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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009Out of trace
What does "out of trace" mean?  SignatureJon >What does "out of trace" mean? Have you seen "out of trace" used in a sentence? If you have, please could you tell us the sentence. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Have you seen "out of trace" used in a sentence? I'm inventing a name and trying to anticipate what "out of trace" reminds to people, if it makes sense and which it might be. -- Jon >> Have you seen "out of trace" used in a sentence? > > I'm inventing a name and trying to anticipate what "out of trace" reminds > to people, if it makes sense and which it might be. Invent a name for whom? or for what? BTW, it makes no sense, and it reminds me of nothing . . . > I'm inventing a name > -- > Jon Neither "Jim" nor "Jon" suits you? Brian SignatureDay 177 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project > I'm inventing a name and trying to anticipate what "out of trace" reminds to > people, if it makes sense and which it might be. These are two unrelated tasks: 1: inventing a name. (There are no rules for this.) 2: speculating what "out of trace" might mean. The general guideline is that context often determines meaning: so without a concrete context your speculation may make no progress. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > > Have you seen "out of trace" used in a sentence? > > I'm inventing a name and trying to anticipate what "out of trace" reminds to > people, if it makes sense and which it might be. My first thought was "badly traced", the way "out of drawing" (speaking of Swinburne) means or used to mean "badly drawn". -- Jerry Friedman I think may be "out of trace" means somebody is washed out. >I think may be "out of trace" means somebody is washed out. Without trace? Maybe that's what the OP Jim-Jon meant. It's easy to make a mechanical paraphrase between "out of trace" and "without trace", because, after all, "without" means "outside" or "outside of", doesn't it? I know this is true, because it is in the dictionary. SignaturePaul Outwith a dictionary, life has a different hue (but do not cry). >> Have you seen "out of trace" used in a sentence? > > I'm inventing a name and trying to anticipate what "out of trace" reminds > to people, if it makes sense and which it might be. In the spirit of your question, and using the literal meaning of "reminds to people", I shall answer your question without recourse to the dictionary. What does it imply to me, in my state of ignorance of the correct meaning? "I lost all trace of her, from 1977 when she disappeared, up to last week when she unexpectedly rang my doorbell and asked me to lend her £500". If you lose trace of somebody, you have no information whatsoever about where that person is, or what he/she is doing. For all you know, that person might be dead. I would therefore surmise, without the use of a dictionary that "out of trace" might mean "disappeared, leaving no information on where he/she might have gone to, or what he/she is now doing". Completely "off the radar", metaphorically. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. > What does "out of trace" mean? I see that there is an obsolete "out of trace" from the 16th century, but it seems extremely unlikely to be what you are asking us for. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux Quoth "Jim" <sir@sir.sir>, and I quote: >What does "out of trace" mean? The OED defines it as "out of proper connexion, out of order", with only one example under "trace", from c. 1518, so it's not exactly current. There's also a fine poertic example under "harre" (a hinge) from c. 1520 SKELTON Magnyf. 923: All is out of harre, And out of trace, Ay warre and warre In euery place. SignatureJames >Quoth "Jim" <sir@sir.sir>, and I quote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Ay warre and warre >In euery place. I immediately thought of a similarity to "kick over the traces". <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1969008/kick_over_the_traces_or igin_and_meaning.html> <http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:10tv005Jz8AJ:www.associatedcontent. com/article/1969008/kick_over_the_traces_origin_and_meaning.html+%22out+o f+trace%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk> SignatureIan >In message <rf5175ddld8a7pg0u88h0ba0319a96o163@4ax.com>, James Hogg ><Jas.Hogg@gOUTmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >I immediately thought of a similarity to "kick over the traces". When the hounds of spring are on winter's traces, it's one thing; when they are out of trace... oh, let it pass, let it pass. <http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?sid=19036> Trace can mean harness (noun), or it can mean track (noun and verb). Let us presume Swinburne to have intended ambiguity in Calydon. SignaturePaul >>In message <rf5175ddld8a7pg0u88h0ba0319a96o163@4ax.com>, James Hogg >><Jas.Hogg@gOUTmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Trace can mean harness (noun), or it can mean track (noun and verb). Let >us presume Swinburne to have intended ambiguity in Calydon. "Trace" is also part of angling tackle. For instance: http://www.worldseafishing.com/tackle/boatrigs/boat_tope.html Tope Trace .... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >In message <rf5175ddld8a7pg0u88h0ba0319a96o...@4ax.com>, James Hogg > ><Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Trace can mean harness (noun), or it can mean track (noun and verb). Let > us presume Swinburne to have intended ambiguity in Calydon. Oh, come now. Hounds follow tracks. That should be meadow or plain enough. -- Jerry Friedman likes that first stanza, despite a tendency to think the second line is "And the pods went pop on the broom, green broom", which is just wrong in many ways. >On Jul 29, 3:51 pm, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: >> >In message <rf5175ddld8a7pg0u88h0ba0319a96o...@4ax.com>, James Hogg [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Oh, come now. Hounds follow tracks. That should be meadow or plain >enough. At Winter's heels, leashed in like hounds, do (those of) Spring crouch for employment. My variant goes off the rails, but still, Swinburne must have been familiar with Henry V. I think the image works, with Winter being about to loose Spring. >Jerry Friedman likes that first stanza, despite a tendency to think >the second line is "And the pods went pop on the broom, green broom", >which is just wrong in many ways. Too wrong for me to make aright. SignaturePaul > >> >In message <rf5175ddld8a7pg0u88h0ba0319a96o...@4ax.com>, James Hogg > >> >>Quoth "Jim" <s...@sir.sir>, and I quote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > familiar with Henry V. I think the image works, with Winter being about > to loose Spring. Hm. The NSOED defines "trace" as something for a draught animal to pull, not something to restrain a dog. But as a metaphor... given that nothing rhymes with "leashes"... maybe... Speaking of going off the rails, Chorus from /Analoga in the Digital Era/ When the hounds of Spring are on Winter's leashes, The mother of munge in media plain Fills the folders and microfiches With loss of leaves and rotting of rain, And the brown bright bookworm gluttonous Is half assuaged for the paperless As it plunders poesy and pastiches, Provoking (since this is Swinburne) pain. -- Jerry Friedman >On Jul 30, 12:54 am, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >Hm. The NSOED defines "trace" as something for a draught animal to >pull, not something to restrain a dog. >But as a metaphor... given >that nothing rhymes with "leashes"... maybe... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >As it plunders poesy and pastiches, >Provoking (since this is Swinburne) pain. Ouch. Seriously though folks, this is creditable, well creditable. Though how it will go down in St John's Wood remains to be seen. I pulled out my usual dictionary to check on traces and hit first, up at the top of the page there to guide the reader home, Thirty-nine Articles, and next, todger. I can't be doing with these modern works. Good grief, the next to strike the eye is Toowoomba, "a town in Queensland...formerly known as The Swamps". What is Oxford coming to? At least they include trahison des clercs, as an Awful Warning, I hope. I suppose I ought to concede that winter is unlikely to be drawing the hounds of spring; but when one is on the other's traces, it's unclear who's in the driving seat. As Thurber sagely said, or wisely wrote, let it pass. SignaturePaul >What does "out of trace" mean? Nothing. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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