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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010Embedding
Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on sustainability in organisations, a project organised by the Prince's Trust. The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible to actively embed something in DNA? (I was bored, tired and cold so I left early and went home to embed myself in my duvet.)  SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of > discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (I was bored, tired and cold so I left early and went home to embed > myself in my duvet.) Signatureathel > Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of > discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible > to actively embed something in DNA? Short answer: no. It sounds as if people were using what they thought was trendy language to say things they didn't understand. I suppose, if one stretched a point, one could say that modern genetic engineering allows one to embed new functions in DNA (e.g. building RoundUp resistance into RoundUp-ready plants), but I've never heard a geneticist express it like that. However, what they are doing is inserting bits of DNA into existing DNA, whereas your speakers' words suggest inserting something of a different sort into a structure. Adding new bits of cloth to a duvet could just about be tolerated as an analogy to genetic manipulation, but adding something entirely different (such as your good self) to a duvet would stretch the analogy to breaking point. > (I was bored, tired and cold so I left early and went home to embed > myself in my duvet.) I think you chose the right sort of embedding. (Sorry about the previous post when I pressed "Send" before typing anything.) Signatureathel El Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:02:48 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió: > (Sorry about the previous post when I pressed "Send" before typing > anything.) There might be an option in your newsreader to prevent that. Mine for example, will warn "post contains mostly quoted text", and ask for confirmation. SignaturePablo > Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of > discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Laura > (emulate St. George for email) I can only add that I saw an advert recently for an "Embedded Engineer" and immediately concluded that the firm were just going through the motions of advertising a post, albeit one already, perhaps long since, having being taken. >The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence >uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in >the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible >to actively embed something in DNA? Sure. I work with people who do it all the time. (Although they are often more interested in taking stuff out than putting stuff in.) But (social) organizations don't have DNA. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 Garrett Wollman filted: >>The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence >>uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >often more interested in taking stuff out than putting stuff in.) But >(social) organizations don't have DNA. Not as such...organi{sz}ations are however made up of people, all of whom presumably have DNA, so the org itself must contain some as well.... Someone was obviously going for a 21st-century take on "dyed in the wool"...unfortunately there's already a 21st-century meaning of "embedded", referring to journalists acting as members of military forces to get closer to the action....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Garrett Wollman filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >referring to journalists acting as members of military forces to get closer to >the action....r Non-embedded journalists can also get closer to the action - lethally closer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Lloyd#Death There is a 20th-century use of "embedded" in computing: "embedded systems". It is possible that the word leaked out of this specialist use into management-speak. It is a sufficiently "attractive" word that it would need to leak only once to then spread virally (or should that be memetically?). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_systems#Variety_of_embedded_systems SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Someone was obviously going for a 21st-century take on "dyed in the >>wool"...unfortunately there's already a 21st-century meaning of "embedded", [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_systems#Variety_of_embedded_systems Olé! SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk yd#Death > There is a 20th-century use of "embedded" in computing: "embedded > systems". It is possible that the word leaked out of this specialist use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_systems#Variety_of_embedded_systems Used frequently on photographic forums these days, like this instruction on DPReview. We ask that images are embedded (displayed in message), rather than linked, for the convenience of all. >Someone was obviously going for a 21st-century take on "dyed in the >wool"...unfortunately there's already a 21st-century meaning of "embedded", >referring to journalists acting as members of military forces to get closer to >the action....r I thought it was intended to ensure that they followed the propaganda line. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes filted: >>Someone was obviously going for a 21st-century take on "dyed in the >>wool"...unfortunately there's already a 21st-century meaning of "embedded", >>referring to journalists acting as members of military forces to get closer to >>the action....r > >I thought it was intended to ensure that they followed the propaganda line. I mentioned the benefit to the journalist; your suggestion is the benefit to the military forces....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Steve Hayes filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I mentioned the benefit to the journalist; your suggestion is the benefit to the >military forces....r I wouldn't see it as much of a benefit to the journalists, though of course it would be of benefit to their political masters and spin doctors. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible >to actively embed something in DNA? Much as I hate what you have described there is some logic in it, even though few, if any, of the people could have explained what the heck they were rabbitting on about. DNA determines how a cell will behave in reaction to its immediate environment. The idea of embedding "sustainabilty" in the "DNA" of an organisation is that behaviour leading to sustainability should become an integral part of the way the organisation "is", its inherent nature, part of its essence. The word "embedded" is used in a similar way in respect of health and safety. http://www.hse.gov.uk/leadership/review.htm Review health and safety A formal boardroom review of health and safety performance is essential. It allows the board to establish whether the essential health and safety principles strong and active leadership, worker involvement, and assessment and review have been embedded in the organisation. "Embedding" is the opposite of attaching something as "bolt-on extra". http://www.fulcrumfirst.com/pages/Profile/Sustainability.htm At Fulcrum sustainability is integral to our design approach. It is inherent to our thinking and not a bolt-on extra. http://consult.north-norfolk.gov.uk/portal/planning/ssp/site_specific_proposals_ draft_plan?pointId=1224600438814 Sustainability Appraisal (SA) is a process to appraise the likely social, economic and environmental implications of development and is used throughout plan preparation to ensure that sustainability principles are embedded in the Plan rather than being considered as a 'bolt on' extra. http://trojan-horse.org/Safety The aim is for health and safety considerations to be treated as an essential, but normal part of a projects development not an afterthought or bolt-on extra. >(I was bored, tired and cold so I left early and went home to embed >myself in my duvet.) Very wise. Survival behaviour is embedded in your DNA SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of > discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (I was bored, tired and cold so I left early and went home to embed > myself in my duvet.) Yes. The best antidote must be to go to bed with Ian Watson's first novel. SignatureJames >> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes. The best antidote must be to go to bed with Ian Watson's first novel. Doesn't look my sort of book. At the moment, I'm going to bed each night with Vince Cable. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Doesn't look my sort of book. At the moment, I'm going to bed each night >with Vince Cable. Hmm. A mooring cable to prevent you falling out of bed? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Hmm. A mooring cable to prevent you falling out of bed? I go to bed with Comcast cable. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) "LFS" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote : >> Yes. The best antidote must be to go to bed with Ian Watson's first >> novel. >> > Doesn't look my sort of book. At the moment, I'm going to bed each night > with Vince Cable. I thought he had let it be known that he preferred "Vincent". Perhaps we should now await Edward Miliband, or Nicholas Clegg, or even Edward "It's not Brown; it's" Balls. Philip > "LFS" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote : >>> Yes. The best antidote must be to go to bed with Ian Watson's first [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Perhaps we should now await Edward Miliband, or Nicholas > Clegg, or even Edward "It's not Brown; it's" Balls. Well, he's Vince on both "The Storm" (best book I've read so far on the financial crisis, although Gillian Tett's "Fools Gold" is very good too) and his memoir "Free Radical". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >Philip Eden wrote: >> "LFS" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote : [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >financial crisis, although Gillian Tett's "Fools Gold" is very good >too) and his memoir "Free Radical". As a former scientist he presumably enjoyed the joke that a free radical is unionized. SignaturePaul Paul Wolff filted: >>Well, he's Vince on both "The Storm" (best book I've read so far on the >>financial crisis, although Gillian Tett's "Fools Gold" is very good >>too) and his memoir "Free Radical". >> >As a former scientist he presumably enjoyed the joke that a free radical >is unionized. I didn't catch the entire context, but on the financial channel the other day there was a crawl at the bottom of the screen saying something about "unionized electrical workers"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Paul Wolff filted: >>> Well, he's Vince on both "The Storm" (best book I've read so far on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > there was a crawl at the bottom of the screen saying something about "unionized > electrical workers"....r That doesn't shock me. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. Peter Moylan filted: >> I didn't catch the entire context, but on the financial channel the other day >>there was a crawl at the bottom of the screen saying something about "unionized >> electrical workers"....r >> >That doesn't shock me. Maybe if it had continued "...charged with battery, put in dry cells"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Doesn't look my sort of book. At the moment, I'm going to bed each night >with Vince Cable. You're very liberal with your affections. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You're very liberal with your affections. As I posted, I wondered who would make that observation. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> LFS wrote: >>>>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic >>>>> of discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > As I posted, I wondered who would make that observation. Neighbors notice, you know. SignatureSkitt (AmE) a very distant and discreet neighbor > The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence > uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in > the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible > to actively embed something in DNA? This metaphor is not derived from biology: it is derived from the military control of news reporters in the First Gulf War. Instead of being (loosely) controlled by the commanding general's press officer, and relatively free to investigate wherever they were allowed to go, they were (tightly) controlled by commanders of battalions or similar units, and not allowed to travel or investigate outside such units. These were called "embedded" reporters (and in some campaigns no unimbedded reporters were allowed.) Politicians as well as soldiers anxious to control reporting would like this to become the New Normal. Conference participants who wish to appear modern are tempted to borrow this jargon. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence >> uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > like this to become the New Normal. Conference participants > who wish to appear modern are tempted to borrow this jargon. Did I ever tell the story about how, during the First Gulf War, I used weather satellite images to illustrate how allegedly live television reports were broadcast anything between two and seven days after the event? The radio station I worked for at the time was then visited by a man from the MoD (that's what he said, anyway). I was very politely asked to mind my own business. Philip Eden On Dec 17, 10:28 pm, "Philip Eden" <philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom> wrote: > >> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence > >> uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > he said, anyway). I was very politely asked to mind my own > business. And to think the most exciting thing that happened to me then was that I had a job interview on the evening that war erupted on television. Much hilarity ensued during my time at the institution which did indeed hire me whenever this coincidence was mentioned, along the lines of 'Yeah, we were just distracted by the TV news and weren't really listening to you.' At least I think that was hilarity.... cheers, Stephanie >> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence >> uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > like this to become the New Normal. Conference participants > who wish to appear modern are tempted to borrow this jargon. Yes, well, tell that to the Prince of Wales, it's his project. My impression was that the notion of "embedding" journalists was first expressed in those terms far more recently, at the time of the invasion of Iraq. The biological metaphor of embedding in the body has been around in the context of organisational risk management for some time: the sustainability community seems to have been slow to catch on to this. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) Laura Spira: > The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence > uttered. Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in > the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible > to actively embed something in DNA? Sort of; see the signature quote. But "incorporate" would be a more appropriate word in the DNA context. "Embed" suggests surrounding on all sides, but the organization of DNA is linear. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "We are full of digital chain letters and msb@vex.net | warnings about marmalade." --Matt Ridley > Laura Spira: >> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > appropriate word in the DNA context. "Embed" suggests surrounding on > all sides, but the organization of DNA is linear. Double Helix? Irwell filted: >> Laura Spira: >>> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Double Helix? Better not...I'm driving....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >> Laura Spira: >>> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Double Helix? There's linear and then there's linear. The double helix is linear in the sense that a rope ladder is linear. The molecules/rungs follow one another in a fixed, linear, order regardless of the wiggliness of the helix/ladder. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Laura Spira: >>> The word "embedding" was used by every speaker in almost every sentence [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Double Helix? Before it's unscrolled. SignatureJohn Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:48:55 +0000 from LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk>: > Repeated calls were made for sustainability to be embedded in > the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: is it possible > to actively embed something in DNA? I don't know what "actively" means in that context, but it is indeed possible to embed something in DNA. It's done artificially in laboratories, and in the wild it's done by HIV and other retroviruses. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... >Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:48:55 +0000 from LFS ><laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk>: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >laboratories, and in the wild it's done by HIV and other >retroviruses. From a comment Laura made in another post I think she has in mind a different meaning of "embed". A pearl develops from a piece of grit "embedded" in an oyster. The grit is embedded but does not become an integral part of the oyster. Also, a bullet embedded in a wall does not become an inherent part of the wall. The grit and the bullet are "foreign objects" which retain their foreign-ness when embedded. In the case of an attitude, philosophy or process becoming "embedded in the DNA of an organisation" the whole point is that it ceases to be foreign. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of > discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > embedded in the DNA of organisations. I know nothing about genetics: > is it possible to actively embed something in DNA? Yes, but unless you do it very carefully indeed you are likely to knock out an important gene and break something (like the anti-proliferation mechanisms that prevent cancer for example: that's exactly how papiloma virus can cause cervical cancer). SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > mechanisms that prevent cancer for example: that's exactly how papiloma > virus can cause cervical cancer). Thanks for that observation, Nick: I am now pondering the unintended consequences of embedding sustainability. One example given of embedding was of an organisation that had removed all wastepaper baskets so that employees had to walk to place rubbish in designated receptacles, thus raising their sustainability awareness. I can think of quite a few negative consequences of such a policy. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > anti-proliferation mechanisms that prevent cancer for example: that's > exactly how papiloma virus can cause cervical cancer). Misuse of the term "DNA" is a strong candidate for my grump of the decade: I hear things like "Football is in my DNA", and think "No it isn't, you prat". I feel "embed" has become popular since it was applied to dependent war correspondents in the Persian Gulf; I won't be at all surprised to meet it in various extended uses. SignatureMike. >>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >to dependent war correspondents in the Persian Gulf; I won't be at all >surprised to meet it in various extended uses. I entirely agree about the misuse of DNA. I fail to see how organisations can have DNA, and a couple of weeks ago (shortly after this thread had begun) I read in a blog somewhere that something or other was embedded in God's DNA. The thought of God having DNA makes the mind boggle. And as for "embed" as applied to journalists, it strikes me as a new milspeak euphemism for "censorship", tarted up to make it sound good. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk ... >I entirely agree about the misuse of DNA. I fail to see how organisations can >have DNA, and a couple of weeks ago (shortly after this thread had begun) I >read in a blog somewhere that something or other was embedded in God's DNA. >The thought of God having DNA makes the mind boggle. Stands for "Do Not Ask". You have to take God on faith, I believe. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >Stands for "Do Not Ask". You have to take God on faith, I believe. So it's all in the jeans and chromographs. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> Yesterday I was at an event at which sustainability was the topic of >>> discussion - specifically the embedding of and reporting on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >to dependent war correspondents in the Persian Gulf; I won't be at all >surprised to meet it in various extended uses. Do "football is in my blood" and "football is in my genes" make you just as grumpy? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE |
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