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on the record

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Yilaner - 29 Sep 2009 07:48 GMT
Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:

Words for sex can be even more touchy, because they not only evoke the
charged thoughts but implicate a sharing of these thoughts between two
people. The thoughts, moreover, are shared "on the record," each party
knowing that the other knows he or she has been thinking about sex
under discussion. This lack of plausible deniability embroils the
dialogue in an extra layer of intrigue.(

My questions include:
What does "on the reocord" denote here?
What do "plausible deniability" and "intrigue"refer to?

Thank you for taking your time out to help me!
Mark Brader - 29 Sep 2009 09:59 GMT
> Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:

(http://www.newlinetheatre.com/tnr-curse.html is one place where the
the whole thing has been posted.)

> Words for sex can be even more touchy, because they not only evoke the
> charged thoughts but implicate a sharing of these thoughts between two
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> My questions include:
> What does "on the reocord" denote here?

In journalism, if someone is "on the record" as saying something, it
means they said it with the knowledge that it could be made public
in connection with their name.  Basically it is the opposite of "in
confidence" or similar expressions.

Here it means that a statement is made in plain, open language.
If you say that a certain woman "is good-looking", people might guess
that you're think about her sexually; but if you say she's "someone
I'd like to f.ck", you're saying openly that you're thinking sexually.
So it's like going "on the record" in the journalistic sense -- you
might be quoted as saying it.

> What do "plausible deniability"

This means that you can say that you didn't do something bad, or weren't
thinking something bad, and have a chance of being believed.  You can
deny the bad thing and be plausible about it.

If thinking about a woman sexually is bad, and you said she's "someone
I'd like to f.ck", you have no plausible deniability.  But if you just
says she "is good-looking", it's plausible that you might be thinking
about her exercise program and her taste in cosmetics.

> and "intrigue" refer to?

Someone is "embroiled in intrigue" if they're involved in a complicated
situation where people have concealed motives.  What Pinker is getting
at is that sexual words arouse sexual thoughts and this adds a lot of
new implications to a conversation; but I don't think "intrigue" is the
right word to express that thought.  Something like "complications"
might have been better.
Signature

Mark Brader, Toronto               "Truth speak from any chair."
msb@vex.net                          -- Charlie Chan at the Wax Museum

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Derek Turner - 29 Sep 2009 10:49 GMT
> Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:
>
> Words for sex can be even more touchy, because they not only evoke the
> charged thoughts but implicate

Stop right there! If the author doesn't know the word 'imply' then
nothing else he writes is going to be worth reading.
Guy Barry - 29 Sep 2009 14:56 GMT
> > Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Stop right there! If the author doesn't know the word 'imply' then
> nothing else he writes is going to be worth reading.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/implicate

Sense 3: (Linguistics) "to convey, imply, or suggest by implicature".

But I'm not sure why "imply" couldn't have been used anyway.

--
Guy Barry
John Lawler - 30 Sep 2009 04:02 GMT
> > > Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> Guy Barry

"Imply" is a general term that subsumes a lot
of different ways that propositions can be
conveyed without necessarily being said.

There are terms for all of these ways, which,
by the way, were developed mostly by philosophers,
not linguists, though we use them when we're trying
to be very precise and accurate.  Which we need
to be when talking to philosophers.

"Implicate", as Guy points out, means to
communicate a proposition by use of Implicature.

"Implicature" refers to the kind of implication
provided by such things as indirectness, e.g,

   Gosh, it's cold in here.

conveys a "Conversational Implicature" that
is equivalent to requesting someone to shut
the window or turn up the heart.

It certainly isn't Entailed,
the way "Bill killed Dave"
entails that Dave died,
nor is it Presupposed,
the way "Carter used to be President"
presupposes that Carter is not president now.

Nor any other of the several ways of
conveying propositions that aren't
actually stated.  There are names for
all of these ways that have been teased
out so far, and no doubt more to come
as more are discovered.

This, by the way, is an example of
Pragmatics, not Semantics, and
certainly not grammar of any sort.

Pinker is just trying to use the technical
language carefully and precisely. This
is not necessarily a Bad Thing.

-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler
  "Truthful words are not beautiful;
    beautiful words are not truthful.
    Good words are not persuasive;
    persuasive words are not good."
                                - Lao Zi
Don Phillipson - 29 Sep 2009 13:57 GMT
> Here an excerpt from Steven Pinker's articel:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> What does "on the reocord" denote here?
> What do "plausible deniability" and "intrigue"refer to?

1.  On or off the record comes from US newspaper journalism
(mid-20th century.)   The idea is that official (governmental)
information given to a reporter on the record may be publicly
printed, while information off the record may illuminate the
reporter's understanding of events but he is obligated to
keep the core information secret.

2.  Plausible deniability emerged in the US government
approx. 1970 and means generally the capacity to lie to or
mislead the public (or the legislature.)   If a government
approves some deplorable act (e.g. interference in the
domestic politics of another country) and if the act is
later detected, the source government wants some
a priori "proof" that it did not approve the act.

These concepts came into the language from such very
different contexts that (when used to categorize the
"touchy" subject of sayable words for sexual behavior)
they approximate a mixed metaphor, i.e. confusion,
especially in readers uninformed about the characteristically
American values implicated in the Viet Nam War, the Watergate
Affair and other events of the period.
Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

 
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