one-man company?
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StringQ - 13 Jan 2010 11:30 GMT Hi
What's the meaning of one-man company?
Is it an individual company with no employee?
Or an antonym of 'corporate'? (one-man's company)
the Omrud - 13 Jan 2010 11:32 GMT > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Or an antonym of 'corporate'? (one-man's company) It means a business which is owned and run by one person, with no other employees.
 Signature David
HVS - 13 Jan 2010 11:49 GMT On 13 Jan 2010, the Omrud wrote
>> Hi >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It means a business which is owned and run by one person, with > no other employees. It depends, I think, on whether you're defining "business" as a formally-incorporated body: you can work as a "sole trader" and run a business without forming a registered company.
One-man limited companies are quite common with professionals, though, where the company is needed or desired for tax purposes. (I'm one such: I'm the sole director and sole employee of my limited company; my wife is Company Secretary.)
 Signature Cheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
the Omrud - 13 Jan 2010 13:12 GMT > On 13 Jan 2010, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > formally-incorporated body: you can work as a "sole trader" and run > a business without forming a registered company. I was using "business" with its loosest meaning. Any sort of enterprise where work is done for money.
 Signature David
HVS - 13 Jan 2010 13:19 GMT On 13 Jan 2010, the Omrud wrote
>> On 13 Jan 2010, the Omrud wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I was using "business" with its loosest meaning. Any sort of > enterprise where work is done for money. Fair 'nuff. On a usage point, though, I don't think I'd use the OP's term "one-man company" as a synonym for "one-man business" -- to me, the former is a subset of the latter, and implies some sort of formal registration.
 Signature Cheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Garrett Wollman - 13 Jan 2010 17:09 GMT >Fair 'nuff. On a usage point, though, I don't think I'd use the >OP's term "one-man company" as a synonym for "one-man business" -- >to me, the former is a subset of the latter, and implies some sort >of formal registration. There is at least a pondial distinction in the implication of "company". The word "company", in the U.S., does not imply any sort of formal organization -- a sole practitioner named Jones could call his business "The Jones Company" without any formal registration. He could also create any of half a dozen forms of formal organization and still trade under that name. (The main ones would be LLC, LLP, C or S corporation, business trust, and limited or general partnership; the precise forms available vary from state to state, and companies generally have their choice of states in which to register -- most corporations are registered in Delaware, regardless of where they do business, because Delaware won the "race to the bottom" for corporate-friendly legal systems.)
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Garrett Wollman - 13 Jan 2010 17:02 GMT >It depends, I think, on whether you're defining "business" as a >formally-incorporated body: you can work as a "sole trader" and run >a business without forming a registered company. Depending on where you live and what trade you practice, the corporate form may be either mandatory or forbidden. For example, in California, members of the "learned professions" are not permitted to work for (for-profit) corporations, but they may work for non-profits, and they may be members of partnerships. There's a legal dispute (not sure if it's resolved yet) over the law governing corporate structures for morticians in Maryland.
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Evan Kirshenbaum - 13 Jan 2010 18:17 GMT >>It depends, I think, on whether you're defining "business" as a >>formally-incorporated body: you can work as a "sole trader" and run [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > permitted to work for (for-profit) corporations, but they may work > for non-profits, and they may be members of partnerships. Huh? They don't have to pay us overtime, but I'm pretty sure that for-profit corporations are allowed to hire us. Or am I missing what you mean by "learned professions". I had thought that it was any position that essentially required a post-graduate degree (or, recently, equivalent experience).
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Garrett Wollman - 13 Jan 2010 23:51 GMT >> Depending on where you live and what trade you practice, the >> corporate form may be either mandatory or forbidden. For example, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >for-profit corporations are allowed to hire us. Or am I missing what >you mean by "learned professions". The "learned professions" are a subset of the ones that require state licensure: doctors, lawyers, and such, as opposed to hairdressers and real-estate agents. (I read about this in an SSRN article on the structure of California's health-care system, so it's possible that they did not mean to include lawyers as well. It's also possible that they got it wrong -- mere publication is no guarantee of accuracy.)
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Evan Kirshenbaum - 14 Jan 2010 00:33 GMT >>> Depending on where you live and what trade you practice, the >>> corporate form may be either mandatory or forbidden. For example, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > state licensure: doctors, lawyers, and such, as opposed to > hairdressers and real-estate agents. I'm fairly certain that hairdressers require state licensure here.
> (I read about this in an SSRN article on the structure of > California's health-care system, so it's possible that they did not > mean to include lawyers as well. It's also possible that they got > it wrong -- mere publication is no guarantee of accuracy.) I'm not sure what they might have been talking about. I'm pretty sure that HP has RNs working for them (as nurses, as opposed to MDs who aren't necessarily working as physicians). They certainly have lawyers working as lawyers.
I had assumed that you/they were talking about the class defined by Section 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act as being exempt from overtime requirements. The Department of Labor describes this class:
To qualify for the learned professional employee exemption, all of the following tests must be met:
- The employee must be compensated on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455 per week;
- The employee's primary duty must be the performance of work requiring advanced knowledge, defined as work which is predominantly intellectual in character and which includes work requiring the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment;
- The advanced knowledge must be in a field of science or learning; and - The advanced knowledge must be customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17d_professional.htm
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Garrett Wollman - 14 Jan 2010 02:30 GMT >> The "learned professions" are a subset of the ones that require >> state licensure: doctors, lawyers, and such, as opposed to >> hairdressers and real-estate agents. > >I'm fairly certain that hairdressers require state licensure here. Yes, but they are not "learned".
>I'm not sure what they might have been talking about. I'm pretty sure >that HP has RNs working for them (as nurses, as opposed to MDs who >aren't necessarily working as physicians). They certainly have >lawyers working as lawyers. But they are lawyers working exclusively for the company; HP's lawyers don't hang up a shingle (I hope) as this would be a conflict of interest. Nurses likewise (although I suspect nurses aren't considered "learned").
>I had assumed that you/they were talking about the class defined by >Section 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act as being exempt from >overtime requirements. The Department of Labor describes this class: If I had meant to say "exempt", I would have; that is the term of art in that field.
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Evan Kirshenbaum - 14 Jan 2010 05:35 GMT >>> The "learned professions" are a subset of the ones that require >>> state licensure: doctors, lawyers, and such, as opposed to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of interest. Nurses likewise (although I suspect nurses aren't > considered "learned"). I'm very confused. You said that people in such professions "are not permitted to work for (for-profit) corporations". These people are. Do you mean that people self-employed in these professions aren't allowed to also work for for-profit companies?
>>I had assumed that you/they were talking about the class defined by >>Section 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act as being exempt from >>overtime requirements. The Department of Labor describes this class: > > If I had meant to say "exempt", I would have; that is the term of art > in that field. "Learned professionals" is one subset of "exempt". It's also the only place I've heard the term (or anything similar) used, which is why I asked if you could point to a definition.
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sjdevnull@yahoo.com - 14 Jan 2010 05:48 GMT > In article <pr5d1q4s....@hpl.hp.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > interest. Nurses likewise (although I suspect nurses aren't > considered "learned"). There are restrictions on the ownership of law firms in the US; those are set by the American Bar Association, but the distinction is not generally that (as stated upthread) "members of the 'learned professions' are not permitted to work for (for-profit) corporations, but they may work for non-profits, and they may be members of partnerships".
The distinction on who may own legal companies, not whether they're allowed to be for-profit corporations.
Publicly owned corporations are generally required to operate with the interests of their shareholders in mind, first and foremost--they can even be held legally liable if they take actions that knowingly decrease shareholder value because of adherence to other ethical standards (or for any other reason). In practice there's a fair bit of leeway; if a corporate officer reasonably believes that an action is in the long-term interest of shareholders (e.g. by improving the corporate image and helping long-term profitability), it's generally defensible even if it hurts the shareholders in the short-term. But the broad rule is that a public company is obliged to act with its shareholder's interests as its primary reason for decision making.
Lawyers (by which I mean those admitted to the bar) are generally required to act with their clients' interests in mind first, alongside several bar association-mandated ethical guidelines and a certain amount of pro-bono work strongly encouraged.
The ABA views those motivations as potentially in conflict, so law firms in US states* are not allowed to be publicly held--they're often required to be entirely owned by members of the bar (ie lawyers), who are in theory committed to supporting the professional ethical guidelines, clients' interests, etc.
That doesn't mean that a law firm can't be a for-profit corporation, but it can't be publicly held or traded. In practice, the majority of large firms are partnerships, but they certainly can, in general, be for-profit corporations so long as they're owned by barred lawyers.
It's possible that CA has separate rules preventing for-profit law firms, but I'm not convinced that's the case.
I think that the UK and many other areas also have (or had until recently) a similar prohibition on publicly-held law firms.
Lawyers can, of course, work as counsel for publicly held companies-- Microsoft or whoever else can hire lawyers, who are then employees of the public for-profit company, but are not holding themselves out for public practice. Their obligation as an employee of the firm to help the firm itself is not viewed by bar associations as being a conflict of interests, and hence is allowed.
*"US states" is intentionally phrased that way; whether by intention or accident, I believe that publicly held law firms are allowed in Washington, DC and other non-state areas of the USA.
Evan Kirshenbaum - 14 Jan 2010 16:19 GMT > There are restrictions on the ownership of law firms in the US; > those are set by the American Bar Association, but the distinction [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > be for-profit corporations so long as they're owned by barred > lawyers. Okay, that all makes sense, and I can see the same reasoning applying to doctors employed to provide medical care as the company product.
The same could also apply to accountants, but probably doesn't, or H&R Block wouldn't be able to function as a public company, originally part of Sears. (Unless, I guess, they weren't allowed to handle CPAs.)
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tony cooper - 14 Jan 2010 03:28 GMT >>>> Depending on where you live and what trade you practice, the >>>> corporate form may be either mandatory or forbidden. For example, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >I'm fairly certain that hairdressers require state licensure here. Barbers, hairdressers, and real estate agents must be licensed in Florida.
 Signature Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
alan - 13 Jan 2010 18:33 GMT >. . . in > California, members of the "learned professions" are not permitted to > work for (for-profit) corporations, but they may work for non-profits, > and they may be members of partnerships. . .. Really? I'm unaware of any California codes that prevent any profession, "learned" or otherwise, from working for a for-profit organization. Can you give the relevant code citation? Thanks . . .
Evan Kirshenbaum - 13 Jan 2010 18:20 GMT > One-man limited companies are quite common with professionals, > though, where the company is needed or desired for tax purposes. > (I'm one such: I'm the sole director and sole employee of my limited > company; my wife is Company Secretary.) My dad's business is the same way, but there is (I believe) a requirement (at least in Illinois) that in order to get that "limited" status there have to be at least two (distinct) officers. (My mom is the second in their business.)
 Signature Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |So when can we quit passing laws and 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |raising taxes? When can we say of Palo Alto, CA 94304 |our political system, "Stick a fork |in it, it's done?" kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572
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Roland Hutchinson - 15 Jan 2010 07:15 GMT > On 13 Jan 2010, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > formally-incorporated body: you can work as a "sole trader" and run a > business without forming a registered company. The US equivalent to a "sole trader" is a "sole proprietorship", if I am to put credence in the rubrics of the Schedule C that I attach to my federal tax return each year.
 Signature Roland Hutchinson
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tony cooper - 13 Jan 2010 14:34 GMT >Hi > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Or an antonym of 'corporate'? (one-man's company) Depends. Literally, it's a business owned and run by one man who does not employ anyone. It can be used, though, to describe a company where one man controls all decisions, has employees, but does not give the employees any say-so in any aspect of the business.
A similar phrase is "one-man show".
 Signature Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Nick Spalding - 13 Jan 2010 15:06 GMT tony cooper wrote, in <famrk5lp9n782prkrs4gp06o0oehahqfju@4ax.com> on Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:34:40 -0500:
> >Hi > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > A similar phrase is "one-man show". Or slightly more informally a "one-man band".
 Signature Nick Spalding BrE/IrE
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