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Discussion Groups / English Usage / December 2009The full (blank)
All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, but I can't think of it. Can anyone help me out?  SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... >All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, >but I can't think of it. > >Can anyone help me out? The full Monty. Complete explanation at: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/full%20monty.html SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper filted: >>All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >>"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The full Monty. Complete explanation at: >http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/full%20monty.html That doesn't refer to an explanation...Stan may be thinking of "the whole nine yards" (derivation disputed), which more generally means "everything at one's disposal"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >tony cooper filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >yards" (derivation disputed), which more generally means "everything at one's >disposal"....r It doesn't? First thing it says is: Meaning Complete, the whole thing. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > >"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The full Monty. Complete explanation at: > http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/full%20monty.html Brits (only) also use "the full English" meaning the traditional menu for a cooked breakfast (eggs, bacon, sausages, fried tomatos, mushrooms, fried bread or potatoes) as distinct from the "Continental breakfast," coffee and toast or brioche. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > Brits (only) also use "the full English" meaning the traditional > menu for a cooked breakfast (eggs, bacon, sausages, fried tomatos, > mushrooms, fried bread or potatoes) as distinct from the > "Continental breakfast," coffee and toast or brioche. No kipper? Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: According to usually reliable White Horse souses,... :|| Joe Fineman set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> Brits (only) also use "the full English" meaning the traditional >> menu for a cooked breakfast (eggs, bacon, sausages, fried tomatos, >> mushrooms, fried bread or potatoes) The ingredients can vary, and I have known baked beans, black pudding and hash browns as additional items at various hotels. Since I don't like either of the first two I insist upon their not being present on mine, if used - which at one hotel prompted shock-horror at the very idea of baked beans for breakfast. > No kipper? That's usually an alternative to the eggs, bacon, etc. combination. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Brits (only) also use "the full English" meaning the traditional > menu for a cooked breakfast (eggs, bacon, sausages, fried > tomatos, mushrooms, fried bread or potatoes) as distinct from > the "Continental breakfast," coffee and toast or brioche. > > -- > Don Phillipson > Carlsbad Springs > (Ottawa, Canada) My weekend breakfast (after the weekday toast and cereal) consists of bacon, egg, sausages, mushrooms and tomatoes, all fried and the fat/ juices soaked up by frying a couple of slices of bread. This has always in my 50+ years been referred to as a "cooked breakfast". I don't think that I heard the term "full English breakfast" until the 70s and was used by catering outlets to mean the cooked breakfast with the addition of cereal and toast "courses", it is a term that is not used in a domestic situation in the UK at all. The relatively (in my experience) recent custom of adding chips/fried potatoes/hash browns is also a commercial addition that would find no support in domestic kitchens. > On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:44 -0500, Stan Brown > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida I can remember the howls of derision here in Yorkshire in pubs and clubs when the film "The Full Monty" was released. We all agreed that the spelling should have been "The Full Monte". There was agreement that this referred to a stake in a card game and had been understood thus for decades (ie within the living memory of those taking part in the "ahem" debate). There was disagreement though I must admit whether the phrase referred to the pot in the middle of the table or an all-or-nothing bet where a player gambled his own entire stack. Redshade set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > I can remember the howls of derision here in Yorkshire in pubs and > clubs when the film "The Full Monty" was released. I'm waiting for the sequel, "The Full Monty's Double" :) > There was disagreement though I must admit whether the phrase referred > to the pot in the middle of the table or an all-or-nothing bet where a > player gambled his own entire stack. Does this meaning of "monte" derive from the word for "mountain" (referring figuratively to the pile of money in the centre of the table) or does it derive from a root meaning "show" (cf. montage, monstrance, mount in the sense of place in a frame for viewing) referring to money being "shown" on the table or the final "showdown"? Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Redshade set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > referring to money being "shown" on the table or the final > "showdown"? I wonder if the mountain in question could be the one named after Charles III of Monaco, famous for its casino. There may be no connection whatever with the card game called "monte", which the OED says is the Spanish word in the sense of the "heap or stock of cards left after each player has his share". The OED finds the suggested derivation of "the full Monty" from "monte" highly speculative. SignatureJames > > Redshade set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Whilst one may come across the odd copy of The Racing Post in the snooker halls of the West Riding the OED is usually nowhere to be found. It was agreed that it referred to card gaming of some sort and no one would have thought of either the General or the Tailor as a source for the term. Perhaps this was a local or regional usage? >> Redshade set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >> continuum: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >I wonder if the mountain in question could be the one named after >Charles III of Monaco, famous for its casino. Or Monte Cassino. Just joking. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Redshade set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > sense of place in a frame for viewing) referring to money being "shown" on > the table or the final "showdown"? I imagine it's very hard to be certain of the reason for names and terms in card games, but for what it's worth: The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology | 1996 | T. F. HOAD monte Spanish card game. XIX. -- Sp. monte mountain (MOUNT1), applied to the stock of cards left after each player has received his share. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? Tony's provided "the full monty," and Ron's mentioned "the whole nine yards." I offer something much less colorful: "[Here's] the full story." SignatureMaria Conlon > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? "The whole magilla (sp)"? http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15361 "Magilla, or more properly megillah, comes from the Hebrew word 'megillah' which refers specifically to the book of Esther (traditionally read in the synagogue during the festival of Purim) or to that of Ruth. From there is has been generalised to mean anything long and detailed (and ultimately boring) - Esther is filled with tiny details, recounted one on top of the other. The 'whole megilleh' thus means the whole boring rigmarole." >> All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >> "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >"The whole magilla (sp)"? I've heard Americans say "The whole enchilada". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a >>> phrase [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I've heard Americans say "The whole enchilada". Yes. That is new, of course (probably less than 30 years old). And to me it means more like something big that has to be all-inclusive. Like eating a submarine sandwich (we have had loads of threads about the various names of the sub). Or a 5 lb steak in competitive eating. I think "enchilada" sometimes is used in "big enchilada", which might mean the home office, the big boss, NYC or other big city. And then there is "the whole shebang". If the OP wants to have "full" as part of the idiom, there is "the full panoply", but that seems a bit festive or ritualistic. And "full sail", "full fathoms five". In full regalia. I Googled "full * mode" and see "full bull mode", "full screen mode", "full meltdown mode" and "full burst mode" on the first page.. I introduced "mode" because, while I can't recall the particular usage, I have a mental image of an irate woman approaching, all flags flying... Hmm. The sea-going images keep piling up. SignaturePat Durkin durkinpa at msn.com Wisconsin > "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote >> I've heard Americans say "The whole enchilada". >> > Yes. That is new, of course (probably less than 30 years old). At least 40, judging from the fact that that was the title of a 1969 Trini Lopez album. The _NY Times_ archive claims that it's used in a very text-dense ad for _Bonnie and Clyde_ on 8/14/1967. But I don't see evidence for it being much older than that. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The great thing about Microsoft 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |dominating the world is that Palo Alto, CA 94304 |there's no shortage of support |opportunities. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Sam Alvis (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > > "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > very text-dense ad for _Bonnie and Clyde_ on 8/14/1967. But I don't > see evidence for it being much older than that. I heard the expression for the first time sometime in the 1960s in a phone call from a former cow orker who was originally from California and had returned there. I know it was after 1963 (because of a job transfer) and probably was related to an RFP for major software development that the FAA was going to issue around 1966. I remember thinking how peculiarly Californian the expression was. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, >but I can't think of it. > >Can anyone help me out? full tilt boogie: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=full%20tilt%20boogie SignatureJohn >All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, >but I can't think of it. > >Can anyone help me out? "The full dope." Cheers - Ian (BrE: Yorks., Hants.) > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? The full story. > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? Full disclosure? SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? The Full S.P.? (Starting Prices). Regards Jonathan >All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, >but I can't think of it. > >Can anyone help me out? The full lowdown? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase >>"the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The full lowdown? I've certainly heard that one more than once. Stan Brown set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? Here are a few suggestions, with subjective assessments: gen <uh-uuuuuh> lowdown <uh-uuuuuh> spec <ping> 2% works <ping> 7% shooting match <ping> 9% monty <ping> 63% Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:44 -0500 from Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>: > All day long this has been bothering me. I'm sure there's a phrase > "the full (something)", meaning a complete and detailed explanation, > but I can't think of it. > > Can anyone help me out? Thanks to those who responded. Of the responses, "the full story" seems closest to my meaning, though I thought there was a more colorful phrase". I'm aware of "the full monty" (or "monte"), but since the movie came out I don't think that phrase connotes an explanation any more. I liked "the whole megillah". SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... >Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:44 -0500 from Stan Brown ><the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I liked "the whole megillah". That, to me, indicates an *overly* complete explanation. "Gantse Megillah" ("Megillah" is Hebrew for "scroll") refers to reading the entire Book of Esther during Purim. OK, only two sentences, but not being Jewish I've probably made at least one mistake. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:44 -0500 from Stan Brown >><the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > OK, only two sentences, but not being Jewish I've probably made at > least one mistake. Not a mistake, but a couple of clarifications: while "megillah" is ultimately Hebrew for "scroll", in the phrase "gantse megile" ("whole megillah"), it's Yiddish and refers to any of the five books read (though not by all Jewish communities) during the festivals: Esther (Purim), Song of Songs (Passover), Ruth (Shavuot), Lamentations (Tisha B'Av), and Ecclesiastes (Sukkot). And the phrase isn't by any means limited to explanations. I'd say it's pretty much equivalent to "the whole nine yards", and is often applied to things like ceremonies or banquets. It can be used approvingly. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Sorry, captain. Convenient 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |technobabble levels are dangerously Palo Alto, CA 94304 |low. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:44 -0500 from Stan Brown > <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm>: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > http://OakRoadSystems.com > Shikata ga nai... Ever heard of "the whole sh-bang" or, as I've recently seen it written "the whole she bang"? aquachimp wrote, in <56d727d9-a003-41de-995a-ff70f3fb0644@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> on Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:09:53 -0800 (PST): > Ever heard of "the whole sh-bang" or, as I've recently seen it written > "the whole she bang"? I have but when I use it I spell it shebang. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >> Ever heard of "the whole sh-bang" or, as I've recently seen it >> written "the whole she bang"? > > I have but when I use it I spell it shebang. Ah, memories of William Hung ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSeNDklE0Vc&feature=related SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>> Ever heard of "the whole sh-bang" or, as I've recently seen it >>> written "the whole she bang"? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Ah, memories of William Hung ... >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSeNDklE0Vc&feature=related Ah yes. Happy (?) memories. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) |
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