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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009English educational system
I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at least 51 different systems, but how about the English- Are there anybody here who can explain how the school system in the U.K. is from kindergarden to comprehensive school and to the A-level college (private and public)? Moreover, how many different school systems (or educational systems) are in the U.K.? > I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at least > 51 different systems, but how about the English- > Are there anybody here who can explain how the school system in the U.K. > is from kindergarden to comprehensive school and to the A-level college > (private and public)? Moreover, how many different school systems (or > educational systems) are in the U.K.? That's all you wanted to know? Jan >> I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at >> least [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That's all you wanted to know? Yes - and, of course, how the general educational system is build up in the UK > >> I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at > >> least [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yes - and, of course, how the general educational system is build up in > the UK I used to be a college and school governor, but it's likely my knowledge is out of date. So try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_education_system I haven't actually checked it, but it probably gives a reasonable general picture. One thing to note is a subjective one: my impression, no doubt a rather crude one, is that a key difference between the British and American systems is that the latter promotes a sense of success, while the British system has tended to work by graded failure, like a sporting knock-out competition. The resulting mental attitudes seem to me to go very deep. But the British approach is changing in that respect --though maybe not always for the better. -- Mike. > >> I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at > >> least [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yes - and, of course, how the general educational system is build up in > the UK You are too modest, Jan > I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at least > 51 different systems, but how about the English- > Are there anybody here who can explain how the school system in the U.K. > is from kindergarden to comprehensive school and to the A-level college > (private and public)? Moreover, how many different school systems (or > educational systems) are in the U.K.? More ample sources range from Wikipedia to official handbooks published by each country. Salient points are: -- Education in the USA is regulated by state governments rather than the national government. (There are 51 states, thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences between them may be vanishingly small.) -- Education in the UK is regulated by national governments so there are in principle three systems, Scottish, Northern Irish, and that for England and Wales. -- There have been for centuries private as well as public schools in both countries. The general principle is that the degree of control governments can exercise over a private school is proportionate to the amount of public money it accepts. -- The main difference between the American and British systems is that the individual's educational level is measured in the USA by completion of a particular grade (from 1 to 12) but in the UK certified by examination results (General Certificate of Education, examined at two levels, usually at ages 16 and 18.) -- Both countries in principle offer uniform education in a single pattern of public school (cf. abolition approx. 1970 of the British distinction between "grammar" and comprehensive secondary schools:) but this liberally interpreted, cf. the survival of private and religion-based schools. Schools change in time like any other social institution, thus sometimes demonstrate local peculiarities. A favourite example is that, in Quebec (Canada) Jews were ipso facto classified as Protestants. This was because public schools were organised 1867-approx. 1970 on religious as well as linguistic lines, in four types: English Catholic, French Catholic, English Protestant and French Protestant (almost a null class for historical reasons: up to the English conquest in the 1760s Protestants were not allowed to live in Canada.) When Quebec schools were organised by religion, Catholic schools refused to admit Jews and other non-Christians, but the Protestant schools enrolled them. Thus Jewish children in Quebec were ipso facto Protestant (and English, because although there was provision for French Protestant schools there were no such schools.) This regime was changed approx. 1970 to organise schools by language, French or English. A local peculiarity is that Quebec requires all "immigrant" children to attend French-language schools. This includes migrants from the USA or other provinces of Canada, whose home language is usually English. Some Canadian provinces have both English and French schools and permits parents to choose whichever they prefer: but Quebec is extra sensitive about this point, thus requires education in French, except for those whose parents were schooled in English in Quebec.  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) [snip] > This regime was changed approx. 1970 to organise > schools by language, French or English. A local peculiarity [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > this point, thus requires education in French, except for those > whose parents were schooled in English in Quebec. My Canadian Brother's son, born in Montreal, Quebec Province, Canada, said after his first day at school, "I like my teacher, but I can't understand anything she says". He is now so bilingual that after watching something on TV he can't tell you afterwards whether it was in French or English. With best wishes, Peter. SignaturePeter Young, (BrE), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004. (US equivalent: Attending Anesthesiologist) Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired. http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >said after his first day at school, "I like my teacher, but I can't >understand anything she says". Perhaps he liked her legs, although I still find it hard to understand how a person can like someone without understanding them. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, who speaks AmE, lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:45:15 +0100, Dr Peter Young > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Perhaps he liked her legs, although I still find it hard to understand > how a person can like someone without understanding them. At the age of five verbal communication may not be everything. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > > I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at least > > 51 different systems, but how about the English- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- Education in the USA is regulated by state governments > rather than the national government. It's regulated at both levels, but I think the most important regulators (still) are the local ones, the school boards who run each school district. There are dozens or hundreds of school districts in each state; California has over a thousand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_districts_in_California > (There are 51 states, > thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences > between them may be vanishingly small.) ... In American English, each school district may be called a system. And though there are many common features in American public education, I don't think the differences qualify as vanishingly small. For instance, at least as of about ten years ago, one district in northern New Mexico allowed corporal punishment (with the parents' written permission). -- Jerry Friedman > (There are 51 states, > thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences > between them may be vanishingly small.) No -there are only 50 states in the USA - 13 stripes and 50 stars. The stripes origin from the English (13) colonies in the East Coast. I don't know where you have got this idea that the USA have 51 states. This must be very new (a week or so) and must lead to remaking of the flag. ... In American English, each school district may be called a system. And though there are many common features in American public education, I don't think the differences qualify as vanishingly small. For instance, at least as of about ten years ago, one district in northern New Mexico allowed corporal punishment (with the parents' written permission). Terrible - old fashioned and damaging for children. In Denmark it is absolutely prohibited. >> (There are 51 states, >> thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >This must be very new (a week or so) and must lead to remaking of the >flag. I think Jerry knows exactly how many states there are in the USA. Perhaps he has given the District of Columbia honorary statehood for the purposes of this discussion. >... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Terrible - old fashioned and damaging for children. In Denmark it is >absolutely prohibited. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> (There are 51 states, >> thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences >> between them may be vanishingly small.) > > No -there are only 50 states in the USA - 13 stripes and 50 stars. The > stripes origin from the English (13) colonies in the East Coast. Bad snipping. Don Phillipson wrote that. Not Jerry. > I don't know where you have got this idea that the USA have 51 states. > This must be very new (a week or so) and must lead to remaking of the > flag. > ... [Don Phillipson wrote:] > > (There are 51 states, > > thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > flag. > ... You're responding to Don Phillipson, not me. I realize my use of Google Groups messes up your > characters, but you shouldn't have deleted Don's name from your post. [I wrote:] > In American English, each school district may be called a system. And > though there are many common features in American public education, I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Terrible - old fashioned and damaging for children. In Denmark it is > absolutely prohibited. I'm not in favor of it either. -- Jerry Friedman >> I have learnt that the American educational system consists of at least >> 51 different systems, but how about the English- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >thus notionally 51 educational systems, although differences >between them may be vanishingly small.) Did we finally make a state out of Puerto Rico? Last time I looked there were only 50 states. The 51 comes from the inclusion of the District of Columbia, which, in the strictest sense is an arm of the federal government, not a state. [...] >Schools change in time like any other social institution, thus >sometimes demonstrate local peculiarities. A favourite [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >(and English, because although there was provision for >French Protestant schools there were no such schools.) When I lived in Montreal, 1965-66, my wife was employed as a teacher by the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal. I believe the Protestant board also had Orthodox Catholics. She Taught at Outremont High School which was in an area with a large number of French-seaking Jewish Algerian refugees. Because most native French speakers at that time were Roman Catholic, the Protestant school board had to reach out to hire the likes of European French Huguenots as French teachers, even for the Protestant French-speaking schools. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * \: but Quebec is extra sensitive about > this point, thus requires education in French, except for those > whose parents were schooled in English in Quebec. Are you sure of this Don? My understanding was "parents who were schooled in English in Canada". John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > \: but Quebec is extra sensitive about >> this point, thus requires education in French, except for those >> whose parents were schooled in English in Quebec. > > Are you sure of this Don? My understanding was "parents who were > schooled in English in Canada". La charte de la langue française has gone through some changes since the late seventies. The first version was as Don said, but those requirements have been loosened. Wikipedia has a detailed account of the rules, under "Charter of the French Language": it looks all right to me, but I don't remember the details well enough to be sure. |
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