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Discussion Groups / English Usage / October 2009[be] decided based on something; [be] decided to be based on something
Ladies and Gentlemen: What follows is a test question quoted from a Taiwanese website for English learners. I'm trying to lend a hand to the poster. ----------- Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. a. basing on b. based on c. to be based on ----------- The given answer is (B), but the poster wonders whether (C) is possible. The given answer agrees with the sentential source, a short article entitled "Oh, No, Not Another Test!" The paragraph in which the sentence of the test question appears is quoted below: ----------- Even test experts agree that current tests are not perfect. Paul Barton, the director of educational testing services (ETS) Policy Information Center, has suggested that standardized testing needs to change. Students should take fewer standardized tests. The ones they do take, he says, should tell us what students really know, and how they can use that knowledge in real life. To use standardized tests or not to—the debate continues. Meanwhile, many students' futures are still decided based on their test results. Source: http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/h0963051482/article?mid=388 ("TW" tells you that this is a Taiwanese web page. This page contains Chinese characters. ) ----------- I think the sentence of the test question can be paraphrased as follows: The decision of the students' futures was still based on their test results. (Right?) According to Google Books, I've realized that "[Subject] [be] decided based on [something]" is a common expression; I'm glad that I've learned a new expression. I find the sentence grammatical with "to be based on" inserted in the blank, but the semantics seems to be altered. (Right?) Can you give me some pointers? Sincerely, Tacia > What follows is a test question quoted from a Taiwanese website for > English learners. I'm trying to lend a hand to the poster. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The given answer is (B), but the poster wonders whether (C) is > possible. All these answers are unidiomatic. English speakers say: " . . . futures are determined by their test results."  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) Clarification: The short article entitled "Oh, No, Not Another Test!", the sentential source of the test question, is included in /Active Skills for Reading: Book 2/, published by Heinle & Heinle. The blog I provided is not the original source. =) Sincerely, Tacia "Tacia" asked about: > > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. > > a. basing on > > b. based on > > c. to be based on Don Phillipson: > All these answers are unidiomatic. English speakers say: > " . . . futures are determined by their test results." I disagree. Either (b) or Don's wording is possible. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Where do you want Microsoft to go today?" msb@vex.net -- Rick Ross > "Tacia" asked about: >> > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I disagree. Either (b) or Don's wording is possible. I agree with Mark. (b) is idiomatic and correct. Don's suggested replacement is also idiomatic, though longer. >> "Tacia" asked about: >>>> Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I agree with Mark. (b) is idiomatic and correct. > Don's suggested replacement is also idiomatic, though longer. "by" is longer than "based on"? or "determined by" is longer than "still decided based on"? Even if we don't count the "still" (as we probably shouldn't because I don't think Don should have dropped it, as it is relevant to the meaning) your longer version is still shorter than the shorter version. Anyway, I think plenty of native speakers would used the "based on" wording, but I find it flabby. I much prefer Don's wording. Signatureathel >>> "Tacia" asked about: >>>>> Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Anyway, I think plenty of native speakers would used the "based on" > wording, but I find it flabby. I much prefer Don's wording. Well, regardless. Don was wrong to say that (b) was not idiomatic. He went on to suggest how the test should have been worded. I didn't disagree with that, as I don't disagree with "by". As a matter of fact, before looking at the list, I mentally thought of "by". But those suggestions? Well, that ain't the real world that Tacia's friend found in the test. Athel Cornish-Bowden: > Anyway, I think plenty of native speakers would used the "based on" > wording, but I find it flabby. I much prefer Don's wording. So do I, by the way. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto Well, somebody had to be the pedant here! msb@vex.net -- David Keldsen > Athel Cornish-Bowden: > >> Anyway, I think plenty of native speakers would used the "based on" >> wording, but I find it flabby. I much prefer Don's wording. > > So do I, by the way. The strictly old-fashioned "grammatical" reason for this widespread preference might interest Tacia. The "based on" wording is inferior because it uses an adjectival phrase to do the work of an adverbial phrase. You could avoid that problem, and keep the rest of the sentence intact, by writing "Many students' futures are still decided _on the basis of_ their test results." I agree that the "based on" wording is not considered entirely incorrect anymore, but I think that that mismatch is the basis of many people's unease. On Oct 30, 9:57 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr> wrote: > >> "Tacia" asked about: > >>>> Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Anyway, I think plenty of native speakers would used the "based on" > wording, but I find it flabby. I much prefer Don's wording. To me they mean somewhat different things, since the agents are different. "Their futures are decided based on their test scores" means someone looks at their test scores and decides their futures. "Their futures are decided by their test scores" means the scores decide their futures; the process is automatic (somehow). -- Jerry Friedman >"Tacia" asked about: >> > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I disagree. Either (b) or Don's wording is possible. Option (b) is "Many students' futures are still decided, based on their test results", which doesn't make much sense to me. I vote for Don's wording. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>"Tacia" asked about: >>> > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > their test results", which doesn't make much sense to me. I vote for > Don's wording. There's no comma in option (b): Many students' futures are still decided based on their test results. which sounds fine to me (as your version with the comma doesn't). SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |You gotta know when to code, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Know when to log out, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Know when to single step, | Know when you're through. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |You don't write your program (650)857-7572 | When you're sittin' at the term'nal. |There'll be time enough for writin' http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | When you're in the queue. >>>"Tacia" asked about: >>>> > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >which sounds fine to me (as your version with the comma doesn't). It may sound fine to you but without the comma it doesn't look fine to me. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE "Tacia": > ----------- > Many students' futures are still decided ________ their test results. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The given answer is (B), but the poster wonders whether (C) is > possible. ... > I find the sentence grammatical with "to be based on" inserted in the > blank, but the semantics seems to be altered. (Right?) Yes, but the resulting meaning is one that doesn't make sense and the resulting wording is an unnatural way to express it. The meaning would be equivalent to "it is still decided that many students' futures are based on their test results". That is a more natural way to say it, but it doesn't make sense -- why would this be something that would "still" be being decided? SignatureMark Brader | "Now I feel stupid. Well, I guess it's not bad Toronto | if that happens once a decade or so." msb@vex.net | --Al Fargnoli My text in this article is in the public domain. > Ladies and Gentlemen: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The given answer is (B), but the poster wonders whether (C) is > possible. That poster might have been fooled by a point that hasn't been mentioned yet. Although (c) is unacceptable as it stands, it could have been correct with a different verb. For example, the sentence "Many students' futures are still assumed to be based on their test results." is acceptable. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. |
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