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Trent Park

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Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 12:36 GMT
Hello:

I read about Trent Park in Waugh. Now I find on the Web that:

----
Trent Park was the name of the large estate of the extremely rich
Member of Parliament Sir Philip Sassoon (1888-1939), cousin of the
poet Siegfried. It lay on the edge of North London. Sir Philip liked
to keep exotic wildlife like muntjak, penguins and flamingoes, and he
certainly had extensive conservatories and hothouses where tropical
greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University
of Middlesex.
-----

How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for
Philip Sassoon?
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Amethyst Deceiver - 02 Jan 2010 13:15 GMT
>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for
>Philip Sassoon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Park gives a potted history.
As does http://www.enfield.gov.uk/448/cockfosters%20a%20history.htm
Django Cat - 02 Jan 2010 14:13 GMT
> Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University
> of Middlesex.

I know it well.  Mrs Cat and I both studied at Middlesex, and she was
based on the Trent Park site, which was a centre for teacher training,
though we didn't actually meet until a year after we both left.  It was
well known that the Sassoon family had lived there - and the WW1 poets
are always heroes to literature undergraduates.  She's just told me the
story was that they had a private zoo on the Trent Park estate at one
point.  I've an idea Edith Sitwell was connected with Trent as well -
I'm sure the net can reveal more details.

> -----
>
> How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for
> Philip Sassoon?

Most likely as a tax settlement.  The society Waugh portrays is not the
one we live in now.  As many of the landed families slowly ran out of
cash over the course of the 20th century, estates were sold off and big
country houses passed to other uses.  Trent isn't the only example of
one such being used as the home for an educational institution - on a
less grand scale, I studied drama at Middlesex' then Ivy House site in
Hampstead, former home of Anna Pavlova.  Last year I worked for Bath
Spa University, where the main campus, Newton Park, has a very similar
set up to Trent Park, with a park built round a once private country
house:

http://www.bathspa.ac.uk/about/campuses/newton-park/ .

I’m currently reading a fascinating book about the 'Lost Gardens of
Heligan' -

http://tinyurl.com/yzaqgc7
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Gardens-Heligan-Tim-Smit/dp/0575402458/ref=
sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262441246&sr=8-2 .

Heligan was a country estate in Cornwall with especially beautiful
gardens.  The estate supported an entire, almost feudal, community but
never recovered from the loss of manpower of the First World War.  The
original family finally sold off the house in the 1930s; it was
converted into separate apartments and the huge gardens were completely
abandoned, until a project began in the 1990s to restore them, and now
the 'Lost Gardens of Heligan' are a very successful tourist attraction:

http://www.heligan.com/

We visited during the summer; not just an especially beautiful
landscape, but also a fascinating journey into a completely different
society, now just at the edge of living memory.

DC
--
Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:13 GMT
> I know it well.  Mrs Cat and I both studied at Middlesex

Glad to hear that.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 02 Jan 2010 15:28 GMT
>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for
>Philip Sassoon?

Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses
and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could
not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid
for the house and estate may no longer exist.

Some of the larger of such houses are known as "stately homes". As
Wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stately_homes

   These country houses are usually distinguished from true "castles",
   being of later date, and having been built purely as residences.
   These houses were a status symbol for the great families of England,
   who competed with each other to provide hospitality for members of
   the Royal Household.
   
   Famous architects and landscape architects ... were employed to
   incorporate new styles into the buildings. Great art and furniture
   collections were built up and displayed in the houses.
   
   The agricultural collapse towards the end of the nineteenth century,
   the First World War and then World War II changed the fortunes of
   many houses and their owners, and now they remain as a curious mix
   of living museums, part-ruined houses and castles, and grand family
   estates.
   
   The following organisations are responsible for the upkeep of
   numerous stately homes:
   
       * English Heritage
       * National Trust
       * Treasure Houses of England
       * The Landmark Trust
       * Historic Scotland
       * National Trust for Scotland
   
   However, many stately homes are owned and managed by private
   individuals or by trusts. The costs of running a stately home are
   legendarily high. Many owners rent out their homes for use as film
   and television sets as a means of extra income, thus many of them
   are familiar sights to people who have never visited them in person.
   The grounds often contain other tourist attractions, such as safari
   parks, funfairs or museums.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Nick - 02 Jan 2010 15:41 GMT
> Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses
> and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could
> not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid
> for the house and estate may no longer exist.
>
> Some of the larger of such houses are known as "stately homes".

As Noël Coward said:

Though the fact that they have to be rebuilt
And frequently mortgaged to the hilt
Is inclined to take the gilt
Off the gingerbread,
Signature

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Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:08 GMT
> > Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses
> > and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Is inclined to take the gilt
> Off the gingerbread,

Was there really gilt on gingerbread?

Thank you all.
Marius Hancu
HVS - 02 Jan 2010 16:17 GMT
On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote

> On Jan 2, 10:41 am, Nick <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Was there really gilt on gingerbread?

It would be unusual to find gingerbread on a stately home in the
first place -- it's more a vernacular decoration than a high-end
thing -- so I think Coward's being slyly playful rather than
literal.

Signature

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Mike Lyle - 02 Jan 2010 19:53 GMT
> On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> thing -- so I think Coward's being slyly playful rather than
> literal.

I believe gingerbread _was_ sometimes decorated with pinchbeck in the
form of "Dutch" gold leaf, like the marzipan balls on a Simnel cake;
maybe wealthy customers got real gold, which would have been a lot less
toxic. The decorative carvings on certain sailing ships were known as
"gingerbread work", and that was certainly gilded as much as the captain
could afford. "Knocking the gilt off the gingerbread" is a pretty common
expression for spoiling a good thing. Which of the two practices it
alludes to, the reader must decide for herself --though I rather think
it's both.

Signature

Mike.

LFS - 03 Jan 2010 09:23 GMT
>> On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> alludes to, the reader must decide for herself --though I rather think
> it's both.

I'm with Harvey on this, I've always thought it was Coward being clever
and I've always assumed that the gingerbread in question was house
decoration rather than cake although I didn't know about ships having it
too.

I have been given some *very* expensive Belgian chocolates, some of
which seem to be scattered with gold leaf. They look very pretty but, to
be honest, I've enjoyed the bargain box from Thornton's more.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:12 GMT
On Jan 2, 10:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
.

>Many owners rent out their homes for use as film
>     and television sets as a means of extra income

As Duke of Northumberland's, if I remember well, for  "Gosford Park."

Marius Hancu
Nick Spalding - 02 Jan 2010 16:22 GMT
Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote, in
<4pmuj5di98e1nbcet8lcgtakr35aca8r5q@4ax.com>
on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:28:42 +0000:

> >Hello:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>     The grounds often contain other tourist attractions, such as safari
>     parks, funfairs or museums.

The 1981 TV Brideshead Revisited used Castle Howard as Brideshead.
Signature

Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

Robin Bignall - 02 Jan 2010 22:42 GMT
>>Hello:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid
>for the house and estate may no longer exist.

Loss of fortune might have done for some, but after WWII I suspect
that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their
estates.
Signature

Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England

James Hogg - 02 Jan 2010 22:51 GMT
>>> Hello:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their
> estates.

I see from Wikipedia that Philip Sassoon had no heirs. The baronetage
became extinct with him. He was the third Baronet Sassoon of
Kensington Gore.

So today I have learned that the compound name once invented by "Private
Eye" makes a perfect circle: Kensington Gore Vidal Sassoon.

Signature

James

franzi - 02 Jan 2010 23:12 GMT
> >>> Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> So today I have learned that the compound name once invented by "Private
> Eye" makes a perfect circle: Kensington Gore Vidal Sassoon.

A sassoon is a saucy and lively woodwind instrument. The original
fragrant examples were made from the wood of the sassafras tree, but
then it was noticed that musicians were more clapped with other woods.
--
franzi
franzi - 02 Jan 2010 23:35 GMT
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:28:42 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their
> estates.

That is possible, but there were other factors. Here's an example:

Death duties have to be paid.

A capital sum is needed for the widow's maintenance trust, and to buy
her a smaller but respectable dwelling, with only two or three staff.

A multitude of adult children, each with their own families, need to
be paid their individual shares of the estate.

The house itself needs many hands to run it, and they are not to be
found at an affordable wage.

The home farm is too small to be efficient.

And when it comes to be sold, there is no buyer. Who would want such a
thing? Today there would be a queue of Russian oligarchs outside
Humberts, but back then the best that could be found was the local
council, who might buy it for a school.
--
franzi
Robert Bannister - 02 Jan 2010 23:29 GMT
> Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University
> of Middlesex.

It was a teachers' training college when my sister went there c.1962.
Signature


Rob Bannister

 
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