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Discussion Groups / English Usage / September 2009Burgess: were bidden stand at ...
Hello: Is "stand" in "were bidden stand" a noun? Does the expression mean "were offered (standing) positions/places" and not "were offered to stand?" -- [Opera about the miracles performed by St. Nicholas, including resurrected three people who turn against him, being devilish in fact] Nicholas and the three resurrected had not moved from their former positions. Now there was an aria from Nicholas as he spoke his intentions, and the three inspected, like sniffing cats, their new home. The were bidden stand at three lecterns to start studying Scripture. Anthony Powell, Earthly Powers, p. 495 --- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Thanks. > Marius Hancu 'Stand' isn't a noun here, it's a verb. The three were told to stand at the lecterns to start studying Scripture, presumably from Bibles that were lying on top of the lecterns. 'Offered' doesn't come into it at all; it's not 'bid' in the sense of 'making an offer', but in the sense 'to order'.  SignatureCheryl > Is "stand" in > "were bidden stand" > a noun? It's an infinitive form. They were bidden (to) stand. > Does the expression mean > "were offered (standing) positions/places" > and not > "were offered to stand?" He told them to stand at the lecterns. It's a little less coercive than "ordered". > -- > [Opera about the miracles performed by St. Nicholas, including [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Anthony Powell, Earthly Powers, p. 495 > --- > > Is "stand" in > > "were bidden stand" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > He told them to stand at the lecterns. It's a little less coercive > than "ordered". Fine, I thought about it, however I was hijacked by the lack of "to." Why not "to?" Is this an intentional older construct, where the bare and not the long infinitive is used? I certainly find more "were bidden _to_ stand" at Google Books. Marius Hancu >>> Is "stand" in >>> "were bidden stand" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Is this an intentional older construct, where the bare and not the > long infinitive is used? Yes, maybe; it's a conversion to the passive voice of "he [or some other subject] bade them stand", which looks somewhat archaic and perfectly all right without a "to". > I certainly find more "were bidden _to_ stand" at Google Books. > Yes, maybe; it's a conversion to the passive voice of "he [or some > other subject] bade them stand", which looks somewhat archaic and > perfectly all right without a "to". "Bade" is so archaic, it's true pronunciation was forgotten and replaced by a more logical spelling-based pronunciation. It looks as if it should rhyme with "fade" and "made," but in my mother's youth it was pronounced as "bad". Even then, it was only encountered in poetry and suchlike. Some King James Version uses that show "bade" with a bare infinitive: 2 Samuel 1:18 Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: 1 Samuel 24:10 and some bade me kill thee: Esther 4:15 Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer, ... Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting ... While I was working on that, I was rather surprised to read: "Joshua 11:9 And Joshua did unto them as the Lord bade him: he houghed their horses, and burnt their chariots with fire." We had discussed Hough as a name but I never saw it as a meaningful word. On-line dictionaries say it is the same as "hock." The 1828 Webster's has: HOUGH, v.t. hok. To hamstring; to disable by cutting the sinews of the ham. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> Yes, maybe; it's a conversion to the passive voice of "he [or some >> other subject] bade them stand", which looks somewhat archaic and [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >HOUGH, v.t. hok. To hamstring; to disable by cutting the sinews of the >ham. OED: hough, v1. trans. To disable by cutting the sinew or tendons of the hough (see HOUGH-SINEW); to hamstring. {dag}hough-sinew, n. The sinew of the hough or hock; applied, in man, to the popliteal tendons, or hamstrings, at the back of the knee; in a quadruped, to the tendon of Achilles. a1430 Wyclif's Bible 1 Chron. xviii. 4 (MS. Corpus Coll., Camb.) He oxide, that is, he kitte asonder the hou{ygh} senues of alle the horsis. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) In our last episode, <5419021e-2849-4988-970d-def1f9bf985c@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented Marius Hancu broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Hello: > Is "stand" in > "were bidden stand" > a noun? It is the bare infinitive (no "to"). > Does the expression mean > "were offered (standing) positions/places" > and not > "were offered to stand?" It means they were told to stand at .... > -- > [Opera about the miracles performed by St. Nicholas, including > resurrected three people who turn against him, being devilish in fact] > Nicholas and the three resurrected had not moved from their former > positions. Now there was an aria from Nicholas as he spoke his > intentions, and the three inspected, like sniffing cats, their new > home. The were bidden stand at three lecterns to start studying > Scripture. > Anthony Powell, Earthly Powers, p. 495 > --- > -- > Thanks. > Marius Hancu SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5873, 1993 251 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. |
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