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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009It turns your collars
Hello: What is this gadget, the collar-turner, about? I know that there are factory machines that turn collars by attaching and stitching them to the shirt, however, these seem too complicated for an individual user. Is it just about ironing them and bringing them to the right shape, after laundry? ---- [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to work in London, Peter, I should strongly recommend you to get hold of a little gadget I make use of. I turns your collars, and reduces laundry bills by fifty percent.' Anthony Powell, A Dance to the Music of Time: Spring, p. 64 --- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > a little gadget I make use of. I turns your collars, and reduces > laundry bills by fifty percent.' Collars were separate from shirts in formal wear up to the middle of the 20th Century - they were buttoned onto the shirt. You had your collar washed more often than your shirt, presumably because your neck was more dirty. I'm not quite sure what a collar turner is, but I suspect it's a device for pressing and reforming your collar after it's been washed. This was probably a skilled job for laundrywomen, but here's a device to help you do it yourself.  SignatureDavid > > [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking > > through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dirty. I'm not quite sure what a collar turner is, but I suspect it's a > device for pressing and reforming your collar after it's been washed. That was my assumption. Thank you both. Marius Hancu > > > [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking > > > through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to > > > work in London, Peter, I should strongly recommend you to get hold of > > > a little gadget I make use of. I turns your collars, and reduces > > > laundry bills by fifty percent.' > > Collars were separate from shirts in formal wear up to the middle of the > > 20th Century - they were buttoned onto the shirt. You had your collar > > washed more often than your shirt, presumably because your neck was more > > dirty. I'm not quite sure what a collar turner is, but I suspect it's a > > device for pressing and reforming your collar after it's been washed. No, Powell's sentence makes clear this was an economy measure, viz. reduced laundry bills by half -- by turning the (separate) shirt collar inside out. Some collars looked more or less the same whichever way they were folded: thus (so long as not starched) they could be worn the standard way until visibly dirty, then worn inside out for some days longer, and sent to the laundry only when unwearable. London was a notoriously dirty place 1850-1980, hence rapidly soiled Londoners' collars and cuffs. (My father tried disposable paper collars in the 1950s, but I doubt these were either comfortable or a market success.) Collars were fastened to shirts not by buttons (above) but by collar studs, of two distinct types, front and back. A man who lost a collar stud and had no spare would be unable to dress himself correctly (as documented by P.G. Wodehouse et al.) Clothing reinforced the class system up to the Second World War, cf. military uniforms. Some officers' uniforms included shirts with (starched) collars as other gentlemen wore, but enlisted soldiers and sailors' shirts had no collars at all: tunics closed at the neck with hooks and eyes and sailors' uniforms had scooped necklines. Only the RAF (new in 1918) dressed ordinary airmen from the 1930s in starched collars and ties as everyday uniform. Most aircrew fought the Battle of Britain wearing starched collars and ties (cushioned by a silk scarf, because pilots needed to turn their heads constantly in all directions to stay alive.) The USAAC introduced into England "aircrew pattern shirts" with soft attached collars and the RAF later issued its own. (But these were prohibited in the officers' mess: after flying duties, you had to put on a starched collar and tie before any meal, except only 2 to 6 a.m. after night flying. But we had free laundry of course.) SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >>>> [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking >>>> through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (My father tried disposable paper collars in the 1950s, but > I doubt these were either comfortable or a market success.) Ah, that's better than my answer. But it casts doubt on the suggestion that you can halve your laundry bills, unless you have nothing other than collars washed. I have never seen a separate collar so they must have disappeared by the 50s, or were not used in rural Warwickshire, even by those who went to work in Coventry. SignatureDavid >>>>> [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking >>>>> through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >50s, or were not used in rural Warwickshire, even by those who went to >work in Coventry. I have worn separate collars. It might have been as part of best uniform when in the Royal Air Force. You can halve the laundry bill by turning the collar over when the uppermost side is soiled and then wearing it with the clean underside now uppermost. It would not need to be laundered when only one side was dirty. It would be laundered after being worn twice rather than once. Collars, particularly stiff, perhaps starched ones, would be laundered separately from the shirts. I have never heard of a collar turning gadget. I assume that it is a device for turning a stiff collar over and putting it into the correct shape for wearing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachable_collar The wing collar pictured would not be suitable for turning as it has lettering on the inside. That article has a link to a description of the US origin of the detachable collar: http://www.ravistailor.com/customtailor/A_General_History_Of_Detachable_Collars_ On_Custom_Made_Business_And_Formal_Shirts.htm or http://tinyurl.com/ltusja A General History Of Detachable Collars On Custom Made Business And Formal Shirts .... Mrs. Montague, tired of washing her husband´s shirts because only the collars were dirty decided one day to snip off a collar, wash it, and sew it back on. Mr. Montague, it´s written, agreed to the experiment, and in 1827, the first detachable collar was made at their home at 139 Third Street. .... Orlando Montague, the first person to wear a detachable collar, soon began his own collar factory with business partner Austin Granger in 1834. The Montague & Granger collar factory began at 222 River Street. .... The original reason that Mrs. Montague created the detachable collar was to clean it separately from the shirt. With the increase production of collars came the need to wash the thousands of collars being produced. In 1835, Independence Starks, entered the collar making business, and also created the first Troy Laundry at 66 North Second Street (Fifth Avenue today) where he washed not only his own collars but those of competitors as well. Many years later the laundry industry would spark the creation of the first female union in the country. .... http://www.archivist.f2s.com/bsu/Miscellany/eton/eton-notes.htm Some notes on dress at Eton College .... The unusual collar and tie worn at Eton need a little more explaining. The broad collar named after the school is no longer worn by any of the pupils. The Arundel collar which is now universal is a small gentleman's collar, attached with studs at front and back. It is starched and very stiff and most boys will own about five. The laundry collects them to wash and restarch once a week from a boy's house (along with his other washing) using machines that date back almost to the second world war. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >http://www.archivist.f2s.com/bsu/Miscellany/eton/eton-notes.htm > > Some notes on dress at Eton College > .... The Eton pupil who wrote this should dye of embarrassment. "With no official dress regulations, it was the boys who took it upon themselves to die their garments black out of respect and reports say that within a few years the old bright colours had returned. It is only one hundred years later, in 1920, that today's cut of black tailcoat became standard." SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida the Omrud wrote... > I have never seen a separate collar so they must have disappeared > by the 50s, or were not used in rural Warwickshire, even by those > who went to work in Coventry. See http://www.fogeyunlimited.co.uk/acatalog/Luke_Eyres_Stiff_Collars.html . No, I don't suppose these were worn down at t'mill in the 1950s, but my father had a wide selection of separate shirts and collars then. Most of the men in the village didn't bother with collars except on Sundays and state occasions, like the annual day-trip to Cleethorpes. Requiring young officers to wear a patrol collar (the penultimate one on that page) with their No. 1s ("blues") ranks up there with waterboarding. It's bearable on parade where you're holding your head up, shoulders back and all that, but trying while wearing one to consume a bowl of soup in the mess is agony, unless you happen to be a 'gentleman with a longer neck' (see the Cameron). Browsing that site brought back lots of memories. SignatureNoel > > > > [Farebrother] strolled across the room to where Peter was looking > > > > through some gramophone records, and I heard him say:'When you come to [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > and tie before any meal, except only 2 to 6 a.m. after night flying. > But we had free laundry of course.) Wow, amazing experience and memory:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > a little gadget I make use of. I turns your collars, and reduces > laundry bills by fifty percent.' He is, possibly, using 'gadget' as a jocular metaphor for 'wife'. 'Turning a collar' was an old-fashioned economy with worn shirts, unpicking the collar and sewing it on again the other way round, practised only by the wives of impoverished clerks and the like. Richer people wore shirts with a separate collar, attached to it by a 'collar stud'. When the collar became too shabby, it could be discarded and replaced, while the shirt continued to be serviceable. -- >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > became too shabby, it could be discarded and replaced, > while the shirt continued to be serviceable. But why would that reduce one's laundry bills? Here is a "collar turner": https://usa-dealer.3dcartstores.com/COLLAR-TURNER_p_600.html and another which appears similar: http://www.westchestersewing.com/misc/belt_turn.htm I have no idea how they work though. SignatureDavid >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >I have no idea how they work though. I'm sure I remember that my mother would sometimes 'turn the collar' on one of my older shirts (1950s), so maybe it's more 'oldish-fashioned' than 'old-fashioned. This was indeed to get the most out of the shirt, and was carried out when the outside fold (at the back of your neck) was starting to show signs of fraying. As stated above, the collar was carefully unpicked, and sewn back on the other way round (or, maybe more accurately, 'the other way up'). I seem to recall that, after the collar had been turned, it didn't seem to fit correctly until the new configuration had been 'run in' (several cycles of wearing, washing and ironing). SignatureIan Ian Jackson wrote, in <xT38HfNynjXKFw8V@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> on Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:20:02 +0100: > >>> Hello: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > to fit correctly until the new configuration had been 'run in' (several > cycles of wearing, washing and ironing). My cleaning lady (of 17 years standing) took it into her head to do that to one of mine that she had noticed while ironing only a couple of years ago. She took it home with her and brought it back next week. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >I have no idea how they work though. Detachable collars had sharp points at the bottom corners, so to turn them inside out you needed something sharp to poke the corners out. But two opposing spikes like the second one has? No idea. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > Detachable collars had sharp points at the bottom corners, so to turn > them inside out you needed something sharp to poke the corners out. > But two opposing spikes like the second one has? No idea. Weren't some detachable or even sewn collars made of some plasticky stuff? Easy to clean. Marius Hancu >> Detachable collars had sharp points at the bottom corners, so to turn >> them inside out you needed something sharp to poke the corners out. >> But two opposing spikes like the second one has? No idea. > > Weren't some detachable or even sewn collars made of some plasticky > stuff? Easy to clean. Celluloid. It would make me slightly fearful of explosions in the neck area: http://www.riverjunction.com/catalog/mensfurn/collars.html SignatureDavid > >> Detachable collars had sharp points at the bottom corners, so to turn > >> them inside out you needed something sharp to poke the corners out. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Celluloid. It would make me slightly fearful of explosions in the neck > area:http://www.riverjunction.com/catalog/mensfurn/collars.html Exactly. Not sure why I have a reservation to use "celluloid" for anything not transparent:-) Marius Hancu >>>> Detachable collars had sharp points at the bottom corners, so to turn >>>> them inside out you needed something sharp to poke the corners out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Not sure why I have a reservation to use "celluloid" for anything not > transparent:-) If early movie film were entirely transparent, then early movies would have been a little dull. SignatureDavid |
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