewhat professional mode of conciliating their good-will, and of bribing them without letting them perceive that they were bribed. Whenever he called upon or met a voter whose hat was not of the best material, or, being so, had seen its best days, he invariably said, "_What a shocking bad hat you have got; call at my warehouse, and you shall have a new one!_" Upon the day of election this circumstance was remembered, and his opponents made the most of it, by inciting the crowd to keep up an incessant cry of "_What a shocking bad hat!_" all the time the honourable candidate was addressing them. From Southwark the phrase spread over all London, and reigned for a time the supreme slang of the season.
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Paul Wolff - 12 Jul 2009 11:50 GMT [Re: Extraordinary popular delusions]
>In the second edition, published in 1852, Mackay extended the title >with the words "and the Madness of Crowds", and picked a longer French >quotation too, to add yet more weight. The author quoted was Boileau, >which could be, but isn't, an interesting subliminal Froggy-English >comment. (Comment?) I was too unkind to M. Boileau. He was clearly a man of great sense and wisdom. I say this because I have just been sent an extract from a legal judgment in the English High Court, in which the judge remarks:
The secret of drafting legal documents was best described by Nicolas Boileau, who was not only a literary critic but a qualified lawyer: "Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément". What one conceives well can be stated with clarity and the words to say it come easily. We should all have that framed and displayed on our desks.
Can't argue with that. And no need to confine it to legal drafting.
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Maria Conlon - 12 Jul 2009 20:06 GMT Paul Wolff wrote, re "bad hat" and "quoz":
[...]
Thanks for all that information, Paul. I've read it and will read it again. Sometimes, re-reading helps me retain information.
(And sometimes, it doesn't. That's why I save certain posts to my document folder, as I will yours.)
 Signature Maria Conlon
Donna Richoux - 12 Jul 2009 13:02 GMT > Paul Wolff wrote,in part: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Okay, now where does "bad hat" come from? And what does it mean -- > something like a gaffe? "What a shocking bad hat" is apparently a meaningless nonsense phrase that (upper-class?) British people have said to each other for ages. An 1831 _Mirror_ at Google Books has a piece on its use and possible origins.
http://tinyurl.com/m6mmqf
or
http://books.google.com/books?id=0wwJAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA48&dq=%22bad+hat%22+d ate:1800-1955
As an Americanism, a "bad hat" is a bad person. The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang quotes _Dialectal Notes_ of 1914 as lumping it in with "bad penny" and "bad lot". I think I only encountered it in the children's book "Madeleine and the Bad Hat" by L. Bemelmans.
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Roland Hutchinson - 12 Jul 2009 20:49 GMT > "What a shocking bad hat" is apparently a meaningless nonsense phrase > that (upper-class?) British people have said to each other for ages. An > 1831 _Mirror_ at Google Books has a piece on its use and possible > origins. > > http://tinyurl.com/m6mmqf Who knew?
 Signature Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
the Omrud - 12 Jul 2009 23:12 GMT >> "What a shocking bad hat" is apparently a meaningless nonsense phrase >> that (upper-class?) British people have said to each other for ages. An [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Who knew? Not I.
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Maria Conlon - 13 Jul 2009 06:52 GMT >> Paul Wolff wrote, in part: >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > L. > Bemelmans. Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard "bad hat" meaning a bad person. (I'm not saying I definitely haven't, mind. It just doesn't sound familiar right now.) "Bad lot" is familiar, though, as is "bad penny." And I've also heard (and used) "bad one" to mean a bad person.
 Signature Maria Conlon
Mike L - 12 Jul 2009 22:41 GMT > >Here's a link to an essay about Andy Murray and the decline of the > >West that's so perfect it's enough to make a grown man cry in public. > > A friend confided in me a couple of days ago that still he wept for his > wife in the privacy of his kitchen, but that at her funeral last year he > felt it improper to give in to his emotions like that. [...]
But if a death is newsworthy, bereaved people now seem to think the media have a /right/ to make then talk about it. They should very likely be off somewhere crying in private instead of holding it back for the sake of a tv interview.
Murray's a particularly marked obnox, but not the first: I've always hated that "angry monkey" gesture that "sportsmen" make.
Which brings us to "sledging". In the early days of the art, an England player came to the Australian dressing room to complain about what somebody had said on the field of play. The Aus captain, notably proper in his behaviour, wasn't there, so Mr Vice, having heard the visitor out, turned to his team and demanded, "All right! Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?"
-- Mike.
Ray O'Hara - 11 Jul 2009 22:00 GMT > Here's a link to an essay about Andy Murray and the decline of the > West that's so perfect it's enough to make a grown man cry in public. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 'Theodore Dalrymple is a writer and worked for many years as an inner > city and prison doctor. He is the author of the author of ...' Ahh yes, the good old days. When one beat the wife and kids in the privacy of the home.
mb - 13 Jul 2009 07:28 GMT ...
> 'Theodore Dalrymple is a writer and worked for many years as an inner > city and prison doctor. He is the author of the author of ...' > > Quiet joke or simple editing error, in English usage? Does not have to be necessarily in *English usage (anyway, there won't be a need to apologize now that a Boileau quote appeared lower in the thread.
The quote is attributed to Alexandre Dumas the Father, who on Feb 2, 1852, is said to have stood up and triumphantly bowed to the cheering public. The people were calling for the author, at the end of the highly successful first showing of the theater version of "La dame aux camélias" ... by Dumas the Son.
When friends in his theater box objected to this, ehm, imposture, he answered: "Je suis l'auteur de l'auteur!"
Check the Dalrymple family tree.
JimboCat - 13 Jul 2009 21:27 GMT > Here's a link to an essay about Andy Murray and the decline of the > West that's so perfect it's enough to make a grown man cry in public. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 'Theodore Dalrymple is a writer and worked for many years as an inner > city and prison doctor. He is the author of the author of ...' Ursula K. LeGuin is, in fact, the author of "The Author of the Acacia Seeds And Other Extracts from the Journal of the Association of Therolinguistics"
It's quite an excellent little story, too, and totally on-topic for AUE.
http://interconnected.org/home/more/2007/03/acacia-seeds.html
Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- "I'm sorry if the plasticity and applicability of my conceptual apparatus overwhelms your limited intellect." [Tue Sorensen]
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