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Discussion Groups / English Usage / August 2009Is not that true?
Hello: Do you feel a difference between: 1). Is that not true? 2). Is not that true? I feel some stress in 1 on "that" being the point, the 2nd being more neutral/flatter. -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > Do you feel a difference between: > > 1). Is that not true? > 2). Is not that true? Yes, I feel a difference. I cannot think of an instance when I'd use choice 2. I'd say "Isn't that true?" "Is not" doesn't exactly roll off my tongue. > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks. > Marius Hancu Nah. As Kalmia pointed out, (2) is incorrect English. One might say (in fact, one would probably prefer to say) 3) Isn't that true? which is what happens to (2) when it is spoken in English by an English speaker. (1) is rare, somewhat strange, and rather formal in tone, though it's just grammatical enough. (2) isn't grammatical. (3) is the norm. -John Lawler - http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue "Academic integrity still plagues campus" Headline, University of Michigan Daily 11/12/02 >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Nah. As Kalmia pointed out, (2) is incorrect English. However, it would have been grammatical in at least the early part of the 19th century - it crops up often enough in novels of that period. I'm not sure when it went out of use. "Was not that a dainty dish to set before the King?" is probably rather earlier, and anyway it's poetry. Katy >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "Was not that a dainty dish to set before the King?" is probably rather > earlier, and anyway it's poetry. Are nursery rhymes poetry? Discuss.  SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Do you feel a difference between: > 1). Is that not true? > 2). Is not that true? 3). Isn't that true? Sure. 1 is proper English and 2 is wrong -- even though it looks like the expansion of 3, which is the most common way to say it. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | Typos are a journalistic tradition of long msb@vex.net | etaoin shrdlu. -- Truly Donovan >> Do you feel a difference between: >> 1). Is that not true? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Sure. 1 is proper English and 2 is wrong -- even though it looks >like the expansion of 3, which is the most common way to say it. Grammatically, I would say that 2 is perfectly correct, but very 'old fashioned', and unlikely to be used. 3 is a contraction of 2, and the usual way to say it. 1 is also correct, and might be useful where some extra emphasis is required, as in "Is THAT not true?" or "Is that NOT true?" or "Is that not TRUE?". SignatureIan On Aug 31, 5:26 am, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In message <rMydnUjZSNs41AbXnZ2dnUVZ_oudn...@vex.net>, Mark Brader > <m...@vex.net> writes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > extra emphasis is required, as in "Is THAT not true?" or "Is that NOT > true?" or "Is that not TRUE?". Indeed, there are quite many hits on 2 at Google Books, but, now I see it, they come mostly from the 19th century or the first decades of the 20th: 1,230 on "Is not that true?" http://tinyurl.com/nu6sgk Thank you all. Marius Hancu >> >> Do you feel a difference between: >> >> 1). Is that not true? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 1,230 on "Is not that true?" > http://tinyurl.com/nu6sgk I'm not completely convinced that people actually said it, though. What you see may simply be simply the result of expanding the spoken contractions literally in writing that was too "formal" for them. Most of the hits I see scanning through your page are transcriptions of testimony or other speech, where it's almost certain that what was actually said was "Isn't that true?" SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Other computer companies have spent 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |15 years working on fault-tolerant Palo Alto, CA 94304 |computers. Microsoft has spent |its time more fruitfully, working kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |on fault-tolerant *users*. (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>> Do you feel a difference between: >>> 1). Is that not true? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > extra emphasis is required, as in "Is THAT not true?" or "Is that NOT > true?" or "Is that not TRUE?". I have nothing at all against 1, used as you describe. I wonder if John's sense that it's rather strange reveals another transoceanic difference. As for rarity, I can't make up my mind: but it seems to me there are situations in which it would be the only likely form. SignatureMike. > 2). Is not that true? --- [The Maltese archbishop speaking] I mean, you could write a book, is not that true? Anthony Burgess, Earthly Powers, p. 14 --- Now I know this is definitely intended on the part of Burgess, to show that the archbishop isn't a native speaker of English. Thank you all. Marius Hancu > > 2). Is not that true? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Marius Hancu I'd use "Is not that true?" if I were feeling emphatic, especially if I intended to show the other person that he was wrong in holding the opposite opinion. In message <c377ae97-c6d9-42d2-bbf6-e2da4c2aad97@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, Cece <ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com> writes >> > 2). Is not that true? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >I intended to show the other person that he was wrong in holding the >opposite opinion. I don't think I'd ever use this old way of saying it. To assert my general opinion, I would say "Is that not true?", with a little (fairly equal) emphasis on 'that not true'. But it all depends on the circumstances. In some situations, I might stress any - or all - of the four words. SignatureIan |
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