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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009the works
Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the following sentences from a novel. "Have you lost your mind? Impossible. That place is busy at all hours. They have security guards. The works." context: Someone at the White House is saying about bugging a reporter's phone at the Post. To this, answered like the above. qeusiton: is about "the works" What is the meaning of "the works"? What I guess is that it means the nature of the place or its function where people are working for news reporting. > Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the > following sentences from a novel. > > "Have you lost your mind? Impossible. That place is busy at all hours. > They have security guards. The works." This is standard modern American vernacular from hamburger restaurants. This dish is bread and meat with a variety of "toppings" e.g. green relish, mustard, tomato slices, pickle slices, and so on. "A burger with the works" means a standard hamburger with all the types of topping that are available: thus in everyday speech "the works" means "everything," as it does in the book dialogue quoted here.  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the >> following sentences from a novel. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >everyday speech "the works" means "everything," >as it does in the book dialogue quoted here. Fuddrucker's Restaurant - now gone from this area* - used to have a condiment station marked "The Works Bar". The restaurant offered huge, very good, hamburgers. *There is still a Fuddrucker's on International Drive (the tourist part of town), but I don't count that as in this area. It's a foreign land. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the > >> following sentences from a novel. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > part of town), but I don't count that as in this area. It's a foreign > land. They are still being spotted in Nort' Jersey. I've never set foot in one. Roy Rogers had (still has in the very few locations still operating) the "Fixin's Bar". SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Don Phillipson wrote... > Masa wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > restaurants. ... in everyday speech "the works" means > "everything," as it does in the book dialogue quoted here. I don't know how far back hamburgers go, but OED 1989 gives a quotation from 1899 and, from /Right Ho, Jeeves/ anno 1934, "Heave a couple of sighs. Grab her hand. And give her the works." SignatureNoel > I don't know how far back hamburgers go Hamburgers go back to the Columbian Exposition of 1893. But I suspect they didn't get "the works" until after gangsters and their victims did. The Word Detective http://www.word-detective.com/0706C.html says it's from the sense of the works of a complex machine. I have to wonder, though, if "shoot the works" didn't come first and literally mean betting the whole factory on a roll of the dice--and if that in turn wasn't influenced by "shoot the works" in the sense of riskily riding a stream over the works of a mill. ¬R Glenn Knickerbocker filted: >> I don't know how far back hamburgers go > >Hamburgers go back to the Columbian Exposition of 1893. But I suspect >they didn't get "the works" until after gangsters and their victims did. How about pizza?... Comedian George Smilovici referred to what I assume is the Aussie equivalent in his routine "I'm Tough": "I'm so tough I order pizza with the lot -- tables, chairs"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Glenn Knickerbocker filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > equivalent in his routine "I'm Tough": "I'm so tough I order pizza > with the lot -- tables, chairs"....r "With the lot" is more familiar to me on home ground than "with the works". On a "hamburger with the lot" ordered from a fish and chip shop you could hope to see a slice of tinned beetroot, a fried egg and a pineapple ring. If you were very lucky, that is. > > Glenn Knickerbocker filted: > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > hope to see a slice of tinned beetroot, a fried egg and a pineapple ring. If > you were very lucky, that is. "the lot" is not at all something an American would spontaneously utter, even in the presence of tinned beetroot (which, I gather, is what we would refer to as canned beets). SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >> "With the lot" is more familiar to me on home ground than "with the works". >> On a "hamburger with the lot" ordered from a fish and chip shop you could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even in the presence of tinned beetroot (which, I gather, is what we > would refer to as canned beets). And "you lot" (UK) is similar to "you people". (Also, you're right about the vegetable.) Signature() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments >> I don't know how far back hamburgers go > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >turn wasn't influenced by "shoot the works" in the sense of riskily >riding a stream over the works of a mill. Those may be uses that haven't reached the OED: work,n. 20. A set of parts forming a machine or piece of mechanism: orig. sing., esp. as the second element of compounds (see references below); as an independent word now only pl., the internal mechanism of a clock or watch, which actuates the hands or the striking apparatus. Also (colloq.) humorously applied to the internal organs or viscera of an animal, as in to take out the works = to draw a fowl, etc., or of a person. b. slang (orig. U.S.). the (whole) works, the whole lot, everything; esp. in phrases, to give (or tell) the works: to tell the whole story; to shoot the works: see SHOOT v. 23j; to give (someone) the works: to give (him) a rough time, spec. to murder; also, to give (someone) the full treatment (not necessarily unpleasant); to get the works: to receive severe punishment, reprimand, adverse criticism, etc. 1899 J. LONDON Let. 18 May (1966) 38, I..quite enjoyed the thought of saying good-bye to the whole works. 1920 Collier's 5 June 36/3 I ain't trying to jimmy into your most intimate affairs, but is they{em}is they a girl?.. He..sat down..and gimme the works. shoot, v. 23.j. Chiefly U.S. slang. to shoot the works: to effect something to the fullest extent; spec. to discharge the necessary business; to tell the truth, reveal all; to shoot the bull: to talk nonsense (cf. BULL n.4 3); to shoot a line: see LINE n.2 13g. 1922 E. O'NEILL Hairy Ape vii. 74 Can't youse see I belong? Sure! I'm reg'lar. I'll stick, get me? I'll shoot de woiks for youse. 1946 MEZZROW & WOLFE Really Blues i. 5 We had a yen..to strut and act biggity and shoot the works. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > 1922 E. O'NEILL Hairy Ape vii. 74 Can't youse see I belong? Sure! > I'm reg'lar. I'll stick, get me? I'll shoot de woiks for youse. I wonder if this might be the same work cited at etymonline.com (under "moon" as possibly related to "shoot the moon") for the craps sense. In the navigational sense, it's not a fixed expression, just an instance of shooting a rapids or shallow section. The 1870 use I spotted turns out to be not a mill but the construction site of the Kansas City Bridge: http://books.google.com/books?id=InEOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA57 "a large flat-boat loaded with sand, in attempting to shoot the works, had struck against one of the upper piles and sunk" ¬R "People late for work only deal with the essentials, cutting away uneccesary tasks like Occam's Razor with no time to shave." --oTTo--Bahn > Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the > following sentences from a novel. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the nature of the place or > its function where people are working for news reporting. It means "everything possible (or imagineable)" in the particular context. The expression also occurs as "the whole works". In your example it might mean there are hidden cameras, movement detectors, electric fences, hungry guard dogs, etc., etc. SignatureLes (BrE) >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the >> following sentences from a novel. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > example it might mean there are hidden cameras, movement detectors, > electric fences, hungry guard dogs, etc., etc. The whole kit and caboodle, in other words. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > > >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > The whole kit and caboodle, in other words. The whole ball of wax. The whole nine yards. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >> >> >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >The whole ball of wax. The whole nine yards. With or without the enchilada? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >> > >> >> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > With or without the enchilada? Wot awe ov it? SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >>> >>>>> Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > With or without the enchilada? I'll even throw in a megillah, no extra charge. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >qeusiton: is about "the works" >What is the meaning of "the works"? Sometimes it means a factory or other place for producing things (e.g., water works, gas works, sewage works, engine works). But more commonly it means "the whole kit and caboodle": everything which might be expected or be available to serve the role. A pizza, an ice cream sundae, or a sandwich with "the works" has every optional topping normally available in the kitchen. The name "Microsoft Works" for an old office software suite (something of a precursor to "Microsoft Office") was intended to suggest that it had all the applications the typical user would need. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness Garrett Wollman filted: >The name "Microsoft Works" for an >old office software suite (something of a precursor to "Microsoft >Office") was intended to suggest that it had all the applications the >typical user would need. Leading in turn to the (unintentionally) humorous book title: "Microsoft Works for Dummies"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Garrett Wollman filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Leading in turn to the (unintentionally) humorous book title: "Microsoft Works > for Dummies"....r And conversely. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > The name "Microsoft Works" for an > old office software suite (something of a precursor to "Microsoft > Office") was intended to suggest that it had all the applications the > typical user would need. I thought it was because you gave Microsoft your money, and they gave you "the works". SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >>qeusiton: is about "the works" >>What is the meaning of "the works"? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > an ice cream sundae, or a sandwich with "the works" has every > optional topping normally available in the kitchen. Now I'm trying to figure out whether I make a distinction between "the works" and "everything", in a food context. Certainly, in Chicago, a hot dog "with everything"[1] had all the stuff that was normally considered to go on a hot dog (mustard, relish, onions, pickles, peppers, celery salt, and (probably) chopped tomato), but emphatically didn't include ketchup, although it was available if you asked, or other things they had, such as sauerkraut, even if they might be common additions. I think "the works" went the same way. More or less, "not omitting anything, but not adding anything non-standard". [1] Leading to the story of the guy whose standard order was "Nirvana", i.e., "Make me one with everything". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |This isn't good. I've seen good, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |and it didn't look anything like Palo Alto, CA 94304 |this. | MST3K kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>> qeusiton: is about "the works" >>> What is the meaning of "the works"? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > [1] Leading to the story of the guy whose standard order was > "Nirvana", i.e., "Make me one with everything". I like that. In my family, we say "the whole shebang" when moving things. I don't think we say it for food, but maybe. Maybe when Mom was cooking T'Day dinner she said it. Most likely it was used in moving things, knocking things down, or mowing, plowing, planting. The whole shebang. > Now I'm trying to figure out whether I make a distinction between "the > works" and "everything", in a food context. Certainly, in Chicago, a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > common additions. I think "the works" went the same way. More or > less, "not omitting anything, but not adding anything non-standard". Similarly, a pizza with the works would often not include anchovies. That's a speciality item that only the most discerning will usually order. Brian SignatureDay 177 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project Default User filted: >Similarly, a pizza with the works would often not include anchovies. >That's a speciality item that only the most discerning will usually >order. I sometimes order them to keep people from taking slices of *my* pizza....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Default User filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I sometimes order them to keep people from taking slices of my > pizza....r Better hope I'm not there. Brian SignatureDay 177 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project > Default User filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I sometimes order them to keep people from taking slices of *my* > pizza....r When I was in school, there were people who would order jalapeño and anchovy pizza to maximize the probability that it would actually get to them. ("Did somebody order a pizza?" "Uh, sure. That would be me.") Especially when ordering pizzas to be delivered to the computer center late at night. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |When you rewrite a compiler from 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |scratch, you sometimes fix things Palo Alto, CA 94304 |you didn't know were broken. | Larry Wall kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Now I'm trying to figure out whether I make a distinction between "the > works" and "everything", in a food context. Certainly, in Chicago, a > hot dog "with everything"[1] had all the stuff that was normally > considered to go on a hot dog (mustard, relish, onions, pickles, > peppers, celery salt, and (probably) chopped tomato), but emphatically > didn't include ketchup, although it was available if you asked I wouldn't count on it. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >> Now I'm trying to figure out whether I make a distinction between "the >> works" and "everything", in a food context. Certainly, in Chicago, a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I wouldn't count on it. It was everyplace I ate, at least anyplace with a storefront. Kids tended to ask for it, and it was needed for the fries. Pushcarts that didn't serve fries might not have it. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Yesterday I washed a single sock. 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |When I opened the door, the machine Palo Alto, CA 94304 |was empty. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >Certainly, in Chicago, a hot dog "with everything"[1] had all the >stuff that was normally considered to go on a hot dog (mustard, >relish, onions, pickles, peppers, celery salt, and (probably) chopped >tomato), but emphatically didn't include ketchup, I.e., a "Chicago-style hot dog" (assuming, of course, that it was a Vienna Beef frank, and I forget how the dog and bun are each supposed to be warmed). Never understood why those particular peppers were called "sport peppers" -- the name makes no sense to me. The guy I travel with most frequently is a hot-dog/sausage aficionado, so when we go to Chicago there is invariably a stop for a Chicago-style hot dog. (You can even get them in Target stores in the area, I think even into southeast Wisconsin.) Likewise, when we go to Buffalo (or Tempe), a stop for lunch at Ted's is a must.[1] Regarding ketchup and fries: there are at least two places in the U.S. (that I have personal experience of) where fries are typically offered with a condiment other than ketchup. In Utah and Idaho, they have "fry sauce", and in eastern Washington, they have garlic butter. Both are yummy (but I'm not supposed to have fries any more). And of course in Quebec they put gravy on them, and in Belgium they use mayonnaise. -GAWollman [1] Unfortunately, I can't get a loganberry any more, for the same reason as I'm not supposed to have fries. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>Certainly, in Chicago, a hot dog "with everything"[1] had all the >>stuff that was normally considered to go on a hot dog (mustard, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >to be warmed). Never understood why those particular peppers were >called "sport peppers" -- the name makes no sense to me. The traditional Chicago hot dog - as served by my favorite vendors of hot dogs - comes from a mobile cart. The hot dog floats in a tank of hot water and the bun is placed on a rack over the water to be warmed and softened by the steam. I was greatly disappointed, during my last trip back to Chicago, to find that the hot dog carts in Lincoln Park Zoo have been replaced by Refreshment Stands. They at least had the common decency to allow the Refreshment Stand servers to add the condiments prior to handing over the hot dog. To be given a bare hot dog and be sent to a counter to add plastic packets of whatever "works" one chooses would be heresy. >Regarding ketchup and fries: there are at least two places in the >U.S. (that I have personal experience of) where fries are typically [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >course in Quebec they put gravy on them, and in Belgium they use >mayonnaise. Mayonnaise is also served on french fries in Denmark if you request it. I got to like this choice and generously add pepper to the mayonnaise. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>And of >>course in Quebec they put gravy on them, and in Belgium they use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >it. I got to like this choice and generously add pepper to the >mayonnaise. It's becoming more common in England, I'm happy to say. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ Garrett Wollman filted: >I.e., a "Chicago-style hot dog" (assuming, of course, that it was a >Vienna Beef frank, and I forget how the dog and bun are each supposed >to be warmed). Never understood why those particular peppers were >called "sport peppers" -- the name makes no sense to me. I always assumed it was because they were genetic mutations...freaks of nature if you will....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>Certainly, in Chicago, a hot dog "with everything"[1] had all the >>stuff that was normally considered to go on a hot dog (mustard, >>relish, onions, pickles, peppers, celery salt, and (probably) chopped >>tomato), but emphatically didn't include ketchup, > > I.e., a "Chicago-style hot dog" In much the same way that I suspect that one doesn't find many natives in Beijing talking about going out for "Chinese food", they were just "hot dogs". We were vaguely aware that people elsewhere had other ways of making them, although it wasn't quite clear why. > (assuming, of course, that it was a Vienna Beef frank, Not necessarily. Fluky's, for example, either made their own or contracted with somebody else, and they were highly regarded. (That's where we tended to go when we visited my grandparents'.) > and I forget how the dog and bun are each supposed to be warmed). Simmered and steamed, respectively. > Never understood why those particular peppers were called "sport > peppers" -- the name makes no sense to me. Note that in Chicago, they were just called "peppers". It was understood that that was the type you put on a hot dog or Italian beef sandwich. I don't think I heard them called "sport peppers" until after I moved away. As to why the name, I presume it's because they started as a mutation of some other variety. Becky Mercuri's _American Sandwich_ says Once known as the Mississippi sport pepper, they belong to the serrano chile family, and most of them are now imported from Mexico. A (probably) folk etymology from Richard Schweid's _Hot Peppers_: "Then my daddy took to growin' sport peppers. Sports are not as large as cayennes, and not so small as tabascos. They're an in-between size. They were called sports because they didn't burn your hand when you picket them. Also, a sport pepper looks like somebody dressed up in a nice, new suit. That's just how it looks." I see that some books talk about both Mississippi and Louisiana sport peppers as different varieties. I had thought that the Chicago pepper started in Louisiana, but the Mercuri quote implies that it was the Mississippi variety. Ah, yes: The Louisiana chili pepper, sometimes called by the popular name of the LOUISIANA SPORT PEPPER, is a beautiful shade of orange or deep red, and the flavor of the tiny tapering fruit is extremely hot or pungent. Milo Miloradovich, _Growing and Using Herbs and Spices_ That doesn't sound much like what you find in Chicago, unless they're all picked unripe. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |A handgun is like a Lawyer. You 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |don't want it lying around where Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the children might be exposed to |it, but when you need one, you need kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |it RIGHT NOW, and nothing else will (650)857-7572 |do. | Bill McNutt http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > The guy I travel with most frequently is a hot-dog/sausage aficionado, > so when we go to Chicago there is invariably a stop for a > Chicago-style hot dog. (You can even get them in Target stores in the > area, I think even into southeast Wisconsin.) Likewise, when we go to > Buffalo (or Tempe), a stop for lunch at Ted's is a must.[1] We have a hotdog place here in St. Louis that generally satisfies the Chicago ex-pats. They have to ask for the celery salt though, for some reason it doesn't come with the . . . I hesitate to say "works" or "fully-loaded", let's say "combo" dog. I don't like all that stuff on my dog. I either want kraut and mustard, or chili. Brian SignatureDay 178 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project On Jul 28, 3:36 pm, masa <aut...@infoseek.jp> wrote: > Let me ask a question about the meaning of "the works" in the > following sentences from a novel. > > "Have you lost your mind? Impossible. That place is busy at all hours. > They have security > guards. The works Search at http://books.google.com/books with: "the works" slang One of the definitions: ---- A concise dictionary of slang and unconventional English: from a Dictionary ... by Eric Partridge, Paul Beale - Language Arts & Disciplines - 1989 - 534 pages Page 509 give (one) the works, to give (or inflict) the complete treatment; ----- Marius Hancu Marius Hancu filted: >One of the definitions: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >give (one) the works, to give (or inflict) the complete treatment; >----- Beautifully illustrated near the end of this cartoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ScWsjwz3I ....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? |
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