 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009London slang
It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: Dutch) subtitles. My question is: is this film understandable for the average Englishman or even the average Londoner, as it is so full of (rhyming) slang. Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions like: "iron's gear" (gay clothing) "don't get lemon"' (don't get smart) "having a bubble" (having a laugh") "the canister" (the head) "f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) '"gaff" (home or pub) in and outside London? If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you think: speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to many geezer films. Thanks in advance for any views on this. Nick On 20 Jul 2009, Nick wrote > It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film > like "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "iron's gear" (gay clothing) Not heard that one. > "don't get lemon"' (don't get smart) > "having a bubble" (having a laugh") I'd probably understand those when spoken in context. > "the canister" (the head) > "f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) > '"gaff" (home or pub) I'd say those are all very well-known. > in and outside London? I've lived in Hampshire for 20 years, but in a town with a lot of ex-Londoners. > If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you > think: speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to > many geezer films. The latter; it would sound terribly affected.  SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed [...] So ... which books do you all recommend with current London slang? Thanks. Marius Hancu Try the website http://www.urbandictionary.com/ >[...] > >So ... which books do you all recommend with current London slang? > >Thanks. >Marius Hancu (Top-posting corrected) > >[...] > > > >So ... which books do you all recommend with current London slang? > Try the website http://www.urbandictionary.com/ Except that's not really London slang, it's from all over the place. http://www.londonslang.com/ might be better. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Try the websitehttp://www.urbandictionary.com/ > >So ... which books do you all recommend with current London slang? I'm talking about books written in this slang, not about it. Marius Hancu > > Try the websitehttp://www.urbandictionary.com/ > > > >So ... which books do you all recommend with current London slang? > > I'm talking about books written in this slang, not about it. Do people who speak that slang write books? I tried searching on <novel London slang> and got a few suggestions. The reviewers say that the dialect was distracting or difficult: The Book of Dave, by Will Self Little soldier, by Bernard Ashley Incendiary, by Chris Cleave You can look through the reviews yourself. Maybe these will prompt someone here to suggest a novel that they know. I've seen Will Self on panel shows. Quite morose and sarcastic. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > I've seen Will Self on panel shows. Quite morose and sarcastic. Without the benefit of meeting Will Self and analysing his behaviour over a lengthy period, I am unable to decide whether he is a man of significant talent who finds it difficult to cope with the fact that the rest of the world is far too slow for him, or a supercilious git. I do like his writing though. He wrote and read one of the most powerful 15 minute radio pieces I have ever heard, about the final day of his mother's life. She was being shunted along hospital corridors and through tunnels between different buildings; he was justly and righteously furious at the sheer indignity of it. SignatureDavid >>> Try the websitehttp://www.urbandictionary.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > Do people who speak that slang write books? The film quoted, 'Football Factory', is based on a novel by John King. It's part of a trilogy based around football hooligans in London, Chelsea supporters, and mainly written in the first person from the pov of a Jack the Lad brawler and womaniser. Lots of argot and dialect to enjoy but I didn't find the novels that interesting. I don't know how far King lived the life of his characters. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > The film quoted, 'Football Factory', is based on a novel by John King. It's > part of a trilogy based around football hooligans in London, Chelsea > supporters, and mainly written in the first person from the pov of a Jack > the Lad brawler and womaniser. Lots of argot and dialect to enjoy Already ordered the book. Will enjoy what I can:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu >> The film quoted, 'Football Factory', is based on a novel by John King. >> It's part of a trilogy based around football hooligans in London, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Will enjoy what I can:-) Most of the film seems to be on YouTube if you want to listen to English as she is spoke. SignatureLes (BrE) > I tried searching on <novel London slang> and got a few suggestions. > The reviewers say that the dialect was distracting or difficult: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I've seen Will Self on panel shows. Quite morose and sarcastic. Thank you, Donna. I've just ordered the book on which the movie was made. Will have a look at your list too. Marius Hancu > It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like > "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: > Dutch) subtitles. My question is: is this film understandable for the > average Englishman or even the average Londoner, as it is so full of > (rhyming) slang. For the record - I haven't see the film. > Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions > like: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "having a bubble" (having a laugh") > "the canister" (the head) All of the above are rather suspect. I don't recognise them at all. By "head", do you mean the Navy word for "lavatory"? > "f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) That's clear, but it's a bit boring - do you understand that "don't make me laugh" is not asking to remain unamused. It's accusing the other person of trying to get something past the speaker. > '"gaff" (home or pub) That one is well known - it only means "home" to me. > in and outside London? I am not a Londoner. > If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you think: > speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to many geezer > films. The latter. SignatureDavid Thanks for answering. By head I mean just the upper part of the body. >> It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like >> "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >The latter. On 20 Jul 2009, the Omrud wrote >> It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film >> like "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > All of the above are rather suspect. I don't recognise them at > all. By "head", do you mean the Navy word for "lavatory"? I'm sure I've heard "canister" for one's head. I assumed it was probably military slang -- equating one's skull to a shell case or something -- but I could be entirely wrong. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 20 Jul 2009, the Omrud wrote > > I'm sure I've heard "canister" for one's head. Eric Partridge dates it c. 1790 and gives an example from (William?) Moncrieff - 1821 - "I've nobbed 'im on the canister" - >> It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like >> "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > That one is well known - it only means "home" to me. I no longer use the word, but I remember "gaff" as having a rather wider meaning - "place", in the sense residence or place of work or just where they hang out, although some sort of "ownership" is implied as in the case of "my pub". SignatureRob Bannister > Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions > like: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > in and outside London? Out of context I wouldn't understand any of these. In context I might. I haven't lived in London since I was one year old. I have lived in England for 22 years, so I'm a bit out of touch. Signatureathel >> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are >> expressions like: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I haven't lived in London since I was one year old. I have lived in > England for 22 years, so I'm a bit out of touch. Mmm. That explains everything. SignatureRay UK > [ ... ] >> I haven't lived in London since I was one year old. I have lived in >> England for 22 years, so I'm a bit out of touch. > > Mmm. That explains everything. Correction. "have" was supposed to be "haven't". As it was it wasn't too intelligible, so I'm not sure that it explained much, let alone everything. Signatureathel > Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions > like: I am from Camberwell. > "iron's gear" (gay clothing) "iron" = "iron hoof" = "poof" (abusive slang for male homosexual) so that phrase is decodable. > "don't get lemon"' (don't get smart) Never heard of this one. > "having a bubble" (having a laugh") Very familiar > "the canister" (the head) Never heard this before. > "f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) Very common. It doesn't mean "don't make me laugh" - it means "I don't like the idea of doing that" Person 1: Have you thought of joining the army? Person 2. What? Spend all my time marching up and down and maybe get shot at? f.ck that for a laugh! > '"gaff" (home or pub) Extremely common > If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you think: > speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to many geezer > films. The latter. It would be very comical, especially if you have a heavy Dutch accent. >> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions >> like: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >The latter. It would be very comical, especially if you have a heavy >Dutch accent. 'f cose I'd speak wiv a 'eavy Cockney accent! These geezer movies are widely considered to be a load of bollocks, especially the ones directed by that Guy Ritchie w.nker, so coming over as heavily influenced by them might make people think you are at worst stupid and at best undiscriminating. That Danny Dyer is a right tosser. >These geezer movies are widely considered to be a load of bollocks, >especially the ones directed by that Guy Ritchie w.nker, so coming >over as heavily influenced by them might make people think you are at >worst stupid and at best undiscriminating. That Danny Dyer is a right >tosser. Well, up to now I have only seen The Football Factory and Rise of the Footsoldier, which is indeed one of the stupidest films I have ever seen. But The Football Factory, whatever you can say about the absence of a moral stance against violence or the glamorising of it, is interesting to a NNS from the language point of view. >>> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions >>> like: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > 'f cose I'd speak wiv a 'eavy Cockney accent! Harder than it seems - Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins made a dreadful attempt. It's possible they make some of these things up. I suspect 'Minder' of having contributed some made up slang. SignatureMike Page Google me at port.ac.uk if you need to send an email. [...] > It's possible they make some of these things up. I suspect 'Minder' of > having contributed some made up slang. You're 'avin' a giraffe, chapman? -- VB >> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions >> like: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> "don't get lemon"' (don't get smart) lemon = tart = smart ? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions >>> like: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >lemon = tart = smart ? Excellent guess. However: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/l.htm lemon Noun. 1. A fool, idiot, objectionable person. 2. A lump of excrement. Rhyming slang on lemon curd, meaning 'turd'. [1960s] It's completely new to me. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson (BrE) set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >>lemon = tart = smart ? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It's completely new to me. Being sweet pure and innocent I too had plumped for the tart, though I understand some of the negative connotations of "lemon" come from its use on the original fruit machines where it was always a losing symbol. New rhyming slang expressions seem to come along now and again. How far back does "porkies" (= pork pies = lies) go? And what about "merchant" (for "merchant banker")? Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Peter Duncanson (BrE) set the following eddies spiralling through the > space-time continuum: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > understand some of the negative connotations of "lemon" come from its use > on the original fruit machines where it was always a losing symbol. In my 1950s London childhood "Don't be a lemon" was a common expression. It had never occurred to me that it might be rhyming slang. [..] SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Peter Duncanson (BrE) set the following eddies spiralling through the >> space-time continuum: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >In my 1950s London childhood "Don't be a lemon" was a common >expression. It had never occurred to me that it might be rhyming slang. What about "lemon fool" (a pudding)? A least, it's polite. <http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/blackberryandlemonfo_7392.sht ml> <http://dairyfreecooking.about.com/b/2009/03/20/a-fool-for-lemons-dairy-f ree-lemon-fool-recipe.htm> SignatureIan >New rhyming slang expressions seem to come along now and again. How far back >does "porkies" (= pork pies = lies) go? The first quotation in the OED is: 1985 J. SULLIVAN Only Fools & Horses (1999) I. 4th Ser. Episode 2. 217 Rodney. You don't believe all them stories do you? Del. What? Do you reckon they're porkies? That's the sort of entry that might have come via the BBC's Balderdash & Piffle series, but apparently it didn't: http://www.oed.com/bbcwords/ > And what about "merchant" >(for "merchant banker")? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>New rhyming slang expressions seem to come along now and again. How far back >>does "porkies" (= pork pies = lies) go? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 217 Rodney. You don't believe all them stories do you? Del. What? Do > you reckon they're porkies? David Jason's Frost character also uses the term a lot. SignatureThe three-martini lunch is the epitome of American efficiency. Where else can you get an earful, a bellyful and a snootful at the same time? [Gerald Ford, 1978] In message <21fa0d9a-f10a-43ad-9008-fc7bf46c9425@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, contrex <mike.j.harvey@gmail.com> writes >> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are expressions >> like: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Never heard of this one. Lemon tart = smart? >> "having a bubble" (having a laugh") > >Very familiar FWIW, in NE England, "to bubble" means "to cry". >> "the canister" (the head) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Very common. It doesn't mean "don't make me laugh" - it means "I don't >like the idea of doing that" Also "f.ck that for a game of soldiers" = "I don't >like the idea of doing that" or "I'm not going to do that", "You can stick it (where the sun doesn't shine)" etc. >Person 1: Have you thought of joining the army? >Person 2. What? Spend all my time marching up and down and maybe get >shot at? f.ck that for a laugh! Maybe that is where the "game of soldiers" expression originally came from! >> '"gaff" (home or pub) > >Extremely common Only home. >> If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you think: >> speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to many geezer >> films. > >The latter. It would be very comical, especially if you have a heavy >Dutch accent. Oh, I don't know. Lots of people do learn to speak English "like a native", but retain their strong foreign accent. [Maurice Chevallier syndrome] SignatureIan > Oh, I don't know. Lots of people do learn to speak English "like a > native", but retain their strong foreign accent. [Maurice Chevallier > syndrome] That's not quite what I meant. It's funny if they speak very slangily (cf. Harry Enfield's "Stavros") >> Or to be more specific: how widely understood and used are >> expressions like: [...] >> "f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) > Very common. It doesn't mean "don't make me laugh" - it means "I > don't like the idea of doing that" > Person 1: Have you thought of joining the army? > Person 2. What? Spend all my time marching up and down and maybe get > shot at? f.ck that for a laugh! Was that always known to be the authentic expression, and was "stuff that for a lark" always understood to be a euphemism? I used to come across the latter expression in novels, occasionally. I knew it was wrong, but I could never keep from thinking of tiny, tiny croutons. [...] > It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like > "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > in and outside London? I only understand the last two, and I would never use either. I would have expected "having a bubble" to mean "having an argument or fight". SignatureRob Bannister 31 years England 38 years Australia >> It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like >> "The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >I only understand the last two, and I would never use either. I would >have expected "having a bubble" to mean "having an argument or fight". Rhyming slang: bubble bath, pronouced as bav rhymes with laugh. Thanks for all the aswers! Nick >It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like >"The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Nick >It's no surprise that for a non native English speaker a film like >"The Fooball Factory" is impossible to understand without (in my case: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >"having a bubble" (having a laugh") >"the canister" (the head) Never heard them. They sound like someone trying WAY too hard to make their film sound "colourful" and "authentic". >"f.ck that for a laugh" (don't make me laugh) Sure that's not "f.ck that for a larK"? A fairly common expression (often with a different verb). >'"gaff" (home or pub) Home yes; pub no. >in and outside London? I'm not a Londoner. >If I as a foreiger would use these expressions, what would you think: >speaks informal english very well, or: has seen way to many geezer >films. Define "geezer". It seems to mean different things on opposite sides of the pond nowadays. But - no, >Thanks in advance for any views on this. > >Nick > Define "geezer". It seems to mean different things on opposite sides > of the pond nowadays. the term "geezer film" has a fairly well understood meaning. Such a film has a collection of more or less fake Cockneys who chunter on in rhyming slang and make prats of themselves. Particularly annoying examples are various films made by Guy Ritchie. >> Define "geezer". It seems to mean different things on opposite sides >> of the pond nowadays. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >rhyming slang and make prats of themselves. Particularly annoying >examples are various films made by Guy Ritchie. I hadn't heard the term, but I'd already guessed that. Sure. They're as "mockney" in their own way as anything that ever came out of Ealing. But in the US, to judge by instances I've come across of late, "geezer" seems to have acquired the meaning of "old man" (hmm - man? Can a woman be a geezer? Don't know - anyone Leftpondian care to enlighten?). Whereas in the UK, "geezer" is pretty much the same as "bloke" and doesn't say much about the age of the person. Cheers - Ian >>> Define "geezer". It seems to mean different things on opposite sides >>> of the pond nowadays. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >enlighten?). Whereas in the UK, "geezer" is pretty much the same as >"bloke" and doesn't say much about the age of the person. Yes. We have previously discussed "bloke", and maybe "geezer". The AmE use of "bloke" is not always the same as the BrE. The Quick definition at OneLook gives a definition which seems to be how Americans understand the word: http://www.onelook.com/?w=bloke&ls=a noun: a man who is (usually) old and/or eccentric The BrE meaning is defined at: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/bloke?view=uk bloke noun Brit. informal a man. There are no connotations of oldness or eccentricity. However see the adjective "blokeish". OED: colloq. (chiefly Brit.). Forms: 19- blokeish, blokish. [< BLOKE n. + -ISH1.] Characteristic of a man, or of men socializing together; straightforward, affable, bluff, down-to-earth (or keen to appear so); typically or stereotypically male in behaviour or interests. Freq. also depreciative (esp. with reference to the behaviour of all-male social groups): chauvinistic, boorish, swaggery. And then for "geezer": http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/g.htm geezer Noun. 1. General term for a man, however the word can imply more specific qualities, see version 2. 2. A confident man with masculine qualities, very much 'laddish' in nature and respected. * Also occasionally spelt geeza. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Define "geezer". It seems to mean different things on opposite sides >>>> of the pond nowadays. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >There are no connotations of oldness or eccentricity. I seem to recall that this came up when an American asked about Amethyst Deceiver's (Linz) nickname for her son: YoungBloke. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.