Trent Park
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Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 12:36 GMT Hello:
I read about Trent Park in Waugh. Now I find on the Web that:
---- Trent Park was the name of the large estate of the extremely rich Member of Parliament Sir Philip Sassoon (1888-1939), cousin of the poet Siegfried. It lay on the edge of North London. Sir Philip liked to keep exotic wildlife like muntjak, penguins and flamingoes, and he certainly had extensive conservatories and hothouses where tropical greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University of Middlesex. -----
How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for Philip Sassoon? -- Thanks. Marius Hancu
Amethyst Deceiver - 02 Jan 2010 13:15 GMT >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for >Philip Sassoon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Park gives a potted history. As does http://www.enfield.gov.uk/448/cockfosters%20a%20history.htm
Django Cat - 02 Jan 2010 14:13 GMT > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University > of Middlesex. I know it well. Mrs Cat and I both studied at Middlesex, and she was based on the Trent Park site, which was a centre for teacher training, though we didn't actually meet until a year after we both left. It was well known that the Sassoon family had lived there - and the WW1 poets are always heroes to literature undergraduates. She's just told me the story was that they had a private zoo on the Trent Park estate at one point. I've an idea Edith Sitwell was connected with Trent as well - I'm sure the net can reveal more details.
> ----- > > How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for > Philip Sassoon? Most likely as a tax settlement. The society Waugh portrays is not the one we live in now. As many of the landed families slowly ran out of cash over the course of the 20th century, estates were sold off and big country houses passed to other uses. Trent isn't the only example of one such being used as the home for an educational institution - on a less grand scale, I studied drama at Middlesex' then Ivy House site in Hampstead, former home of Anna Pavlova. Last year I worked for Bath Spa University, where the main campus, Newton Park, has a very similar set up to Trent Park, with a park built round a once private country house:
http://www.bathspa.ac.uk/about/campuses/newton-park/ .
Im currently reading a fascinating book about the 'Lost Gardens of Heligan' -
http://tinyurl.com/yzaqgc7 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Gardens-Heligan-Tim-Smit/dp/0575402458/ref= sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262441246&sr=8-2 .
Heligan was a country estate in Cornwall with especially beautiful gardens. The estate supported an entire, almost feudal, community but never recovered from the loss of manpower of the First World War. The original family finally sold off the house in the 1930s; it was converted into separate apartments and the huge gardens were completely abandoned, until a project began in the 1990s to restore them, and now the 'Lost Gardens of Heligan' are a very successful tourist attraction:
http://www.heligan.com/
We visited during the summer; not just an especially beautiful landscape, but also a fascinating journey into a completely different society, now just at the edge of living memory.
DC --
Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:13 GMT > I know it well. Mrs Cat and I both studied at Middlesex Glad to hear that. Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 02 Jan 2010 15:28 GMT >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >How did it get to the University of Middlesex? No inheritors for >Philip Sassoon? Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid for the house and estate may no longer exist.
Some of the larger of such houses are known as "stately homes". As Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stately_homes
These country houses are usually distinguished from true "castles", being of later date, and having been built purely as residences. These houses were a status symbol for the great families of England, who competed with each other to provide hospitality for members of the Royal Household. Famous architects and landscape architects ... were employed to incorporate new styles into the buildings. Great art and furniture collections were built up and displayed in the houses. The agricultural collapse towards the end of the nineteenth century, the First World War and then World War II changed the fortunes of many houses and their owners, and now they remain as a curious mix of living museums, part-ruined houses and castles, and grand family estates. The following organisations are responsible for the upkeep of numerous stately homes: * English Heritage * National Trust * Treasure Houses of England * The Landmark Trust * Historic Scotland * National Trust for Scotland However, many stately homes are owned and managed by private individuals or by trusts. The costs of running a stately home are legendarily high. Many owners rent out their homes for use as film and television sets as a means of extra income, thus many of them are familiar sights to people who have never visited them in person. The grounds often contain other tourist attractions, such as safari parks, funfairs or museums.
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Nick - 02 Jan 2010 15:41 GMT > Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses > and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could > not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid > for the house and estate may no longer exist. > > Some of the larger of such houses are known as "stately homes". As Noël Coward said:
Though the fact that they have to be rebuilt And frequently mortgaged to the hilt Is inclined to take the gilt Off the gingerbread,
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Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:08 GMT > > Many old estates and houses have been sold to universities, businesses > > and heritage organisations. In many cases the owners/inheritors could [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Is inclined to take the gilt > Off the gingerbread, Was there really gilt on gingerbread?
Thank you all. Marius Hancu
HVS - 02 Jan 2010 16:17 GMT On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote
> On Jan 2, 10:41 am, Nick <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Was there really gilt on gingerbread? It would be unusual to find gingerbread on a stately home in the first place -- it's more a vernacular decoration than a high-end thing -- so I think Coward's being slyly playful rather than literal.
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Mike Lyle - 02 Jan 2010 19:53 GMT > On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > thing -- so I think Coward's being slyly playful rather than > literal. I believe gingerbread _was_ sometimes decorated with pinchbeck in the form of "Dutch" gold leaf, like the marzipan balls on a Simnel cake; maybe wealthy customers got real gold, which would have been a lot less toxic. The decorative carvings on certain sailing ships were known as "gingerbread work", and that was certainly gilded as much as the captain could afford. "Knocking the gilt off the gingerbread" is a pretty common expression for spoiling a good thing. Which of the two practices it alludes to, the reader must decide for herself --though I rather think it's both.
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LFS - 03 Jan 2010 09:23 GMT >> On 02 Jan 2010, Marius Hancu wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > alludes to, the reader must decide for herself --though I rather think > it's both. I'm with Harvey on this, I've always thought it was Coward being clever and I've always assumed that the gingerbread in question was house decoration rather than cake although I didn't know about ships having it too.
I have been given some *very* expensive Belgian chocolates, some of which seem to be scattered with gold leaf. They look very pretty but, to be honest, I've enjoyed the bargain box from Thornton's more.
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Marius Hancu - 02 Jan 2010 16:12 GMT On Jan 2, 10:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: .
>Many owners rent out their homes for use as film > and television sets as a means of extra income As Duke of Northumberland's, if I remember well, for "Gosford Park."
Marius Hancu
Nick Spalding - 02 Jan 2010 16:22 GMT Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote, in <4pmuj5di98e1nbcet8lcgtakr35aca8r5q@4ax.com> on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:28:42 +0000:
> >Hello: > > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > The grounds often contain other tourist attractions, such as safari > parks, funfairs or museums. The 1981 TV Brideshead Revisited used Castle Howard as Brideshead.
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Robin Bignall - 02 Jan 2010 22:42 GMT >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >not afford to maintain them. The family's source of income which paid >for the house and estate may no longer exist. Loss of fortune might have done for some, but after WWII I suspect that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their estates.
 Signature Robin (BrE) Herts, England
James Hogg - 02 Jan 2010 22:51 GMT >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their > estates. I see from Wikipedia that Philip Sassoon had no heirs. The baronetage became extinct with him. He was the third Baronet Sassoon of Kensington Gore.
So today I have learned that the compound name once invented by "Private Eye" makes a perfect circle: Kensington Gore Vidal Sassoon.
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franzi - 02 Jan 2010 23:12 GMT > >>> Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > So today I have learned that the compound name once invented by "Private > Eye" makes a perfect circle: Kensington Gore Vidal Sassoon. A sassoon is a saucy and lively woodwind instrument. The original fragrant examples were made from the wood of the sassafras tree, but then it was noticed that musicians were more clapped with other woods. -- franzi
franzi - 02 Jan 2010 23:35 GMT > On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:28:42 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that death duties accounted for many of these families losing their > estates. That is possible, but there were other factors. Here's an example:
Death duties have to be paid.
A capital sum is needed for the widow's maintenance trust, and to buy her a smaller but respectable dwelling, with only two or three staff.
A multitude of adult children, each with their own families, need to be paid their individual shares of the estate.
The house itself needs many hands to run it, and they are not to be found at an affordable wage.
The home farm is too small to be efficient.
And when it comes to be sold, there is no buyer. Who would want such a thing? Today there would be a queue of Russian oligarchs outside Humberts, but back then the best that could be found was the local council, who might buy it for a school. -- franzi
Robert Bannister - 02 Jan 2010 23:29 GMT > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > greenery was abundant. Today Trent Park is a campus of the University > of Middlesex. It was a teachers' training college when my sister went there c.1962.
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Rob Bannister
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