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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010Railway handcar
I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically a four-wheeled platform with a pump-like lever to make it go. Googling a bit, I came across "handcar" and thought "That must be it". Then I saw "jigger", which sounded familiar; I then wondered if that's the term I was trying to remember -- but to be honest I'm not sure if I'm imagining my familiarity with the word. Any ideas how common "jigger" is, as opposed to "handcar", or the geographical spread of the terms? Is "jigger" a Canadian term?  SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered >railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Is "jigger" a Canadian term? FWIW, google images shows the object mentioned many times over for "handcar", but not even once in the first eight pages for "jigger". SignatureJohn HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered > railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Is "jigger" a Canadian term? Xpost to uk.railway for the correct BrE expression. One such contraption has a starring role in my favourite film, "The Great St. Trinians Train Robbery". (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) Then there's the draisine. I've pedalled one of those. Or maybe I let my blind brother-in-law do most of the work while I just made sure he didn't crash into the one in front. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine SignatureJames James Hogg wrote, in <hho9p7$9po$1@news.eternal-september.org> on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:19:17 +0100: > > HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine One of those featured in the first episode of Three Men Go To Ireland on BBC2 on Wednesday. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE On 02 Jan 2010, Nick Spalding wrote > James Hogg wrote, in <hho9p7$9po$1@news.eternal-september.org> > on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:19:17 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > One of those featured in the first episode of Three Men Go To > Ireland on BBC2 on Wednesday. Full circle: that's what prompted me to wonder what I used to call the hand-powered things. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> James Hogg wrote: >>>> HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >>>> continuum: >>>>> I was trying last night to remember the name of those >>>>> man-powered railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Full circle: that's what prompted me to wonder what I used to call > the hand-powered things. Hah! A couple of messages back I was reminded of what I used to call them -- drezīna. That's Latvian, of course. SignatureSkitt (AmE) AUE's token Latvian HVS wrote, in <Xns9CF4DAA7A36CFwhhvans@news.albasani.net> on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:29:40 GMT: > On 02 Jan 2010, Nick Spalding wrote > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Full circle: that's what prompted me to wonder what I used to call > the hand-powered things. I wondered about that when I read your OP. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > > HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > -- > James Amazing, I, often, heard of a drasine as a prototype of the bicycle but never as a railway cycle. Come to think of it, I have never really heard a distinct term for a railway cycle before. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply The term I've heard is "pump trolley". Apparently (BICBW) the nickname for them in the USA was "Gandy Dancer". There's an example of one (not sure if it's usable) at the East Anglia Railway Museum at Chappel and Wakes Colne. >> HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >sure if it's usable) at the East Anglia Railway Museum at Chappel and >Wakes Colne. The US "gandy dancer" was a person, not a hand car. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gan1.htm SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >The term I've heard is "pump trolley". Apparently (BICBW) the nickname >for them in the USA was "Gandy Dancer". There's an example of one (not >sure if it's usable) at the East Anglia Railway Museum at Chappel and >Wakes Colne. There used to be one on external display at Tenterden Town station on the Kent and East Sussex Railway. In the 1990s I saw an advert for a preserved railway that offered visitors the opportunity to propel one along a piece of track, but for the life of me I cannot recall which railway it was. > The term I've heard is "pump trolley". Apparently (BICBW) the nickname > for them in the USA was "Gandy Dancer". There's an example of one (not > sure if it's usable) at the East Anglia Railway Museum at Chappel and Pump trolleys were commonplace in the American West (wilderness) a hundred years ago. The point of them was that they were light and strong enough so they could be derailed and removed from the line by two or three men using only manual power. And then rerailed after the (infrequent, slow and noisy) train has passed by. I believe they were derailed by tilting them until the wheel axles were substantially vertical and then rotating the entire device about a vertical axis by pivoting on a single flanged wheel. I never heard of a loco running into one, but it must have happened, presumable the cow-catcher would dispose of it. As far as I knew the Gandy Dancers were the workers (I could easily be wrong on this), and equivalent I suppose to a British platelayer crew. Because of the inherent dangers and greater distances in the Wild West railway workers never work alone, at all times at least one of the crew would be alert to possible danger (and of course, much as today in the wild parts, everyone was armed not least to protect against fauna such as bears). Mis filted: >Because of the inherent dangers and greater distances in the >Wild West railway workers never work alone, at all times at least one >of the crew would be alert to possible danger (and of course, much as >today in the wild parts, everyone was armed not least to protect >against fauna such as bears). Not bears--pumas!...they lived in the cravices!... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfl2o44zb0 ....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? In message <da94522c-5dd6-43e6-8f2f-bb55e843f8e6@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, at 12:24:31 on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, The Gardener <Garden6089@live.co.uk> remarked: >the nickname for them in the USA was "Gandy Dancer" That's also the name of a railway hobbyshop in Atlanta[1], which may be the same place that has this explanation on their website (Gandy made the tools that track workers used): http://www.gandydancer.com/pages/About%20Gandy%20Dancer.html And there's a print for sale on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=390135657875 [1] Appropriately, close to the main railway line to the north, and near the end of the Marta Line whose southern terminus is the airport. SignatureRoland Perry > In message > <da94522c-5dd6-43e6-8f2f-bb55e843f8e6@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the same place that has this explanation on their website (Gandy made > the tools that track workers used): Confusingly, a 'Gandy Dancer' is also a person, viz. a platelayer or track labourer. There's a fine statue of one at Flagstaff station in Arizona which I visited last year. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM5KBX_The_Gandy_Dancer_Flagstaff_AZ Charlie >> That's also the name of a railway hobbyshop in Atlanta[1], which may >>be the same place that has this explanation on their website (Gandy >>made the tools that track workers used): > >Confusingly, a 'Gandy Dancer' is also a person, viz. a platelayer or >track labourer. Confusingly, that was exactly the explanation I was linking to in my posting. http://www.gandydancer.com/pages/About%20Gandy%20Dancer.html >There's a fine statue of one at Flagstaff station in Arizona which I >visited last year. > >http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM5KBX_The_Gandy_Dancer_Flagstaff_AZ SignatureRoland Perry > (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) The only JIGGER I know is a back alley in Liverpool, hence a "jigger rabbit" is an alley cat:-) George >> (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) > > The only JIGGER I know is a back alley in Liverpool, hence a "jigger > rabbit" is an alley cat:-) > > George AFAIK a jigger is one of those annoying little plastic pots of UHT milk that splashes all over the place when you try to open it. Matt. >>> (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Matt. No, no, it's one of those metal thingies, often shaped like a fish, with hooks, and used to jig cod or squid. That is, when it isn't a tiny glass used to measure liquor for those who don't pour the stuff straight from the bottle. Seriously, I've never heard the term for one of those railway handcars. SignatureCheryl >>>> (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Seriously, I've never heard the term for one of those railway handcars. When I was kid in N. London a jigger was a soap-box cart (aka go-cart), the sort my Uncle Fred was on when it stopped under a horse that responded by giving him an unexpected shower. It certainly wasn't a railway hand cart (not handcar). On 03 Jan 2010, Cheryl wrote >>> <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>>> (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the >>>> term.) -snip- > Seriously, I've never heard the term for one of those railway > handcars. Interestingly, Don Philipson, posting elsethread, confirms that the usage is in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary. (The full OED identifies it only as "dial. and N.Z."). Maybe it's a central Canada thing? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 03 Jan 2010, Cheryl wrote >>>> <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Maybe it's a central Canada thing? Quite possibly. There are terms used there I might not know, and almost anything having to do with railways could easily be among them. One central Canadian, or at least anglophone Quebec usage, that baffled me at first was 'all-dressed', as applied to hamburgers and meaning 'having all available condiments added'. At first, I couldn't figure out what on earth the clerk was asking me, even though he was speaking English. SignatureCheryl >> On 03 Jan 2010, Cheryl wrote >>>>> <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >At first, I couldn't figure out what on earth the clerk was asking me, >even though he was speaking English. The grill crew "dressed" the buns at McDonald's when I worked there, which meant they squirted ketchup and mustard on the top halves of the buns from handheld devices manufactured for the job. Then they added a pickle before the grill man put a patty and the bottom halves of the buns on what had been prepared, but the exact term "all-dressed" is new to me. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > >>> (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > No, no, it's one of those metal thingies, often shaped like a fish, with > hooks, and used to jig cod or squid. Ah for some reason we called them jigs not jiggers. > That is, when it isn't a tiny glass used to measure liquor for those who > don't pour the stuff straight from the bottle. > > Seriously, I've never heard the term for one of those railway handcars. Nor have I. If the Canadian OED lists it as Don says it must be a local term somewhere. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > -- > Cheryl On Jan 2, 8:01�pm, Prai Jei <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote: > (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) The only JIGGER I know is a back alley in Liverpool, hence a "jigger rabbit" is an alley cat:-) George I know the term "trolley" is used for such vehicles on some Australian railways, but not sure how the "hand-powered" versions were described. There are motorised trolleys in use for inspection, etc - and also on some preserved lines, for tourists. DW downunder DW downunder wrote, in <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> on Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:42:16 +0800: > On Jan 2, 8:01?pm, Prai Jei <pvstownsend.zyx....@ntlworld.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > are motorised trolleys in use for inspection, etc - and also on some > preserved lines, for tourists. When I was working in North Borneo in 1953/54 the engineers on the railway used a heavily modified Jeep with railway wheels and locked steering. Somewhat to my surprise that railway is still operating. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Borneo_Railway> SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >DW downunder wrote, in <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> > on Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:42:16 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Borneo_Railway> http://www.northborneorailway.com.my/v2/index.html North Borneo Railway is the oldest running steam train in Sabah and --> Borneo. The nostalgic romance of an old steam train relieves memories of a bygone era. Passing through villages and coastal towns, paddy fields, rainforests and plantations of rubber and coffee, a ride on North Borneo Railway is truly a journey of rediscovery into the heart of Borneo. "relieves"? Perhaps: If you are troubled by memories of a bygone era, travelling on this train will relieve you of them. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > DW downunder wrote, in <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> > on Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:42:16 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > railway used a heavily modified Jeep with railway wheels and locked > steering. I'm sure I have seen some footage starring a similarly modified early Landrover, Jan >> DW downunder wrote, in >> <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I'm sure I have seen some footage > starring a similarly modified early Landrover, Similarly a Ford (E93A?) Prefect on railway wheels which I saw at Whipsnade Zoo(?) in the '70s/'80s. Ford Light Green, it was. SignaturePlease visit our appeal at http://www.donatetobreastcancer.org/nakedbikeride Thanks Ian > >> DW downunder wrote, in > >> <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Similarly a Ford (E93A?) Prefect on railway wheels which I saw at > Whipsnade Zoo(?) in the '70s/'80s. Ford Light Green, it was. Google throws up an old one from Ireland <http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/9/Land%20Rover.jpg> and a modern one from Tasmania <http://www.australiantraveller.com/images/imported/064.jpg> There are no doubt many others, Jan >Google throws up an old one from Ireland ><http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/9/Land%20Rover.jpg> That one looks a bit like a British Army one with the registration and the round plate on the front wing. Digging a bit further in, the page it appears on is an article about the Longmoor Military Railway in Hampshire. http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/9/longmoor.htm Adrian SignatureTo Reply : replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies. >> DW downunder wrote, in <4b3fd9e8$0$1779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> >> on Sun, 3 Jan 2010 07:42:16 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jan The superb Jiri Menzl film Closely Observed Trains has sequences of modified cars running on the railways, carrying snooty officials. It still seems surprising to me when the car departs running boot-first. J. J. Lodder set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> When I was working in North Borneo in 1953/54 the engineers on the >> railway used a heavily modified Jeep with railway wheels and locked >> steering. > > I'm sure I have seen some footage > starring a similarly modified early Landrover, Anybody remember the Shell ads from years ago where it was shown that a car on rails would run further on the same amount of fuel, when that fuel contained the Mileage Ingredient. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply >J. J. Lodder set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >continuum: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >on rails would run further on the same amount of fuel, when that fuel >contained the Mileage Ingredient. Yes,Tried to remember where it was filmed and came upon this. http://www.railcar.co.uk/features/shellmex.htm G.Harman On Jan 3, 8:31 pm, damduck-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 19:24:22 +0000, Prai Jei > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yes,Tried to remember where it was filmed and came upon this.http://www.railcar.co.uk/features/shellmex.htm I never did work out what was the "ICA" that was added to "Super Shell". Not the Institute of Contemporary Arts, I'm sure. Does anybody know? Maybe the initials were just chosen for their mellifluous qualities. -- franzi >On Jan 3, 8:31 pm, damduck-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 19:24:22 +0000, Prai Jei [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >know? Maybe the initials were just chosen for their mellifluous >qualities. Google to the rescue. This perhaps: http://www.ianbyrne.free-online.co.uk/special/glossary.htm ICA - Ignition Combustion Additive, widely promoted by Shell in the 1960s. Or more likely this (Google result): New Petrol Additives Shell with ignition control additives (ICA) was launched, containing phosphates to prevent fouling. ... cluding Shell additive super detergent ... www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/html/Output/Published/.../0180460503.pdf (That article costs money so I can't quote it directly.) SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...] > When I was working in North Borneo in 1953/54 the engineers on the > railway used a heavily modified Jeep with railway wheels and locked > steering. In Spain I once saw an "amphibious" Land-Rover belonging to the rail network. It had the usual road wheels and tires, but small flanged railway wheels which could, I assume, be lowered to meet the track. The road wheels would have provided drive for both applications, with the railway ones serving only to keep the vehicle in place. I hadn't thought of the steering problem: I suppose they must have added a steering lock. Nick may remember the converted buses with railway wheels they tried on Irish branch lines. I'm not sure if I really remember them, or merely their photographs. [...] SignatureMike. > [...] >> When I was working in North Borneo in 1953/54 the engineers on the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > road wheels would have provided drive for both applications, with the > railway ones serving only to keep the vehicle in place. No need to go to Spain - there is one on the West Highland Line. As for hand-operated vehicles, the reason there is no common UK name for them is they have always been vary rare on British tracks. Charlie Charlie Hulme filted: >> [...] >>> When I was working in North Borneo in 1953/54 the engineers on the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >As for hand-operated vehicles, the reason there is no common UK >name for them is they have always been vary rare on British tracks. Any sail-driven ones, other than the one Mike Todd had his heroes riding in the film of "Around the World in Eighty Days"?...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > merely their photographs. > [...] I believe they also operated in the Stratford-upon-Avon area in the 1930s.... SignaturePlease visit our appeal at http://www.donatetobreastcancer.org/nakedbikeride Thanks Ian > > [...] > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I believe they also operated in the Stratford-upon-Avon area in the > 1930s.... The LMS operated some buses with railway wheels at one time, are those the ones you are thinking of? SignatureGraeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail> Photo galleries at <http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/> >> > [...] >> >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > those the > ones you are thinking of? ----------------- Probably. Any links to photos?? > >> > [...] > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Probably. Any links to photos?? There's some film footage at <http://www/efootage.com/play-stock-footage-clip/55124/play_clip.php> SignatureGraeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail> Photo galleries at <http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/> >> >> > [...] >> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > <http://www/efootage.com/play-stock-footage-clip/55124/play_clip.php> Thanks ... I'll come back to it later when I have time to get it to work.. :o) >> There's some film footage at >> >> <http://www/efootage.com/play-stock-footage-clip/55124/play_clip.php> >> > Thanks ... I'll come back to it later when I have time to get it to > work.. :o) All you have to do is make the third slash a period. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I believe they also operated in the Stratford-upon-Avon area in the >1930s.... I think maybe you are mixing up few concepts there. Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of road vehicles. They were also used on the Eastern side of the Irish sea by some minor lines like the Selsey tramway as depicted on this page. http://www.colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/STWSR.html These once built/ adapted stayed on rail tracks. The Stratford upon Avon one is I suspect the LMS Road Railer which ran on the Rails and then continued along roads and was trialed in a couple of places. Only pic i can find is low down on this page. http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/r/redbourn/index.shtml Someone attempted the concept again 30 years ago as described here. http://www.wsr.org.uk/roadrail.htm G.Harman >Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in >appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of >road vehicles. The County Donegal Railways ordered a fleet of them in a courageous attempt to keep lines open for passenger traffic by cutting operating costs to the bone. Other Irish narrow gauge railways also bought them. The bus bodies were made by Walker Brothers of Wigan. I think the power bogies were made by Hunslet. Six still exist. One is in operation at the preserved Fintown Railway. http://www.antraen.com/enthusiast.php One awaits restoration at the Donegal Railway Centre. A couple survive on the Isle of Man, where they were transferred on closure of the County Donegal system in 1959. Alas it is out of use and restoration work has unfortunately been sporadic. http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p36308470.html >The Stratford upon Avon one is I suspect the LMS Road Railer which ran >on the Rails and then continued along roads and was trialed in a >couple of places. Only pic i can find is low down on this page. >http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/r/redbourn/index.shtml The LMS "Ro-Railer" was a modified standard Karrier Chaser half cab 26 seater coach that was delivered in 1930. It had coachwork by Cravens and ran trials on a number of lightly used LMS routes. Some images here: http://tinyurl.com/ydgs69h http://tinyurl.com/ydg4fva http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/imfile/06590.jpg http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/imfile/06620.jpg plus a similar vehicle in the Netherlands: http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/imfile/06630.jpg >>The Stratford upon Avon one is I suspect the LMS Road Railer > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Some images here: >http://tinyurl.com/ydgs69h Interesting pictures you put there, never really noticed before how close the road wheels were to rail chairs etc. Certainly wouldn't be cleared for use over the DC lines. G.Harman >>Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in >>appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The bus bodies were made by Walker Brothers of Wigan. I think the > power bogies were made by Hunslet. Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the sight of bus chasses being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like that. SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk >>> Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in >>> appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the sight of > bus chasses Is that a typo or did you intend it? > being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to > be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like > that. Ooh, yes, we used to get them in the Midlands as well. SignatureDavid >>>> Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in >>>> appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Is that a typo or did you intend it? What else would the plural of chassis be? SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk >>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the sight of >>> bus chasses >> >> Is that a typo or did you intend it? > > What else would the plural of chassis be? Chassies, I would have thought. SignatureDavid >>>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the >>>> sight of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Chassies, I would have thought. The recommended plural is "chassis". SignatureJames >>>>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the >>>>> sight of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The recommended plural is "chassis". I can't have had the need to write it down before, but the singular and plural are pronounced differently, at least in the industrial West Midlands. SignatureDavid >>>>>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the >>>>>> sight of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I can't have had the need to write it down before, but the singular and >plural are pronounced differently, at least in the industrial West Midlands. In my version of East Coast AmE, the pronunciations of the singular and plural of chassis are chassy and chassez. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE [aue only] >>>>>>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in >>>>>>> Wigan the sight of bus chasses [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In my version of East Coast AmE, the pronunciations of the singular > and plural of chassis are chassy and chassez. Yes. The Oxford Guide to English Usage lists six words of French origin where the plural is unchanged in written English but the silent -s of the singular becomes a -z when spoken: chamois chassis corps faux pas fracas patois So we say "one foe pah" but "two foe pahs". SignatureJames >>>>>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the >>>>>> sight of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > plural are pronounced differently, at least in the industrial West > Midlands. So are too (by many people) "series" and "series", but the spelling is the same. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>> Some Irish Railways used railcars which were very bus like in >>>>> appearance and some early ones were almost flanged wheel versions of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >What else would the plural of chassis be? That is a tricky one. The word is spoken with a silent final "s" when singular but with the "s" sounded when plural. That is not easy to represent in writing. The OED gives the plural as "chassis", the same as the singular. It gives historical examples in which different plurals are used. These are obsolete uses of "chassis" meaning: A wooden frame-work that can be fitted with paper, linen, glass, etc.; a window-frame; a SASH.: 1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. (1729) 224 Open all the Windows from ten in the Morning till three in the Afternoon: Then closing the Double-sheets, (or Chasses rather) continue a gentle Heat. 1693 De la Quint. Compl. Gard. 5 These Windows should also be fitted within side of the House, with Chassis of doubled Paper, that is, by glewing the Sheets on both sides of the Frame; and without this, another Chassis of Glass. a1693 URQUHART Rabelais III. li. 414 Chassis or Paper-Windows. 1711 SHAFTESBURY Charac. (1737) III. 15 The tumid bladder bounds at every kick, bursts the withstanding casements, the chassys, lanterns, and all the brittle vitrious ware. "Chasses", "chassis" and "chassys" have all been used as plurals. I'm guessing that the singular of "chassys" is "chassy". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote on Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:01:43 +0000: > The word is spoken with a silent final "s" when singular but with the > "s" sounded when plural. That is not easy to represent in writing. sha-see, sha-siz SignatureRegards Alex http://www.badphorm.co.uk/ >Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote on Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:01:43 +0000: > >> The word is spoken with a silent final "s" when singular but with the >> "s" sounded when plural. That is not easy to represent in writing. > >sha-see, sha-siz That would work if you could be sure that the reader could recognise what the words refer to. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > That is a tricky one. The word is spoken with a silent final "s" when > singular but with the "s" sounded when plural. That is not easy to > represent in writing. Still, this is not half so odd as French "ours" which has a pronounced s in the singular and a silent one in the plural (cf oeuf and a number of similar words). SignatureRob Bannister Nick filted: >>> Is that what became Northern Counties. Growing up in Wigan the sight of >>> bus chasses >> >> Is that a typo or did you intend it? > >What else would the plural of chassis be? I was trying to figure out why you were suddenly talking about ballet....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like >> that. > > Ooh, yes, we used to get them in the Midlands as well. They were probably leaving you for us. SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk >>> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >>> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They were probably leaving you for us. When we lived in Scarborough (N Yorkshire) in the early 1980s we often saw bare coach chassis arriving at Plaxton's the coach builders. The chassis were driven by chaps muffled in heavy-duty clothing and wearing goggles. SignatureBruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney (Remove dentures to reply) >>> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >>> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They were probably leaving you for us. I'd imagine that most here are familar with Bristol Motors and Eastern Coach Works. It was my understanding that in the days of the Bristol "Lodekka", FLF, VRT, LH, and RE and probably MW too, that the floor pan/chassis was driven from Bristol to Lowestoft for fitting of bodies. Hence the Lodekka was a Bristol/ECW product. DW downunder >>> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >>> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They were probably leaving you for us. Weren't a lot of buses/bussies built in Leyland? SignatureDavid > > the Omrud<usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Weren't a lot of buses/bussies built in Leyland? I wonder if those were the ones operated by Leylines. -- franzi >>>>> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >>>>> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> > I wonder if those were the ones operated by Leylines. A propos of nothing, really, the bus company in the Midlands when I were a lad was known to all as the "Midland Red". But its name was "Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Ltd". SignatureDavid >>>>> being driven by men in helmets and goggles to the works to >>>>> be fitted out was common. You even saw them bombing along the M6 like [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > I wonder if those were the ones operated by Leylines. You're on the right track. SignatureJames On Jan 5, 10:01 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote: > On 05/01/2010 08:22, Nick wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I wonder if those were the ones operated by Leylines. Ah, I see. IGMC SignaturePlease visit our appeal at http://www.donatetobreastcancer.org/nakedbikeride Thanks Ian >>> [...] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > couple of places. Only pic i can find is low down on this page. > http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/r/redbourn/index.shtml Thats the one I was thinking of! > Someone attempted the concept again 30 years ago as described here. > http://www.wsr.org.uk/roadrail.htm Didn't know of that - ta. > G.Harman Mike Lyle wrote, in <hhr2vd$5rq$1@news.eternal-september.org> on Sun, 3 Jan 2010 21:42:06 -0000: > [...] > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > their photographs. > [...] Not in my time I think, I've lived here only since 1964. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >(Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) In my dialect a jigger is a kind of flea that lays its eggs under the skin, causing much itching. They are found on the Zululand coast and people there iron every item of washing to make sure that there aren't any lurking after it's dried on the washing line. They also avoid walking around barefoot. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >iron every item of washing to make sure that there aren't any lurking after >it's dried on the washing line. They also avoid walking around barefoot. That insect, here, is a "chigger". A "jigger" is a measure of liquor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombiculidae SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombiculidae Jigger From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Search Wiktionary Look up jigger in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigger The term jigger may refer to: * A traditional Newfoundland unbaited weighted hook, often designed like a small fish, used with a line to catch larger fish by giving a sharp, upward jerk. * An ethnic slur for black people; see List of ethnic slurs#J * A Handcar, a hand-operated railway car * A Jigger (bartending), a measure of alcoholic beverage ingredients, and the tool used to measure them. * A jigger flea or chigoe flea, a parasitic arthropod found in tropical climates * A jigger mast or jiggermast, the aftmost mast of a four-masted sailing ship. * A machine used in the production of ceramics such as pottery * The owner of Panathinaikos FC Giannis Vardinogiannis, a former rally driver under the alias "Jigger" * An alleyway in Liverpool * The sculpture of a coal miner in Brownhills * A small town in Louisiana Disambig gray.svg The chigoe flea or jigger (Tunga penetrans) is a parasitic arthropod found in tropical climates, especially South and Central America and the West Indies. At 1 mm long, the chigoe flea is the smallest known flea. Breeding female chigoes burrow into exposed skin and lay eggs, causing intense irritation. After this point, the skin lesion looks like a 5 to 10 mm white spot with a central black dot, which are the flea's exposed hind legs, respiratory spiracles and reproductive organs. If the flea is left within the skin, infection and/or other dangerous complications may ensue. The free-living flea is a poor jumper and can only reach a height of around 20 cm; therefore the use of closed shoes (as opposed to sandals or slippers) is an effective way of preventing infection.[1] The parasitic flea lives in soil and sand, and feeds intermittently on warm-blooded hosts such as humans, cattle, sheep, dogs, mice, and other animals. In order to reproduce, the female flea burrows head-first into the hosts' skin, often leaving the caudal tip of its abdomen visible through an orifice in a skin lesion. This orifice allows the chigoe flea to breathe while feeding on blood vessels in the cutaneous and subcutaneous dermal layer. In the next two weeks, the flea releases about 100 eggs through the orifice, which fall to the ground. The flea then dies and is sloughed by the host's skin. Within the next three to four days, the eggs hatch and mature into adult fleas within three to four weeks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigoe_flea SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 07:01:07 +0200, Steve Hayes > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > -- > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200381/Planes-trains-automobiles--Pensi oner-aims-record-books-using-100-modes-transport-seven-months.html Another type of "human powered" railway vehicle in the link above. > HVS set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > (Never heard of a jigger though W***pedia does vouch for the term.) ISTR Mark Williams riding one in one of his 'On the Rails' TV series, but I don't remember which railway it was on. Anyone know ? Jim Hawkins Harvey Van Sickle: > I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered > railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically > a four-wheeled platform with a pump-like lever to make it go. > > Googling a bit, I came across "handcar" and thought "That must be > it". That's the only term I know for them. SignatureMark Brader A real Canadian science-fiction plot would be Toronto about whether alien visitors were a federal or msb@vex.net a provincial responsibility. --Duncan Thornton > I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered > railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is "jigger" a Canadian term? Yes indeed, according to the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, and thus used in New Zealand as well. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered >> railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yes indeed, according to the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, > and thus used in New Zealand as well. I would say it is the usual term for the conveyance in NZ. It applies to motorised versions as well - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10367825&pnum=1 Apteryx On 03 Jan 2010, Don Phillipson wrote >> I was trying last night to remember the name of those >> man-powered railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Yes indeed, according to the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, Ah; that explains my reaction to the term -- thanks. > and thus used in New Zealand as well. Perhaps ultimately a Scottish source? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > > I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered > > railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yes indeed, according to the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, > and thus used in New Zealand as well. Any idea where in Canada? I don't remember ever hearing it around this part of the country? Could it be a Western term? > I was trying last night to remember the name of those man-powered > railway vehicles that one sees in westerns and cartoons -- basically [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Is "jigger" a Canadian term? Not in this part of the country, that I've ever heard. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > -- > Cheers, Harvey > CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed |
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