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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010How Come
When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. Almost everyone here says, "How come"; without the "'s". Is either form preferred or are both equally bad with "why" being preferred over both? > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come > they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. > Almost everyone here says, "How come"; without the "'s". Is either form > preferred or are both equally bad with "why" being preferred over both? Both are informal. I've heard "How's come" from only one person, a woman from Pittsburgh who said it jocularly in imitation of her father, a Ukrainian immigrant. So until now I thought of it as an imitation of non-native English, like "how you say?" or "strong like bull". -- Jerry Friedman > > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come > > they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > imitation of non-native English, like "how you say?" or "strong like > bull". It's Pittsburghese. Not exactly an official reference, but I found this on "How's come" http://www.pittsburghese.com/glossary.ep.html?type=phrases Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: >> When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's >> com [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > --- > Jerry Friedman Interesting. I grew up in Wooster, Ohio. Wooster is not all that far from Pittsburgh. Maybe "how's come" is local usage from that part of the states. Another thing people here think sounds odd is my pronunciation of the sandwich that has a beef paddy in a bun. For as long as I can remember, I've said "hamburg". Everyone here says "hamburger". Maybe that's also form childhood influences in north-central Ohio. >>> When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, >>> "How's come they left early?" People here in Newfoundland [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "hamburger". Maybe that's also form childhood influences in > north-central Ohio. Curiouser and curiouser -- that's a beef *patty* that is in your hamburger. A paddy is something else altogether.  SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >> When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's > >> com [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Pittsburgh. Maybe "how's come" is local usage from that part of the > states. Hm. Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. "Dja see the Stillers game, Bawb?" ("Still-" has the highest pitch in the sentence. Some may want to know that the Stillers are the Pittsburgh Steelers, an American football team, last year's Super Bowl champions but out of contention for this year's Super Bowl.) Which side of the accent line is Wooster on? Ohio or Ahia? Is "caught" the same as "cot"? And most importantly, Browns or Steelers? (Obaue: "Wooster" has the same first vowel as "wood", as Wikipedia puts it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooster,_Ohio I pronounce it the same as "Worcester", and I always thought that's where the name came from, but Wikip says it's after David Wooster, a general in the American Revolution.) > Another thing people here think sounds odd is my pronunciation of > the sandwich that has a beef paddy in a bun. For as long as I can remember, > I've said "hamburg". Everyone here says "hamburger". Maybe that's also > form childhood influences in north-central Ohio. I think I heard "hamburg" occasionally growing up near Cleveland. Strangely enough, if you go due north from Wooster in north-central Ohio, you get to northeastern Ohio. -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: > Which side of the accent line is Wooster on? Ohio or Ahia? Is > "caught" the same as "cot"? And most importantly, Browns or Steelers? I think I'm closer to Ahia. "Caught" is not exactly the same as "cot" when I say them. Browns, of course. I've been living in Newfooundland for 34 years. Every time I go back, it amazes me to hear how southern sounding the Wooster accent is to my ear. It is distinctly different than Cleveland area speach but I would have never thought that while I was living there. > I pronounce it the same as "Worcester", and I always thought that's > where the name came from, but Wikip says it's after David Wooster, a > general in the American Revolution.) While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. It's on an equal footing with pronouncing "Newfoundland" as New-fun-lund. It's New-fin- land. Yes; it's named after General Wooster. A statue in his honor is in the cemetary. > Strangely enough, if you go due north from Wooster in north-central > Ohio, you get to northeastern Ohio. Which reminds me, here in Newfoundland if we go northeast from Clarenville to Bonavista it is called "going down to Bonavista". If you go from Bonavista to Claenville, it is called "going up to Clarenville." > > Which side of the accent line is Wooster on? Ohio or Ahia? Is > > "caught" the same as "cot"? And most importantly, Browns or Steelers? > > I think I'm closer to Ahia. "Caught" is not exactly the same as "cot" when > I say them. Same here, but I'm definitely from Ohio. > Browns, of course. Whew. I was in a mall in Warren, Ohio, last week, and I counted more Steelers jackets and caps than Browns. But of course Warren is a good deal closer to Pittsburgh than Wooster is. > I've been living in Newfooundland for 34 > years. Every time I go back, it amazes me to hear how southern sounding > the Wooster accent is to my ear. It is distinctly different than Cleveland > area speach but I would have never thought that while I was living there. Also, Cleveland speech has undergone a good deal of Northern Cities Vowel Shift in the last 34 years, and I doubt Wooster speech has. > > I pronounce it the same as "Worcester", and I always thought that's > > where the name came from, but Wikip says it's after David Wooster, a > > general in the American Revolution.) > > While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would > "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. Okay, how am I supposed to pronounce it? Not with the vowel of "wood"? > It's on an equal > footing with pronouncing "Newfoundland" as New-fun-lund. It's New-fin- > land. ... When I visited the West Coast, I seemed to hear the first "d". The "land" part was as you say. It may be time for ASCII IPA: I was brought up to say /'nuf@nl@nd/, but I remember hearing /'nuf@nd,l&nd/. > > Strangely enough, if you go due north from Wooster in north-central > > Ohio, you get to northeastern Ohio. > > Which reminds me, here in Newfoundland if we go northeast from Clarenville > to Bonavista it is called "going down to Bonavista". If you go from > Bonavista to Claenville, it is called "going up to Clarenville." At least it's consistent. *looks at map* Maybe "down" is "toward the ocean". -- Jerry Friedman > While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would > "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. Apparently I'm trapped by the restrictions of my own dialect. I cannot imagine any way of pronouncing "Wooster" that does not sound like "Worcester". Are you able to illustrate the difference using ASCII IPA? (Or, if you prefer, real IPA.) SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would >> "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "Worcester". Are you able to illustrate the difference using ASCII IPA? > (Or, if you prefer, real IPA.) Sorry, I've just seen the obvious answer. Presumably you pronounce "Wooster" to rhyme with "rooster" rather than "Worcester". SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would >> "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "Worcester". Are you able to illustrate the difference using ASCII IPA? > (Or, if you prefer, real IPA.) Well, you could rhyme it with rooster. SignatureRob Bannister > While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would > "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. It's on an equal > footing with pronouncing "Newfoundland" as New-fun-lund. It's New-fin- > land. I thought "wooster" WAS the way to pronounce "Worcester" ?? SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo >> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would >> "Worcester". It's tantamount to municipal treason. It's on an equal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I thought "wooster" WAS the way to pronounce > "Worcester" ?? No. The first vowel in Worcester sounds like wool, not like pool. SignatureDavid >>> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you >>> would [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > No. The first vowel in Worcester sounds like wool, not like pool. Well, I meant to ask a Brit (sounds like a name for an internet website: Ask-a-Brit.org) whether Bertie's surname is done as Worcester (wuss, as in Wisconsin) or as the US Wooster, Ohio (like rooster, as someone has rightly suggested). >>>> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you >>>> would [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or as the US Wooster, Ohio (like rooster, as someone has rightly > suggested). Probably like the US Wooster, but I don't know the place. Woo-ster. SignatureDavid >>>>> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you >>>>> would [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Probably like the US Wooster, but I don't know the place. Woo-ster. Good Lord, no! It's non-rhotic "Worcester": same first vowel as in the author's name, which is "wood" not "woad". SignatureMike. >>>> While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you >>>> would [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >or as the US Wooster, Ohio (like rooster, as someone has rightly >suggested). You were close. It's www.Askabrit.com SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > > In article<Xns9CFCE04242643mgb72mgbhotmail...@188.40.43.213>, > > Mardon<mgb72...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > No. The first vowel in Worcester sounds like wool, not like pool. Yes, just like the first vowel in my pronunciation of Wooster, Ohio. But Mardon may be about to tell me and Erilar that we're pronouncing Wooster wrong. -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > I thought "wooster" WAS the way to pronounce >> > "Worcester" ?? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Jerry Friedman Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other stuff: http://www.JustUs.ca/post/aue-wooster.mp3 > Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other stuff: > http://www.JustUs.ca/post/aue-wooster.mp3 Gerry, your recording shows you pronounce "Wooster" the same way that people in Massachusetts pronounce "Worcester" and also, I think, as do people in the UK. The first syllable has the vowel of "wood". Some argument could be made about the last syllable, woosta or woosterr, but that was beside the point. Anyway, I'm afraid you overstated the case when you wrote: > While in Wooster, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, pronounce "Wooster" as you would > "Worcester". Best -- Donna Richoux Donna Richoux skrev: > Gerry, your recording shows you pronounce "Wooster" the same way that > people in Massachusetts pronounce "Worcester" For what it's worth, that is the way I thought it should be pronounced before the many explanations about it were written. That is also how I pronounce the English city "Worchester". That is not exactly correct according to Wikipedia - sound file here (OGX-format unfortunately): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/En-worcester.ogg but I think the first vowel is alright. SignatureBertel, Denmark > Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other stuff: > http://www.JustUs.ca/post/aue-wooster.mp3 Your "Wooster" appears to be the same as the way most people pronounce "Worcester". SignatureRob Bannister > >> > I thought "wooster" WAS the way to pronounce > >> > "Worcester" ?? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other stuff:http://www.JustUs.ca/post/aue-wooster.mp3 Thanks, that was a good solution! I ran into <http://www.webhost4life.com/firewall.htm>, but I'll take the other people's word for it, as you've done plenty already. -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other >> stuff [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Jerry Friedman Thanks for letting me know. I think I've fixed the firewall problem. Here is a link to another clip of me that focuses more on just the "Wooster" issue: http://www.JustUs.ca/post/wooster02.mp3 After thinking about it though, perhaps this wasn't such a good solution. I've been living in Newfoundland since 1975, so I certainly don't have the Wooster accent anymore. That said, it's the double "o pronunciation that is the issue. I noticed that after listening to my recording Donna responded that she thought I overstated my case. On that point I can assure her I did not. The people of Wooster are VERY sticky about how the name of their city is pronounced. > Thanks for letting me know. I think I've fixed the firewall problem. Here > is a link to another clip of me that focuses more on just the "Wooster" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > assure her I did not. The people of Wooster are VERY sticky about how the > name of their city is pronounced. I do not doubt your knowledge of the preferences of the people of Wooster, and I understand you clearly because of the sound files, thank you. What you have shown to be unaware of is how Worcester is said other places. What you overstated was the part about what *other* people do. You could walk into a bar in Worcester MA and be welcomed like a brother. Also, I suspect, Worcester in Worcestershire, England. People who live in Worcester MA must endure similar and even worse mispronuciations by visitors from California, Florida, etc -- "Wirr-ses-ter?" "Wore-ses-ter?" "Worst-er?" (all rhotic). And then there's the bottled sauce. SignatureBest - Donna Richoux [...] > You [...from Wooster...] could walk into a bar in Worcester MA and be > welcomed like a brother. Also, I suspect, Worcester in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And then there's the bottled sauce. I now have not only L&P's echt Worcestershire and Sarson's Worcester, but also Morrison's own-brand Worcester. One sees vegan etc versions in health food shops, and Sheffield has its own Henderson's Relish (which isn't very far from straight vinegar to my taste). I even, for the hell of it, a few years ago tried to make it from scratch by guessing the recipe, and may even have kept a bottle. I wonder if we should make a Worcs sauce tasting the centrepiece of a boink one of these days. "Bush chutney" is plum jam mixed with Worcestershire sauce (a condiment once nearly as vital to the Australian Way Of Life as tomato sauce). SignatureMike. ... >"Bush chutney" is plum jam mixed with Worcestershire sauce (a condiment >once nearly as vital to the Australian Way Of Life as tomato sauce). It is? I've never heard of it before. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > ... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It is? I've never heard of it before. It may be a local gag, or even a family one. But I have seen it in print somewhere. It's Worcestershire sauce my parenthesis referred to, by the way, not the elusive bush chutney: there used to be several brands. SignatureMike. >> ... >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >somewhere. It's Worcestershire sauce my parenthesis referred to, by the >way, not the elusive bush chutney: there used to be several brands. Chutney is certainly commonplace (but I don't like it myself) but I hadn't seen anything about plum jam before. I did misread your parenthesis so thanks for the clarification. Worcestershire sauce can be found in every pantry but I don't think it gets used as often as the old "dead-horse". Sweet chilli sauce is becoming a staple, especially, for some reason, among the fairer sex. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>> ... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >gets used as often as the old "dead-horse". Sweet chilli sauce is >becoming a staple, especially, for some reason, among the fairer sex. "Sweet" attracts them, I reckon. In the unbelievable but true category, I know a woman who puts a tablespoon or more of sugar in every cup of tea she drinks. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE On Jan 12, 6:11 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > "Bush chutney" is plum jam mixed with Worcestershire sauce (a condiment > once nearly as vital to the Australian Way Of Life as tomato sauce). You do realise that this isn't really OT. And that of course a sort of fry-up-ish boink could be centred around Worcs sauce tasting... or were you imagining we'd just look at the stuff? cheers, S > On Jan 12, 6:11 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Worcs sauce tasting... or were you imagining we'd just look at the > stuff? If you're frying, then you add some chopped ginger to the plum jam and worcester sauce mixture and you have sweet 'n sour sauce - "just like the Chinese make it". SignatureRob Bannister >> On Jan 12, 6:11 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >worcester sauce mixture and you have sweet 'n sour sauce - "just like >the Chinese make it". All these possibilities for plum jam! I remember it coming in big tins from some part of eastern Europe (Yugoslavia, perhaps). SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>> On Jan 12, 6:11 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > All these possibilities for plum jam! I remember it coming in big tins > from some part of eastern Europe (Yugoslavia, perhaps). That's a different kind of jam - plum cheese? - it is very solid with no traces of whole fruit. SignatureRob Bannister [...] >>> You do realise that this isn't really OT. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > All these possibilities for plum jam! I remember it coming in big tins > from some part of eastern Europe (Yugoslavia, perhaps). One I may try is: coat a leg of lamb with plum jam, then roast it as usual, but sitting in a pint of very strong coffee (black and unsweetened, I assume). Easier to achieve than Blumenthal's insane stewed oxtail, which needs three different kinds of wine and two different kinds of vinegar, among other things. See: <http://tinyurl.com/yddxcon> or http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/heston_blumenthal /article1271958.ece SignatureMike. >People who live in Worcester MA must endure similar and even worse >mispronuciations by visitors from California, Florida, etc -- >"Wirr-ses-ter?" "Wore-ses-ter?" "Worst-er?" (all rhotic). "It's 'wistah', not 'war-chester'!" -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 > >> Here it is, me saying "Wooster" and some other > >> stuff [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > http://www.JustUs.ca/post/wooster02.mp3 Both of those worked fine, thanks. I say "Wooster" exactly the way you do, as far as I can tell, and that's exactly how I say "Worcester". > After thinking about it though, perhaps this wasn't such a good solution. > I've been living in Newfoundland since 1975, so I certainly don't have the > Wooster accent anymore. Your accent sounded pretty General American to me. > That said, it's the double "o pronunciation that > is the issue. > I noticed that after listening to my recording Donna > responded that she thought I overstated my case. On that point I can > assure her I did not. The people of Wooster are VERY sticky about how the > name of their city is pronounced. I think I'll be okay if I ever go there. -- Jerry Friedman > Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > assure her I did not. The people of Wooster are VERY sticky about how the > name of their city is pronounced. Once again, you are clearly saying "Worcester". SignatureRob Bannister > Hm. Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh > relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. "Dja see the > Stillers game, Bawb?" ("Still-" has the highest pitch in the > sentence. Some may want to know that the Stillers are the Pittsburgh > Steelers, an American football team, last year's Super Bowl champions > but out of contention for this year's Super Bowl.) I neglected to mention that I'm also a Pittsburgh native. Grew up hearing a lot of "How's come". I don't think everyone I knew said it, though. Just as some (but not all) said "keller" for "color". > > Hm. Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh > > relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. "Dja see the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > hearing a lot of "How's come". I don't think everyone I knew said it, > though. Just as some (but not all) said "keller" for "color". Well, my relatives must not have been in the "How's come" group. I also don't remember the allegedly classic "dahntahn", which may just show you how little I know. -- Jerry Friedman > Hm. Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh > relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. "Dja see the > Stillers game, Bawb?" ("Still-" has the highest pitch in the > sentence. Some may want to know that the Stillers are the Pittsburgh > Steelers, an American football team, last year's Super Bowl champions > but out of contention for this year's Super Bowl.) Aha! I wonder whether this explains the insistence of a certain cross-posting linguist that [i] and [I] are the same vowel, differing only in length. At least, that's what I think he was saying. I find it difficult to distinguish between the comments he makes from professional expertise and those based on plain stupidity. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > Hm. Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh > relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. "Dja see the > Stillers game, Bawb?" ("Still-" has the highest pitch in the > sentence. Some may want to know that the Stillers are the Pittsburgh > Steelers, an American football team, last year's Super Bowl champions > but out of contention for this year's Super Bowl.) When I were a young thing starting out in my professional career (that would have been just shortly after when I were a lass naturally), I had a colleague named Robert who I believe came from somewhere near Pittsburgh. His wife was named Barbara. Of course they were called 'Bawb and Bawb' by their nearest and dearest. This baffled me when I first heard it. cheers, Stephanie tsuidf filted: >> Hm. =A0Despite Lane's comment, I don't remember it from my Pittsburgh >> relatives, some of whom spoke real Pittsburghese. =A0"Dja see the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >'Bawb and Bawb' by their nearest and dearest. This baffled me when I >first heard it. Used to work with a guy named Donn, with two Ns...when I heard that his wife had a child on the way, I started working on him: "Since your father was Don with one N, and you're Donn with two Ns, I suppose you can name your own son Donnn with three Ns." "Donn if it's a boy, Dawn if it's a girl?" He actually named the boy "Donald Dean"...I suggested that if it had been a girl, he could have called her "Donaldine"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? <snip> >When I were a young thing... Have you no modesty, Stephanie? I might well call a woman a young thing, but I have never heard someone call herself that. Oh, you were joking. Well, that's OK, then. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:30:38 +0000 (UTC) from Mardon <mgb72mgb@hotmail.com>: > Interesting. I grew up in Wooster, Ohio. Wooster is not all that > far from Pittsburgh. Maybe "how's come" is local usage from that > part of the states. Maybe. I lived in Cleveland, even closer to Pittsburgh, for a couple of decades at the end of the last century, and I *never* heard "how's come". > Another thing people here think sounds odd is my pronunciation of > the sandwich that has a beef paddy in a bun. Hmm ... if rice is grown in a rice paddy, what do you suppose grows in a beef paddy? SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... >Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >I've said "hamburg". Everyone here says "hamburger". Maybe that's also >form childhood influences in north-central Ohio. I have heard "How's come" in Northern Virginia and in Maryland many times, often, but not always, in a jocular manner. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come >> they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > imitation of non-native English, like "how you say?" or "strong like > bull". My thoughts exactly: non-native English. If it is commonly used somewhere in some brand of English, it will be interesting to find out where. SignatureRob Bannister >>> When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come >>> they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >somewhere in some brand of English, it will be interesting to find out >where. As I posted yesterday, I have heard "How's come" in Northern Virginia and in Maryland many times, often, but not always, in a jocular manner. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come > they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. > Almost everyone here says, "How come"; without the "'s". Is either form > preferred or are both equally bad with "why" being preferred over both? I've never heard "how's come" People here {Mass} would think it odd too. >When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, "How's come >they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think this is strange. >Almost everyone here says, "How come"; without the "'s". Is either form >preferred or are both equally bad with "why" being preferred over both? Here we say "How come". I've not heard the S version before. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, > "How's come [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > preferred or are both equally bad with "why" being preferred over > both? "How come" is legitimate English from centuries long gone, and it continues in current usage. "How come you to be up and about?" might have been written by Shakespeare, even. "How come ye to the fair?" "How comes he to be so wealthy?" But the "How's come" is not standard, though it is frequently heard/spoken. I suppose I associate it with inner-city or big-city speech patterns, if not with Black English or street language, BICBW. Nowadays, though, I can turn on one of the "reality" court TV programs and hear it frequently--even occasionally from a judge or two. It has become part of everyday usage, especially among the young. <snip> >But the "How's come" is not standard, though it is frequently >heard/spoken. I suppose I associate it with inner-city or big-city >speech patterns, if not with Black English or street language, BICBW. I think it is possible YMBW, for I have heard it almost exclusively from white people, at least that was my experience in the Washington, D.C. area. It was often used jocularly, as I said a minute ago. <snip> SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > from white people, at least that was my experience in the Washington, > D.C. area. It was often used jocularly, as I said a minute ago. Interesting. I don't recall every hearing it. SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo >>> But the "How's come" is not standard, though it is frequently >>> heard/spoken. I suppose I associate it with inner-city or big-city >>> speech patterns, if not with Black English or street language, BICBW. >> ... I have heard it almost exclusively >> from white people, at least that was my experience in the Washington, >> D.C. area. It was often used jocularly, as I said a minute ago. > Interesting. I don't recall every hearing it. I don't recall ever hearing it either, and I've been to a lot of places in the US, although some only briefly. "How's come" sounds to me like the sort of thing one of our non-native-speaker participants might invent. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "If we gave people a choice, there would be chaos." msb@vex.net | -- Dick McDonald > > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, > > "How's come [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > two. It has become part of everyday usage, especially among the > young. Now, I haven't heard "how's come" in years! I thought it was hillbilly. >> > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, >> > "How's come [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Now, I haven't heard "how's come" in years! I thought it was >hillbilly. When I've heard it, which has been many times, it was either from a hillbilly or from someone imitating one. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC) from Mardon <mgb72mgb@hotmail.com>: > When speaking, I often use the term, "How's come", such as in, > "How's come they left early?" People here in Newfoundland think > this is strange. Almost everyone here says, "How come"; without the > "'s". Is either form preferred or are both equally bad with "why" > being preferred over both? "How come" is good informal AmE for"why". I've never, ever heard "how's come". SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... Stan Brown filted: >Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC) from Mardon ><mgb72mgb@hotmail.com>: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >"How come" is good informal AmE for"why". I've never, ever heard >"how's come". English has two meanings for "why": "how come" and "what for"...some other languages also use a single word for both; others use separate expressions.... Consider the question: "Why is the remote control in the freezer?"...if "why" here means "how come", a good answer might be "My roommate probably put it there when he was drunk"...if instead "why"="what for", one might answer "Keeping it cold makes the batteries last longer"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Stan Brown filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >when he was drunk"...if instead "why"="what for", one might answer "Keeping it >cold makes the batteries last longer"....r Yes. "How come..." means "How does it come to be that...". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Stan Brown filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Yes. "How come..." means "How does it come to be that...". While reading this thread, I've been wondering if the original could be "how (is it) come", with the past participle instead of the present tense. "How's come" might then be parsed as a slurred form of the more complete version. >>> Stan Brown filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >tense. "How's come" might then be parsed as a slurred form of the >more complete version. That could be, or, possibly, "how's come" might be a shortening of "how has it come (to be)". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>> Stan Brown filted: >>>>> Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC) from Mardon [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > That could be, or, possibly, "how's come" might be a shortening of > "how has it come (to be)". Note, however, that he pronounces it with "s", not "z", so a shortening from "has" or "is" is less likely. SignatureRob Bannister |
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