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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010Morrison: You say 'Hi' to pigs
Hello: Does the "unhung" here mean "not hanged yet" or is it something else? Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? --- [Milkman Death visits his aunt, Pilate] Milkman took a breath, held it, and said, "Hi." Pilate laughed. "You all must be the dumbest unhung Negroes on earth. What they telling you in them schools. You say 'Hi' to pigs and sheep when you want 'em to move. When you tell a human being 'Hi,' he ought to get up and knock you down." Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 --- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > Does the "unhung" here mean > "not hanged yet" Yes, with the implication that they ought to be. A late uncle of mine, whose brother was a policeman, use to say that the police were "the biggest rogues unhung". > or is it something else? > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks. > Marius Hancu  SignatureLes (BrE) > > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > whose brother was a policeman, use to say that the police were "the > biggest rogues unhung". And there I was expecting this thread to be about the Joni Mitchell song "California" as sung by Jim Morrison. In some alternate universe, perhaps. http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/8/messages/554.html Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- "Take your finished text and wherever you find the word 'very,' substitute 'damn.' The editor will then remove all the 'damn's and your prose will be much improved." - Mark Twain's advice to writers >Hello: > >Does the "unhung" here mean >"not hanged yet" Yes. >or is it something else? > >Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? That spelling seems wrong to me. I would expect "hie", meaning "move quickly". If spelled "hie", then the sentence and the meaning of the sentence makes perfect sense. "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. >--- >[Milkman Death visits his aunt, Pilate] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 >--- SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >Does the "unhung" here mean > >"not hanged yet" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > quickly". If spelled "hie", then the sentence and the meaning of the > sentence makes perfect sense. The spelling in the printed version I have is as posted, "Hi." Perhaps this is an intentional mistake on the part of this black lady character, Pilate. > "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 > >--- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu >> >Does the "unhung" here mean >> >"not hanged yet" [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >this is an intentional mistake on the part of this black lady >character, Pilate. Isn't it dialog in a book? Not a diary, but dialog created by Morrison? If dialog, the character couldn't make an intentional mistake in spelling. A character can be made to make an intentional mistake in choice of words, but "hi" and "hie" would not be distinguishable in dialog because they are homonyms. >> "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 >> >--- SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Isn't it dialog in a book? Not a diary, but dialog created by > Morrison? If dialog, the character couldn't make an intentional > mistake in spelling. A character can be made to make an intentional > mistake in choice of words, but "hi" and "hie" would not be > distinguishable in dialog because they are homonyms. It's dialogue in a book, created by Morrison. And it's like this in all editions. You may watch it at Google Books: http://tinyurl.com/yccpq9h > >> "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 > >> >--- Thanks. Marius Hancu > >Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? Well, it's a greeting that has grown common during my own lifetime. It can't be long ago that it was unknown or unbearably cheeky in some circles, the ones where people said "How do you do?" and "Good morning" and used titles and surnames. Even "Hello" (from "hullo, hulloa," a shout) was breezy and rude. You've read novels from enough decades, Marius, that you must know this already. > That spelling seems wrong to me. I would expect "hie", meaning "move > quickly". If spelled "hie", then the sentence and the meaning of the > sentence makes perfect sense. > > "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. I haven't looked at English dictionaries, but the only entry at the Dictionary of the Scots Language treats "hi" and "hie" as two spellings of the same word (also "high, hy(e), hey") with the meaning: A call to a horse, with varying meanings in different districts, but gen. as a command to turn to the left Now I wonder if that was behind the old reproof: "Hey..." "Hay is for horses. Give me a nickel and I'll give you your hay." The homonym hey/hay is enough, but this seems also to be a connection. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > >Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shout) was breezy and rude. You've read novels from enough decades, > Marius, that you must know this already. I wasn't so sure about this advancement of "Hi." Better to ask:-) > > That spelling seems wrong to me. I would expect "hie", meaning "move > > quickly". If spelled "hie", then the sentence and the meaning of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > A call to a horse, with varying meanings in different > districts, but gen. as a command to turn to the left Very interesting, Scots. > Now I wonder if that was behind the old reproof: > > "Hey..." > "Hay is for horses. Give me a nickel and I'll give you your hay." > > The homonym hey/hay is enough, but this seems also to be a connection. Thanks, Donna. Marius Hancu [...] >> I haven't looked at English dictionaries, but the only entry at the >> Dictionary of the Scots Language treats "hi" and "hie" as two [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Very interesting, Scots. Sheepdogs are, of course, taught the difference between right and left. In Wales --and I suppose therefore also among Gaelic-speakers --a pair of dogs is sometimes worked by training one in Welsh and the other in English. I wonder if the same ruse is found among Scots-speaking collies. But revenons à nos moutons: "Said Ravel to de Falla, 'Hiya?'. Said he to Ravel, 'You well?' Neither cared to confess He just couldn't care less." SignatureMike. > [...] >>> I haven't looked at English dictionaries, but the only entry at [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to Ravel, 'You well?' Neither cared to confess He just couldn't care > less." The pedant in me wants to point out that he's called "Falla" and that you only say the "de" if you use the full name, Manuel de Falla. SignatureJames > [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Neither cared to confess > He just couldn't care less." Yours? Google offers no other source. It looks (slightly rearranged, as above) like the genesis of a new kind of limerick. "If Mo tombeaued or Manny caught fire." But ideally the last line would contain a rhyme for each of the first and second lines. I'm sure the many talented RRs here could do better. >> [...] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > and second lines. I'm sure the many talented RRs here could do > better. No, not mine own. I think it was Nicolas Bentley, son of the eponymous EC. SignatureMike. >>> [...] >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > No, not mine own. I think it was Nicolas Bentley, son of the > eponymous EC. [loud cries] >>>> But revenons à nos moutons: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> No, not mine own. I think it was Nicolas Bentley, son of the >> eponymous EC. Sorry, got away from me. Thanks. Lots to be googled on NCB, but still no other hits for the verse. Ah well. > > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > as above) like the genesis of a new kind of limerick. "If Mo > tombeaued or Manny caught fire." "Valsed" instead of "tombeaued"? Oh no wait, you accent "Tombeau" on the first syllable. > But ideally the last line would contain a rhyme for each of the first > and second lines. I'm sure the many talented RRs here could do > better. "If Ravel fell or Falla caught fire"? Rather Lear-ish. A talented RR will be along soon to do better. -- Jerry Friedman [people under thirty say "hey"to everybody] >>> But revenons à nos moutons: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Valsed" instead of "tombeaued"? Oh no wait, you accent "Tombeau" > on the first syllable. Charles was compelled by circumstances to affect a southern English accent. <Gorey illustration wanted> "Tombeau", stress on both syllables in my intention, was my poor attempt at redoing "tumble" as a half-rhyme for Ravel, or / 'r&,vEw/, as I conceived it to be. I like your repetition and actual rhyme too, although it eliminates the references to their respective compositions. >> But ideally the last line would contain a rhyme for each of the >> first and second lines. I'm sure the many talented RRs here could [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Rather Lear-ish. A talented RR will be along soon to do better. So far, so good. >> >Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shout) was breezy and rude. You've read novels from enough decades, > Marius, that you must know this already. Although there have always been those who would answer to "hi", or any loud cry. I'll leave you to decide whether to call me "candle ends" or "toasted cheese". SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk > On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:21:48 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu > > <marius.ha...@gmail.com> wrote: > >Hello: ... > >Was there ever a proscription of 'Hi' in polite manners? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Hi" is a very informal word of greeting. This is the later meaning, dating to the mid 19th century according to the NSOED. Originally it was an exclamation "attracting someone's attention, or expressing encouragement or enthusiasm" and going back to the late Middle Ages. I suspect in this case it encourages the pig to move. Here's an example addressed to an animal: "Get up there, Buck! Hi! Get up there! Mush on!" (For no sheep, name the book and the author.) > >--- > >[Milkman Death visits his aunt, Pilate] [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > >Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon, p. 37 I'm going to enjoy this much more than /The Ambassadors/. Much, much more. -- Jerry Friedman >> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:21:48 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >(For no sheep, name the book and the author.) From the OED: hi, int. [A parallel form to HEY.] 1. An exclamation used to call attention. ?c1475 ... 2. A word of greeting. colloq. (chiefly N. Amer.). 1862 M. D. COLT Went to Kansas ix. 143 When out on the prairie, up galloped an Indian on his pony with his saluting ‘hi!’ and hiya, int. [App. shortened from how are you? and influenced by HI int. 2.] A word of greeting. 1940 ‘N. BLAKE’ Malice in Wonderland I. ii. 31 ‘Hi-ya, boys and girls,’ he cried. ‘Hi-ya, Teddy,’ the cry went back. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > 2. A word of greeting. colloq. (chiefly N. Amer.). > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 1940 'N. BLAKE' Malice in Wonderland I. ii. 31 'Hi-ya, boys and > girls,' he cried. 'Hi-ya, Teddy,' the cry went back. I've been thinking about this and just wanted to say I really like this. "Hi" from "Hiya" from an alteration of "How are you" and possibly with American Indian origins... Sometimes the OED gets Americanisms wrong but this feels quite possible. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:21:48 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >(For no sheep, name the book and the author.) "The Call Of The Wild", Jack London. >> >--- >> >[Milkman Death visits his aunt, Pilate] [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I'm going to enjoy this much more than /The Ambassadors/. Much, much >more. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:57:31 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > "The Call Of The Wild", Jack London. Bingo! (To converge with another thread.) -- Jerry Friedman >> <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:21:48 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Bingo! (To converge with another thread.) No, the dog's name was "Buck". The farmer has the dog named Bingo. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:05:18 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > No, the dog's name was "Buck". The farmer has the dog named Bingo. *clap* *clap* *clapclapclap* -- Jerry Friedman |
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