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Discussion Groups / English Usage / October 2009one... he or she/one...they
Hi to all, which one of the following is considered to be more correct in formal English writing. one... he or she or one...they? For example: One can succeed in his or her life provided that he or she is diligent and hard-working. One can succeed in their lives provided that they are diligent and hard-working. Thanks in advance Thanasis > Hi to all, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > One can succeed in their lives provided that they are diligent and > hard-working. In British English that would be: One can succeed in one's life provided that one is diligent and hard-working. or more simply One can succeed in life provided that one is diligent and hard-working. No need to change the subject in mid-sentence.  SignatureJames Many thanks what about american english? >> Hi to all, >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > No need to change the subject in mid-sentence. Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:46:52 +0200 from thanasis <invalid@thanasis.gr>: > Hi to all, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > One can succeed in their lives provided that they are diligent and > hard-working. Neither of the above. The first one could be changed to "... in one's life ..." and would be correct though extremely formal. "Lives" in the second one is clearly wrong. It is best to avoid the whole issue of gendered pronouns in third person, because anything you do will annoy a substantial number of people. Unless the context is quite formal, the second person is a good way out: "You can succeed in your life if you are diligent and work hard." SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... >Hi to all, > >which one of the following is considered to be more correct in formal >English writing. >one... he or she or >one...they? Neither. Its one... one >For example: > >One can succeed in his or her life provided that he or she is diligent and >hard-working. One can succeed in one's life provided that one is diligent and hard working. Think of "one" as being like "you and I" or "we" We can succeed in our lives provided that he or she is hard working -- why should our success depend on someone else's work? >One can succeed in their lives provided that they are diligent and >hard-working. > >Thanks in advance > >Thanasis SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > "thanasis" wrote: >> which one of the following is considered to be more correct in formal >> English writing. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > We can succeed in our lives provided that he or she is hard working > -- why should our success depend on someone else's work? Oy! SignatureSkitt (AmE) > Hi to all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanasis Neither is incorrect, exactly. Which one one uses depends on how formal one wants to be. 'One ... he or she' is stultifyingly formal, and guarantees no one will read further with interest, or memory. It smacks of official boilerplate. If that's one's goal, go for it. 'One ... they' is normal English. However, many peevologists froth at its use, so it's the one to use if one likes watching people spew flecks of foam from their mouths. One'll have gathered by now that the use of the indefinite pronoun 'one' in *any* variety of English should be avoided, except between consenting adults. As with most English usage questions, if one is a native speaker and one has to ask whether a construction is correct, one should find another way to say it instead. -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler Getting an education is a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs, and then you have the urge to pass it on. -- Terry Pratchett > > Hi to all, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > disease. It makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs, and > then you have the urge to pass it on. -- Terry Pratchett I would say "their life" rather than their lives in this case. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada John Lawler: > 'One ... he or she' is stultifyingly formal ... > 'One ... they' is normal English. I'm surprised to hear John say this without qualification. I don't believe I'm the only one who would say that both versions are just wrong. In formal usage, for me, it can only be "one ... one". (And in *normal*, informal, English, of course it's "you ... you".) SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "I conducted a Usenet poll ... on this subject ... msb@vex.net | Laura is single. By a 2-1 margin." --Ken Perlow My text in this article is in the public domain. > John Lawler: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > wrong. In formal usage, for me, it can only be "one ... one". > (And in *normal*, informal, English, of course it's "you ... you".) You aren't the only one--I agree completely. In my view of American English, "One... he or she" and "One... they" are both like wearing white socks with a navy suit. If you have a reason to put on the suit, you have the same reason to put on the socks that go with it. (Unless you're clowning.) -- Jerry Friedman wrote that in normal English. On Oct 27, 7:46 am, "thanasis" <inva...@thanasis.gr> wrote: > Hi to all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanasis Neither is incorrect, exactly. Which one one uses depends on how formal one wants to be. 'One ... he or she' is stultifyingly formal, and guarantees no one will read further with interest, or memory. It smacks of official boilerplate. If that's one's goal, go for it. 'One ... they' is normal English. However, many peevologists froth at its use, so it's the one to use if one likes watching people spew flecks of foam from their mouths. One'll have gathered by now that the use of the indefinite pronoun 'one' in *any* variety of English should be avoided, except between consenting adults. As with most English usage questions, if one is a native speaker and one has to ask whether a construction is correct, one should find another way to say it instead. My intention is to get a high grade in essay writing for the examination ECPE (American English). Could you please tell what is the best way so as to get a high grade? Thanks Thanasis -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler Getting an education is a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs, and then you have the urge to pass it on. -- Terry Pratchett ... > news:8e020085-ccaf-4dff-8bcf-a403c01bccbd@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com... > On Oct 27, 7:46 am, "thanasis" <inva...@thanasis.gr> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > one... he or she or > > one...they? ... > My intention is to get a high grade in essay writing for the examination > ECPE (American English). Could you please tell what is the best way so as to > get a high grade? "One... one's". And "oneself" if necessary. I think explaining your intention is very helpful. -- Jerry Friedman > One'll have gathered by now that the use of > the indefinite pronoun 'one' in *any* variety of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > disease. It makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs, and > then you have the urge to pass it on. -- Terry Pratchett I didn't even see your last question until Jerry quoted it, because it was mixed in with what John Lawler had written. You would be doing yourself a favour if you configured your newsreader to quote properly. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > I didn't even see your last question until Jerry quoted it, because > it was mixed in with what John Lawler had written. You would be doing > yourself a favour if you configured your newsreader to quote properly. It's more than configuration. It's another round of the Outlook Express/Google Groups incompatibility. He'll need to install OE Quotefix, get a different newsreader, or figure some way to unambigously differentiate the quotes. Brian SignatureDay 268 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project Hi, My intention is to get a high grade in essay writing for the examination ECPE (American English). Could you please tell what is the best way to write the above phrase, so as to get a high grade? Thanks Thanasis >'One ... he or she' is stultifyingly formal, and >guarantees no one will read further with interest, >or memory. It smacks of official boilerplate. If >that's one's goal, go for it. It sounds highly informal to me, and in fact downright wrong. >'One ... they' is normal English. However, many >peevologists froth at its use, so it's the one to >use if one likes watching people spew flecks of >foam from their mouths. Equally informal andf equally wrong. One should not drive when one is drunk. ... is OK. But one SHOULD drive when one is sober and he and she are drunk. If it's he OR she, then there is the possibilty that one of them could be sober and the other drunk, so one could drive and so could the other sober one. One SHOULD drive when one is sober and they are drunk, because then one is the only sober member of the party. There are probably less formal ways of putting it, but what the heck, it's only an example. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>'One ... he or she' is stultifyingly formal, and >>guarantees no one will read further with interest, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Equally informal andf equally wrong. "One" is to me (BrE) heavily formal. Misusing it, by treating it as "you" or "a person" later doesn't make it informal, it just makes the sentence weird. I can't think when I last used this (non-numeric) "one" in writing or speech. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu > Neither is incorrect, exactly. Which one one > uses depends on how formal one wants to be. Using "one" can easily become very awkward, which is probably why people tend to reserve if for more formal writing, when they have time to think carefully about how to use it neatly. As an aside: One-One was a racehorse. Two-Two was one, too. One-One won one race, Two-Two won one, too. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > which one of the following is considered to be more correct in formal > English writing. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > One can succeed in their lives provided that they are diligent and > hard-working. If one begins with "one", one is *obliged* to carry it on through: One can succeed in one's life provided that one is diligent and hard- working. Note that such use of "one" is a bit tedious; the most frequent uses are in publications where the natural word is "I" but editorial policy forbids articles in the first-person. (Silly, but at least once upon a time, not uncommon: "One tried on one's new hat.") It is a separate consideration that in sound English, whether or not "formal", "they" can only be used with a plural antecedent, no matter what the lazy or adventurous tell you. In cases where the sex of a person is indeterminate, there are numerous ways to work around the "he or she" matter--Garner, in "A Dictionary of Modern American Usage" (at "Sexism") lists five. The commonest and easiest is to make the subject plural to begin with ("Students should do their work diligently"); another is to write around an explicit subject ("Success in life can be had by diligence and hard work"). Moreover, when it is simply necessary, it is not so awful as all that. See also http://owlcroft.com/english/they.shtml SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ |
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