re: colon
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Masa - 16 Jan 2010 13:30 GMT The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for non-natives, I guess. I found a text on the net that gives us an explanation on usage of colon, using a quiz, as follows:
Incorrect:Technology never exists in a social vacuum, it is embodied in products,processes, and people. Correct:Technology never exists in a social vacuum: it is embodied inproducts, processes, and people. Alternatively:Technology never exists in a social vacuum and is embodied inproducts, processes, and people.
Reading this, I wondered if its correct answer was really true, because I thought although it picked up "colon" as correct, why it shouldn't be "semi- colon".
Semi-colon seems more preferable, if those two sentences could be connected with "AND".
What do you think?
Jonathan Morton - 16 Jan 2010 13:58 GMT > The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for > non-natives, I guess. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Incorrect: Technology never exists in a social vacuum, it is embodied > in products,processes, and people. That's incorrect, because two sentences have been linked by a comma.
> Correct: Technology never exists in a social vacuum: it is embodied > in products, processes, and people. That's not a bad example for a colon. The colon tells the reader that there is a logical link between the sections before and after it. In your particular case the colon says "I've just told you technology doesn't exist in a social vacuum, and if you stick with me I'm going to explain that, conversely, it is embodied...". So you will find a colon if the sense demands "rather" or "instead" or something like that.
A similar use will be found if you imagine "namely" after the colon. For example, I've just told you something about colons: that they're quite useful if properly used.
> Alternatively: Technology never exists in a social vacuum and is > embodied inproducts, processes, and people. I don't like this, because the "and" is illogical. "But" would be more logical if you were going to express the sentence in that manner.
Regards
Jonathan
Skitt - 16 Jan 2010 19:57 GMT >> The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for >> non-natives, I guess. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that. > A similar use will be found if you imagine "namely" after the colon. Hmm, I wouldn't do that. The colon takes the place of a "namely".
> For example, I've just told you something about colons: that they're > quite useful if properly used. I would eliminate the "that" after the colon.
I often use a dash (Ger.: Gedankenstrich) instead of a colon in sentences such as the one being discussed, but that may be a leftover from my early education in Latvia and Germany.
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Jonathan Morton - 17 Jan 2010 14:50 GMT >>> The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for >>> non-natives, I guess. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Hmm, I wouldn't do that. The colon takes the place of a "namely". That's why I said "imagine".
>> For example, I've just told you something about colons: that they're >> quite useful if properly used. > > I would eliminate the "that" after the colon. Yes, I agree it works fine with or without.
> I often use a dash (Ger.: Gedankenstrich) instead of a colon in sentences > such as the one being discussed, but that may be a leftover from my early > education in Latvia and Germany. I sometimes do the same - though more often I use the dash parenthetically - but from a BrE background.
I do find myself fighting against the use of a colon immediately followed by a dash - pure punctuation tautology.
Regards
Jonathan
Skitt - 17 Jan 2010 18:55 GMT
>>>> The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for >>>> non-natives, I guess. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > That's why I said "imagine". Yes, but you said "*after* the colon".
>>> For example, I've just told you something about colons: that they're >>> quite useful if properly used. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I do find myself fighting against the use of a colon immediately > followed by a dash - pure punctuation tautology. I agree with your sentiment.
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Eric Walker - 18 Jan 2010 05:16 GMT [...]
>> I do find myself fighting against the use of a colon immediately >> followed by a dash - pure punctuation tautology. > > I agree with your sentiment. The modern antipathy for combining other punctuation marks with dashes is just that: modern. There definitely are times when that prescribed avoidance is a pain in the elbow.
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R H Draney - 18 Jan 2010 07:21 GMT Eric Walker filted:
>[...] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >just that: modern. There definitely are times when that prescribed >avoidance is a pain in the elbow. How do you feel about combining punctuation marks in other ways?...say, a colon followed by a hyphen and then a closing parenthesis?...r
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Eric Walker - 18 Jan 2010 13:07 GMT [...]
> How do you feel about combining punctuation marks in other ways?...say, > a colon followed by a hyphen and then a closing parenthesis?...r In the use of dashes, my preference, were not modern sentiment so strongly opposed, would be to allow certain other stops to occasionally follow the second dash of a pair with a comma or even a semi-colon, depending on particular circumstances. Whether such marks can sensibly precede a dash is not something I want to venture an opinion on, because I am very poor at conjuring examples of things, and can only try to judge examples set before me. But given my druthers, I'd not impose a flat ban on combining dashes with other marks. On the occasions when the form screams out for such a use, I at least fall back on substituting parentheses for the dashes, which usually makes a minor but nonetheless annoying shift in feeling.
The Chicago, for what that's worth, states that:
"If the context calls for a dash where a comma would ordinarily separate two clauses, the comma should be omitted:
'Because the data had not yet been completely analyzed--the reason for this will be discussed later--the publication of the report was delayed.'"
That might be a place where a dash-comma structure would work were it permitted these days.
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James Hogg - 18 Jan 2010 13:12 GMT > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > That might be a place where a dash-comma structure would work were it > permitted these days. I seem to remember combining a dash with a comma when I was writing my thesis decades ago. I don't think I would do so nowadays. I think it looks very German. For some reason I find it looks even stranger with an American-style em-dash than with a European en-dash.
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Adam Funk - 18 Jan 2010 20:29 GMT > In the use of dashes, my preference, were not modern sentiment so > strongly opposed, would be to allow certain other stops to occasionally [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > That might be a place where a dash-comma structure would work were it > permitted these days. I prefer Sterne's Manual of Style.
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Don Phillipson - 16 Jan 2010 18:25 GMT > The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for > non-natives, I guess. . . . If true, this worry seems unnecessary. Many people write English just as they wish without using colons or semicolons; when readers encounter them, their function in the sentence is usually obvious.
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John Varela - 17 Jan 2010 00:19 GMT > The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for > non-natives, I guess. > I found a text on the net that gives us an explanation on usage of > colon, using a quiz, as follows: A semicolon replaces a conjunction in linking two clauses; a colon ends a sentence and promises that there is something to follow: an example, a list of things, an explanation, etc.
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Mark Brader - 17 Jan 2010 01:10 GMT "Masa" asks about:
> Incorrect:Technology never exists in a social vacuum, it is embodied > in products,processes, and people. It is common in informal usage to use a comma this way, especially when the sentence is very short. "I never do, it's too hot."
> Correct:Technology never exists in a social vacuum: it is embodied > inproducts, processes, and people. The colon is correct, but I think I would use a semicolon. Certainly it's correct either way.
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Eric Walker - 17 Jan 2010 10:56 GMT > The usage of colon and semi-colon is a constant source of worry for > non-natives, I guess. The semi-colon is used when we want a weightier separation of ideas than the comma provides, but less of a one than a period (making two sentences) would make:
1. John likes these sorts of affairs; Mary doesn't.
Now that could be rendered in at least two other ways :
2. John likes these sorts of affairs, but Mary doesn't. 3. John likes these sorts of affairs. Mary doesn't.
None of the three is wrong, and none especially correct: it is a matter of what the writer wants the reader to feel. In #3, the break is quite heavy: it produces a tone of sharpness, terseness, bleakness. It might fit well into a sort of hard-boiled-dick tale. In #2, we have a sense of babbling, of something that is not in sheer grammatical terms a run-on sentence, but that sounds like an old lady who has started talking and can't stop.
The colon is used to introduce a statement that expands on or explains what went before it: in essence, it is the delivery of goods invoiced in the first part of the sentence. I have used it in that way several times in this post.
Note, incidentally, that a colon does not end a sentence any more than a semi-colon does: what follows is still part of the same sentence. That remains so even when, for clarity, the rest of the sentence is broken out as a list, perhaps even a list with bullets or numbering, and thus such lists should be accordingly punctuated.
For example, I might list the marks we are discussing:
. the comma; . the semi-colon; . the colon; and . the period.
Note that despite the indenting and bulleting (which could as well be numbering), we still insert punctuation.
That last also incidentally shows another use of the semi-colon: it can replace the comma in serial listings, and is especially useful in thta capacity when the elements of the listing are each complex (and especially if they contain commas).
I like ham and eggs; bacon; grilled-cheese sandwiches; and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
The various flags were of many colors: red and green; white and blue; red, yellow, and green; and the good old red, white, and blue.
 Signature Cordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/
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