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Waugh: marriage settlement (England, 1920s)

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Marius Hancu - 31 Dec 2009 04:26 GMT
Hello:

Anyone having expertise in upper-class marriage settlements cca 1923,
in England?:-)

This is all prenuptial.

What is a trustee stock? Is this something like locking part of lady's
money in trust fund, protected by some conditions, against predatory
husbands?

Was _the man_ supposed to provide any dowry (see the "like sum from
him")?

What's this thing about Rex getting a life insurance? How would that
contribute some funds for his "like sum" for that trust, I mean before
his death?

-----
[Rex wants to marry Julia in order to get his hands ASAP on her dowry,
but she's protected by her family's lawyers]

There was trouble about the marriage settlement with which Julia
refused to interest herself. The lawyers were in despair. Rex
absolutely refused to settle any capital. 'What do I want with trustee
stock?' he asked.

...

Rex hoped to have the whole of Julian's dowry in his hands, to make it
work for him. The lawyers insisted on tying it up, but they could not
get, as they asked, a like sum from him. Finally, grudgingly, he
agreed to insure his life, after explaining at length to the lawyers
that this was merely a device for putting part of his legitimate
profits into other people's pockets;

Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited, p. 775
----
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Dec 2009 12:11 GMT
>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>money in trust fund, protected by some conditions, against predatory
>husbands?

According to:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Trustee+stock?r=66

   Trustee stock\ (Finance) High-grade stock in which trust funds may
   be legally invested. [Colloq.]

This gives the same definition taken from _Webster 1913 Suppl._
http://www.freedictionary.org/?Query=trustee%20stock

>Was _the man_ supposed to provide any dowry (see the "like sum from
>him")?
>
>What's this thing about Rex getting a life insurance? How would that
>contribute some funds for his "like sum" for that trust, I mean before
>his death?

Possibly. I am definitely not an expert in this field. I understand that
it is possible to "assign" a life insurance policy to someone else. The
assignee becomes the beneficiary and "owner" of the policy. A crucial
point is that only the owner can cancel the policy. So if A takes out
life insurance on A's own life and then assigns the policy to B that is
an irrevocable transfer of ownership from A to B. However, A is still
responsible for paying the premiums.

Such a life insurance policy is of value even while the insured person
is still alive. It can be used as collateral for a loan.

>-----
>[Rex wants to marry Julia in order to get his hands ASAP on her dowry,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited, p. 775
>----

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Marius Hancu - 31 Dec 2009 14:00 GMT
On Dec 31, 7:11 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> >What's this thing about Rex getting a life insurance? How would that
> >contribute some funds for his "like sum" for that trust, I mean before
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Such a life insurance policy is of value even while the insured person
> is still alive. It can be used as collateral for a loan.

Very interesting. Didn't know that.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Cheryl - 31 Dec 2009 12:11 GMT
> Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> Thanks.
> Marius Hancu

My knowledge, such as it is, is based more on fiction than actual laws
or research.

My understanding is that in wealthy families, the wife's family would be
expected to provide a dowry, which might well be tied up legally so that
only she, or possibly her children, would ever have access to it. A
trustee would manage the investments, not her husband. Also, the husband
would be expected to 'settle' money on his wife, which would be used to
provide for her and any children if she were widowed. Again, this money,
since it's intended for the wife's use, might be put into a trust so the
husband couldn't spend it. In this case, it sounds like Rex wanted to
control all of his new family's financial resources and refused to
settle actual money or investments on his wife, offering an insurance
policy instead. And he complained because his wife's family's lawyers
wouldn't give him control of the money his wife's family were offering
for her future financial security.

Laws giving married women in the UK the right to control their own money
date to the previous century, IIRC, but where a lot of money was
involved, there were lengthy negotiations about the source and control
of money intended for the lifetime care of the would-be bride, with
would-be husbands wanting to control it all as heads of the family and
the bride's relatives (especially if they distrusted the prospective
groom) wanting to ensure that her financial future was secure.

I wouldn't be suprised if the same thing happens in marriages of wealthy
people today, but I don't know first-hand. Most people I know who get
married do so with only their own financial resources, and no vast
chunks of family money that has to be protected by trustees.

Signature

Cheryl

Don Phillipson - 31 Dec 2009 13:22 GMT
> > -----
> > [Rex wants to marry Julia in order to get his hands ASAP on her dowry,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >
> > Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited, p. 775

MH's interpretation is exactly right:
> > Rex hoped to have the whole of Julian's dowry in his hands, to make it
> > work for him. The lawyers insisted on tying it up, but they could not
> > get, as they asked, a like sum from him. Finally, grudgingly, he
> > agreed to insure his life . . .

> Laws giving married women in the UK the right to control their own money
> date to the previous century, IIRC, but where a lot of money was
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the bride's relatives (especially if they distrusted the prospective
> groom) wanting to ensure that her financial future was secure.

For background to the Married Women's Property Act (1882) see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_Women%27s_Property_Act
(not excellent, but to my eye adequate.)   In the period of Jane
Austen and Dickens novels, marriage transferred a wife's wealth
to the legal control of the husband.  If she earned money (e.g.
royalties from a book of her authorship) the husband owned and
could simply collect these earnings.  If she owned a house, the
husband was free to mortgage or sell it without her knowledge
or consent:  for scandalous details see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Norton

Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Jonathan Morton - 31 Dec 2009 13:26 GMT
> My knowledge, such as it is, is based more on fiction than actual laws or
> research.
>
> Laws giving married women in the UK the right to control their own money
> date to the previous century, IIRC.

Yes, Married Women's Property Acts 1870 and (more importantly) 1882.

On the specific point raised by Marius, Trustees were (and to a certain
extent still are) restricted in the investments they could make, so tended
to be stuck with safe but stodgy stocks. This wouldn't have suited Rex's
"get rich quick" mentality.

I can't remember who Rex is said to be based on - probably Beaverbrook or
Channon or someone like that.

Regards

Jonathan
Nick Spalding - 31 Dec 2009 15:54 GMT
Jonathan Morton wrote, in <nvSdnVSNWI0aO6HWnZ2dnUVZ8gmdnZ2d@bt.com>
on Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:26:30 -0000:

> > My knowledge, such as it is, is based more on fiction than actual laws or
> > research.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I can't remember who Rex is said to be based on - probably Beaverbrook or
> Channon or someone like that.

Brendan Bracken has also been suggested.
Signature

Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

Apteryx - 31 Dec 2009 22:07 GMT
> Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited, p. 775
> ----

The conflict is because Rex is a businessman and wants to have all his
available capital (and he hoped, Julia's) used in his business. But the
custom in the upper classes was for the wife to have a sum settled in
trusts by both her father and her prospective husband for her benefit
and that of her children. These trust funds had to be invested in only
the safest, and hence low-yielding investments. Rex thought he could get
a better return on capital in his own business than the 2 or 3% interest
those investments would return.

Apteryx
 
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