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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010babies are supposed to cry
My dictionary lists a sentence "The baby is supposed to cry." for an example. But as I searched on the net, I got a large number of example sentences saying "Babies are supposed to cry." ,and very few with "The baby is supposed to cry." I thought that "the" of the baby in this case is a certain article called typical "the" that shows the typical character of something. In this case, it shows a typical baby who cries by saying "the baby". What do you think? > My dictionary lists a sentence "The baby is supposed to cry." for an > example. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What do you think? For me it sounds a lot more natural in the plural. With "a" it would be OK in the singular; with "the" it doesn't.  Signatureathel > > My dictionary lists a sentence "The baby is supposed to cry." for an > > example. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > For me it sounds a lot more natural in the plural. With "a" it would be > OK in the singular; with "the" it doesn't. Ditto. "The baby..." evokes a grandmother explaining to a new mother. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >My dictionary lists a sentence "The baby is supposed to cry." for an >example. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >What do you think? More likely, it would refer to a particular mentioned baby: "Don't be concerned if your new baby cries when it is hungry. The baby is supposed to cry. All babies are supposed to cry when hungry." SignatureJohn In our last episode, <fe2a12f6-a54e-495b-a41a-0cfa9db89d26@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented Masa broadcast on alt.usage.english: > My dictionary lists a sentence "The baby is supposed to cry." for an > example. But as I searched on the net, I got a large number of example > sentences saying "Babies are supposed to cry." ,and very few with "The > baby is supposed to cry." > I thought that "the" of the baby in this case is a certain article called > typical "the" that shows the typical character of something. I do not know where you get this theory, but it is not correct in this case. Babies are supposed to cry. A baby is supposed to cry. mean it is in the nature of babies to cry. Without any further qualification, these statements do not refer to particular babies or circumstances. The baby is supposed to cry. refers to a particular baby. > In this case, it shows a typical baby who cries by saying "the baby". > What do you think? SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> Warbama's Afghaninam day: 34 833.3 hours since Warbama declared Viet Nam II. Warbama: An LBJ for the Twenty-First century. No hope. No change. Could you think like follows: The baby is supposed to cry. This 'the ' is the same as in 1)The lion is the king of beasts. 2)The pine is evergreen. In both sentences, the usage of "the" is named as "generic" or "representative". If so, "the baby" of my question above could be representative of all babies, too. > Could you think like follows: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If so, "the baby" of my question above could be representative of > all babies, too. No. In our last episode, <f70a08eb-0438-4b87-8c0a-7bfef5a73f84@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented Masa broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Could you think like follows: > The baby is supposed to cry. > This 'the ' is the same as in > 1)The lion is the king of beasts. > 2)The pine is evergreen. There are some contexts in which this might be the intented interpretation. In a textbook on neonatal care you might find something like: "The baby may be born with a substance dependency." > In both sentences, the usage of "the" is named as "generic" or > "representative". > If so, "the baby" of my question above could be representative of > all babies, too. No one will take it this way in ordinary conversation. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> Warbama's Afghaninam day: 34 837.4 hours since Warbama declared Viet Nam II. Warbama: An LBJ for the Twenty-First century. No hope. No change. > In our last episode, > <fe2a12f6-a54e-495b-a41a-0cfa9db89d26@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > refers to a particular baby. Not necessarily. This is a particular way of speaking that used to be common among certain professional classes. SignatureRob Bannister [...] > I do not know where you get this theory, but it is not correct in this > case. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > refers to a particular baby. Not so, at least in American English. As Follett points out in _Modern American Usage_: "There is an observable tendency, likely rather to increase than to decrease, toward so confusing the definite and the indefinite article as to make each do duty for the other. They are, of course, often interchangeable: it makes no difference to meaning whether we say 'The exception tests the rule' (any exception, any rule) or 'An exception tests a rule'; and 'the proof of the pudding' is the same as 'the proof of a pudding'." That last, I think, covers the ground: "the pudding" and "a pudding" are perfectly interchangeable, as I daresay--in context--"the baby" and "a baby" are as well. SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > perfectly interchangeable, as I daresay--in context--"the baby" and "a > baby" are as well. You're outvoted. Comments so far indicate that most of us here think that "The baby" means a particular baby, unless context makes it clear otherwise. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > that "The baby" means a particular baby, unless context makes it > clear otherwise. You might see a different split on "The teenager", eh? The teenager is not designed to be understood. Teenagers are a little less human than babies, I suspect. SignatureFrank ess >>> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > The teenager is not designed to be understood. Like the sexual life of the camel. SignatureRob Bannister >> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > that "The baby" means a particular baby, unless context makes it > clear otherwise. Corrupt ballot. You're only the second person I've noticed with this view. SignatureRob Bannister > >> [...] > >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Corrupt ballot. You're only the second person I've noticed with this view. I count John O'Flaherty, Lars Eighner, and maybe Athel Cornish-Bowden in addition to me. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email |
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