What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
Thanks
> What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
>
> Thanks
What you said might be true, but .... and the sentence goes on to give
reasons it is not true or not important.
"Cabbage has no fat and provides excellent nutrition."
"Be that as it may, I never buy cabbage because I hate the taste."
The second person is admitting that it may be true that cabbage is
low-fat and nutritious, but goes on to explain why he or she doesn't eat
cabbage anyway.

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Cheryl
fyfpoon@gmail.com - 22 Jan 2010 14:18 GMT
> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> --
> Cheryl
In this case it may mean 'even though' or 'inspite of', etc.
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 22 Jan 2010 14:38 GMT
>> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>In this case it may mean 'even though' or 'inspite of', etc.
Not really. The conversation means:
"Cabbage has no fat and provides excellent nutrition."
"That may be true or that may be false, but I never buy cabbage because
I hate the taste."
"Be that as it may" means "That may be true or that may be false, but"
or "It doesn't matter whether that is true or not".
See:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/51/messages/739.html
Posted by Smoke;y Stover on January 02, 2007
In Reply to: Be that as it may posted by Timmy on January 02, 2007
: Be that as it may - Seems to break some sort of grammar law,
sounds great, but I can't picture a comparative.
It doesn't break any rules that I know of. It means "even if that
may be so" or "let that be whatever it is." The subjunctive is not
common, but it's not ungrammatical, and in this case is tidier, more
explicit and more elegant than any re-phrasing.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Lawler - 22 Jan 2010 14:38 GMT
> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> --
> Cheryl
Right. It's a concessive fixed phrase, which translates
more or less like "Whether that is true or not", and is
always a subordinate clause. Now it just means
"even if that's true, it's irrelevant (or anyway I'm
going to ignore it)"
Its origins are very old; it's one of those frozen
subjunctives (subjuncticicles?) that litter the
landscape in English, like "if I were you" or
"would that". The "be" is the infinitive (bare)
form of the verb, which shows up in what used
to be the Present-stem (or Hypothetical)
Subjunctive, as in "It's important that you
be here on time tomorrow."
And it's sitting at the beginning of the clause
because one didn't need an "if" on a
hypothetical clause if it began with a fronted
subjunctive -- the verb form served to mark
the clause. Now we don't have a distinctive
subjunctive form in English any more (unlike
German, where subjunctive verb fronting
is very common), so that's not the rule now.
With all the trimmings restored, it probably
originally came from something like
"[Let] that be [considered true],
as it may [in fact] be [true]"
before syntax got to work in the abbatoir.
Of course we don't have that kind of syntax
around any more either, so we don't always
recognize the products, especially when
they're all shriveled up after a few hundred
years.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue
"Our language can be seen as an ancient city:
a maze of little streets and squares, of old and
new houses, and of houses with additions from
various periods; and this surrounded by a
multitude of new boroughs."
-- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Philosophische Untersuchungen
CDB - 22 Jan 2010 15:05 GMT
>> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> they're all shriveled up after a few hundred
> years.
It seems to me that the conjunction "as" there is not concessive, but
means "in what manner"or "however". "Let that be however it may be
(true or false), [it is still irrelevant]".
> -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue
> "Our language can be seen as an ancient city:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> multitude of new boroughs."
> -- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Philosophische Untersuchungen
James Hogg - 22 Jan 2010 15:09 GMT
>>> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> means "in what manner"or "however". "Let that be however it may be
> (true or false), [it is still irrelevant]".
John means that the whole phrase is a concessive. Another shrivelled
concessive expression with roughly the same original meaning is "albeit".

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James
CDB - 22 Jan 2010 16:43 GMT
>>>> fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> concessive expression with roughly the same original meaning is
> "albeit".
.
Yes, and I agree with that. I only wanted to comment on the minor
point raised by his paraphrase "[Let] that be [considered true], as it
may [in fact] be [true]", which suggested that "as" was being used
concessively*: I think "as" refers more simply to the manner of being,
or the nature or quality, of "that". Another paraphrase, which
occurred to me after I had posted, was "let that be *what* it may
[be]."
I also thought that I should have made it clearer that I wasn't
addressing his previous use of "concessive". Thank you for giving me
a chance to redd up.
*Statement subject to correction, as what is not?
James Hogg - 22 Jan 2010 16:48 GMT
> I also thought that I should have made it clearer that I wasn't
> addressing his previous use of "concessive". Thank you for giving me
> a chance to redd up.
You took the chance to use that verb too. Is it common in Canada?

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James
CDB - 22 Jan 2010 17:01 GMT
>> I also thought that I should have made it clearer that I wasn't
>> addressing his previous use of "concessive". Thank you for giving
>> me a chance to redd up.
>
> You took the chance to use that verb too. Is it common in Canada?
Not IMO, although used by my mother when I was young. The form is
familiar to this group thanks to Bob Cunningham, who proposed it as an
unambiguous spelling for the past tense of "read" (or "reed", as one
might also have it).
Donna Richoux - 22 Jan 2010 21:46 GMT
> > What does this sentence mean? i heard that in an American movie.
>
> What you said might be true, but .... and the sentence goes on to give
> reasons it is not true or not important.
Or change the subject altogether.
> "Cabbage has no fat and provides excellent nutrition."
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> low-fat and nutritious, but goes on to explain why he or she doesn't eat
> cabbage anyway.
It's a really useful phrase in, say, a committee meeting where tangental
dispute has gotten people off target. You say "Be that as it may, ..."
and return to the real subject. It leaves the arguing parties feeling
respected enough (it didn't insult anyone) to cooperate.
A similar, even more quelling phrase, if you need to haul out the big
guns, is "Howsoever it may be..." Lean on the first word, and that plus
the grammar are just strange enough to stun the others.

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Best -- Donna Richoux