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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010plural of abbreviations
I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. I was labeling some files the new year, and was bugged by whether or not to use that overworked apostrophe in the case of an abbreviation. I was filing some EOB's. OR, it is EOBs? What about this one? "There are three A's (or is it As) in aardvark." Somehow, I realllly want that apost in that case. Thanks, Kalmia > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > Kalmia I think it's a controversial question. Generally, you don't use the apostrophe for the plural of an abbreviation, but you can, if it's confusing without the apostrophe. "Confusing" seems to be the subject of debate. I tend to leave the apostrophe out in the plural of numbers, letters and abbreviations, but I have to admit that As can mean 'As' as well as more than one A, so it might be better to write A's even though I don't like it.  SignatureCheryl "Kalmia": >> I was labeling some files the new year, and was bugged by whether or >> not to use that overworked apostrophe in the case of an abbreviation. >> I was filing some EOB's. OR, it is EOBs? >> >> What about this one? "There are three A's (or is it As) in >> aardvark." Somehow, I realllly want that apost in that case. Cheryl Perkins: > I think it's a controversial question. Generally, you don't use the > apostrophe for the plural of an abbreviation, but you can, if it's > confusing without the apostrophe. ... I agree with Cheryl and the others; that correctly describes modern style. This is something that's changed in recent decades. 50 years ago the rule was that if something didn't look like an English word, then inflectional suffixes had to be set off with an apostrophe. So the plural of ABC or A.B.C. was ABCs or A.B.C.'s. Some people still stick by that rule, but as far as I can tell they're in a minority now. SignatureMark Brader | "A colorful quilt reflecting the dispersed development msb@vex.net | of the nation. A sentence fragment." Toronto | --Eric Walker My text in this article is in the public domain. > "Kalmia": > >> I was labeling some files the new year, and was bugged by whether or [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the plural of ABC or A.B.C. was ABCs or A.B.C.'s. Some people still > stick by that rule, but as far as I can tell they're in a minority now. I don't know about others, but I started dropping the apostrophe just about 50 years ago when I got into a business that was replete with acronyms. VORs, ETAs, TASes (that's a hard one), COMPOOLs, RADARs, CPUs, three-letter program names and four-letter item names, etc. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What about this one? "There are three A's (or is it As) in > aardvark." Somehow, I realllly want that apost in that case. We can do without the apostrophes in EOBs and MBEs and CODs and YMCAs. In cases where the omission of an apostrophe might cause confusion, keep it in. You can thus distinguish "three a's" from the word "as". And there are only two l's in "really". SignatureJames >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >And there are only two l's in "really". There's do's and don'ts, and dos and windows. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And there are only two l's in "really". You can also use an apostrophe to indicate omitted letters, if you real'ly think there should be more. Of course, you'd confuse everyone who didn't know what you were on about. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > real'ly think there should be more. Of course, you'd confuse everyone > who didn't know what you were on about. The apostrophe is useful, for instance, if you want to abbreviate greengrocers as 'grocers. SignatureJames >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >We can do without the apostrophes in EOBs... Do you have a mouse in your pocket, James? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Do you have a mouse in your pocket, James? No, I'm just glad to see you. SignatureJames >>>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >No, I'm just glad to see you. Too bad, you could have shot that mouse. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote > fI promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing > found. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What about this one? "There are three A's (or is it As) in > aardvark." Somehow, I realllly want that apost in that case. The rules are not hard and fast. Many people ridicule apostrophised plural abbreviations -- CD's, DVD's -- and although that practice does have a respectable history, it's probably best to avoid it simply on the grounds of least offence. (Those who get upset with the apostrophe will appreciate seeing "CDs" and "DVDs", while those who don't get upset won't object if it's left out.) Single letters, on the other hand, take the apostrophe if leaving it out could cause confusions: it's "Mind your p's and q's", not "Mind your ps and qs". (In your example, it would be "two A's in aardvark", but one could get away with writing about "the three Rs".) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > aardvark", but one could get away with writing about "the three > Rs".) Agh - now I'm reeeaaaalllllly torn between the choices in your three Rs example. : )) By the way, isn't it 'offense"? Or is this the non-american spelling? Just trying to learn, not condemn. On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > By the way, isn't it 'offense"? Or is this the non-american > spelling? Just trying to learn, not condemn. It's one of those pesky BrE/AmE spelling differences. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > It's one of those pesky BrE/AmE spelling differences. This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as ladys. No? On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote -snip- >>> By the way, isn't it 'offense"? Or is this the non-american >>> spelling? Just trying to learn, not condemn. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as > ladys. No? I can't speak for AusE, but I've never seen "ladys" in any standard form of written English. (It looks like a form of "cute" spelling to me -- similar to "ladees 'n' jennelmen".) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >form of written English. (It looks like a form of "cute" spelling to >me -- similar to "ladees 'n' jennelmen".) There is a place in Australia named Ladys Pass. http://www.domain.com.au/Public/SuburbProfile.aspx?searchTerm=Ladys%20Pass&mode= research I haven't been able to discover the origin of the name. It might be Lady's with the apostrophe omitted. Apostrophes are often omitted from place names. Queens, New York City, was named for Queen Catherine of Braganza[1]. "Queens" is therefore the apostrophe-less possessive form of "Queen". A Google search for "ladys" site:.au finds many cases where "ladys" could be interpreted as the possessive form of "lady" or as a possessive plural of "lady". In other instances "ladys" is used as the plural of "lady". http://adelaide.gumtree.com.au/c-Community-other-need-some-male-entertainment-fo r-a-ladys-only-party-W0QQAdIdZ171380124 hi there if your planning a ladys only party and want some wild fun i can be your G string "or boxers" waiter and i do lap dances as well ;) and i love to entertain ;) so contatct me if you like to chat about a private party hens party what ever you like :) CFNM is available as well :) so come on girls what are you waiting for?????? So what if his spelling is a bit dodgy - he is not offering his services as author or proofreader. [1] According to: http://queens.about.com/od/queensalmanac/f/queens_name.htm SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >>>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>>> >>>> It's one of those pesky BrE/AmE spelling differences. One of the factors making it more "pesky" - a word that's not normally part of my vocabulary - is that I've now seen the "s" version so often that it no longer looks wrong to me. That's a problem, because "looking wrong" is my main defence against spelling errors. >>> This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between >>> BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as >>> ladys. No? No. Unless, as James pointed out, your name is Gladies. There are, I believe, one or two cases where AusE spelling does not agree with BrE spelling, but they are so rar^H^H^H uncommon that I can't think of an example. There are certainly vocabulary differences. For example, I say "truck" where a BrE speaker would say "lorry". > There is a place in Australia named Ladys Pass. > http://www.domain.com.au/Public/SuburbProfile.aspx?searchTerm=Ladys%20Pass&mode= research > > I haven't been able to discover the origin of the name. It might be > Lady's with the apostrophe omitted. Apostrophes are often omitted from > place names. In Australia, apostrophes are /always/ omitted from place names. I don't approve, but nobody asked me. At some point the Geographical Names Board, or whatever it's called, decided that, because people keep getting the apostrophes wrong, they should all be summarily banished. I can see one way in which this makes sense. Here's an example. Not far from me there is a town called Nords Wharf. Originally this must have been called either Nord's Wharf, probably after a person called Nord, or Nords' Wharf, after a family. While writing this I discovered that there's a short history of the place on the internet, so I now know that my first conjecture was correct. Even so, most people aren't going to look that up, and pretty much everyone has forgotten who Nord was. So where should the apostrophe go? Simpler to leave it out. There are other cases where the possessive has quietly disappeared. Pulling another local place name out of the hat, I am prepared to guess that the town known as Nelson Bay was once called Nelson's Bay. The simplification, if there was one, would have happened after people had forgotten the origin of the name. That sort of thing has happened all over the world. Completely off topic, but while place names are on my mind: the other day I took a long drive inland in order to meet a mountain woman. (I think I've managed to phrase that in a way that avoids the risk of triggering the old joke.) In my travels I drove through the little town of Stratford. I'm sure there's no need to tell anyone here the name of the river that flows through that town. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >>>>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >There are certainly vocabulary differences. For example, I say "truck" >where a BrE speaker would say "lorry". Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is more common in AusE. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is > more common in AusE. My third-grade spelling list [1] included "gaol/jail", as an indication that both versions were in use. That was umpty-ump years ago. "Gaol" is now obsolete in AusE. [1] The first four words were "about, across, afternoon, air". It's funny how some things can stick in your mind for years. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is >> more common in AusE. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That was umpty-ump years ago. "Gaol" is now obsolete in AusE. Yes, except possibly for the names of some institutions. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>> Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is >>> more common in AusE. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, except possibly for the names of some institutions. Well, yes. They can't be changed without moving the gaol-posts. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>> Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is >>>> more common in AusE. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >Well, yes. They can't be changed without moving the gaol-posts. Nice joke, except isn't gaol pronounced the same way as jail? I'll award you a good visual pun, though. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> Instead of "jail", common in AmE, IrE and BrE, I believe "gaol" is >> more common in AusE. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >That was umpty-ump years ago. That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. >"Gaol" is now obsolete in AusE. > >[1] The first four words were "about, across, afternoon, air". It's >funny how some things can stick in your mind for years. It is hard for me to believe that a word can become obsolete so quickly. Disused, yes, but not obsolete. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> That was umpty-ump years ago. > > That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. I'm gaining an extra ump a month come yesterday. I try not to think about it. >> "Gaol" is now obsolete in AusE. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It is hard for me to believe that a word can become obsolete so > quickly. Disused, yes, but not obsolete. Yes, perhaps "disused" is a better description. It's a word that we read but don't write. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yes, perhaps "disused" is a better description. It's a word that we read > but don't write. What's the difference? When used in reference to words, both OED and Macquarie suggest that obsolete and disused mean the same thing. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >>> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > What's the difference? When used in reference to words, both OED and > Macquarie suggest that obsolete and disused mean the same thing. For me, "obsolete" carries a slight hint that the word has become obscure. "Disused" suggests that, although we don't actively use the word, we all understand it. Or, to put it another way: "disused" suggests that we stopped using it around 50 years ago, and "obsolete" means that we stopped using it a couple of hundred years ago. That might be just me, though. It's a subtle distinction. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >>>> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >That might be just me, though. It's a subtle distinction. It is. To me, "disused" means rarely used and "obsolete" means there is no longer a use for the word. I do not make the historical distinction you seem to, by counting the number of years a word has not been actively used. AFAIC, a word is or it is not "disused" or "obsolete" in the present day. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >> >> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. > >I'm gaining an extra ump a month come yesterday. I try not to think >about it. ObAUE: The expression, "a month come yesterday" confuses me. Because it does, I don't know whether to wish you a belated happy birthday, or not. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >it does, I don't know whether to wish you a belated happy birthday, or >not. I think there is a clue in "I'm gaining". That does not refer to the past. It refers to the future as in "I'm buying a new pair of shoes on Thursday" or "I'm getting a new car next month". If Peter had written "I gained an extra ump a month come yesterday" a belated (by a month and a day) "happy birthday" would have been in order. What he wrote "I'm gaining an extra ump a month come yesterday" refers to an event a month less one day in the future. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >>> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it does, I don't know whether to wish you a belated happy birthday, or > not. It was a joke, of course. "A month come yesterday" doesn't have any meaning at all in standard English usage, because "come yesterday" doesn't make sense. ("Come" clearly indicates the future, and "yesterday" doesn't. Thus, the combination makes sense only to those people who read time travel stories.) My birthday is a month from now, minus one day. (Minus two days, given my delay in replying.) Still, I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't work that out from what I wrote. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>> That was umpty-ump years ago. >>>> That's funny, you sound much, much younger than umpty-ump years old. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >"yesterday" doesn't. Thus, the combination makes sense only to those >people who read time travel stories.) Great joke. >My birthday is a month from now, minus one day. (Minus two days, given >my delay in replying.) Still, I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't work >that out from what I wrote. Since they are not events I look forward to, I no longer announce my own birthdays, but be my guest if you want to announce yours, perhaps on the very day to keep things simple. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >>>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > [1] According to: > http://queens.about.com/od/queensalmanac/f/queens_name.htm People who create maps and software programs for addresses don't like apostrophes. They always want to remove them. The software writers simply don't allow for their existence. When some site spits out "St. John's" (possessive form, allegedly, like so many Canadian places, first sighted or settled or something on St. John's Day) it's almost always because whoever set the thing up doesn't think there are apostrophes in place names. Sometimes, they don't think there should be periods in place names, either. Really, you'd think they'd find out the range of possibilities in place names before developing their software or putting the names on their maps, but no. SignatureCheryl Cheryl Perkins: > People who create maps and software programs for addresses don't like > apostrophes. They always want to remove them. A couple of years ago I mentioned in email an alley in the shape of a backwards L, connecting Bloor and Yonge Streets in downtown Toronto. I wrote (slightly copyedited here): This alley is named "Roy Square" on the street sign at its west end, and on the exit signs in the subway station and in 33 Bloor East; "Roy's Square" on the street sign at the north end, the local-area maps in the subway station, and on MapArt, Pathfinder, and Rand McNally street maps I have at home; "Roy's Square Mews" on signs advertising the retailers along it; and "Roys Square" in Google Maps! Incidentally, Google Maps also had it in the wrong place. I haven't checked lately. But since I wrote that, not only have the apostrophe and the first S disappeared, but so have all the other letters! A developer had bought up the area containing the alley and demolished all the buildings to start a new development, so the alley no longer exists. (At least, it has no street signs any more. As of the last time I looked, at least the west half is still there in the form of a walkway, as work on the site was stopped by the recession and no actual construction has begun.) > The software writers > simply don't allow for their existence. When some site spits out "St. > John's" ... it's almost always because whoever set the thing up > doesn't think there are apostrophes in place names. Couldn't bring yourself to misspell it? (Grin) > Sometimes, they don't think there should be periods in place names, either. Periods are for pikers. There is a village in Quebec with the funny name of "St-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!". After attention was called to it in a newsgroup thread some years ago, I looked it up in the index of my 1991 Rand McNally Road Atlas -- and found that it was listed there as "St.-Louis-du-Ha90 Ha90". (The next year they got it right.) SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Where do you want Microsoft to go today?" msb@vex.net -- Rick Ross My text in this article is in the public domain. >Periods are for pikers. There is a village in Quebec with the funny >name of "St-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!". I've been there -- it's a little village on the Trans-Canada between Edmundston (N.-B.) and Riviere-du-Loup. We stopped at the little tourist information office by the side of the road and asked for an explanation of the name, but I no longer remember it. (No jokes were involved.) I find that Google Maps has it as Saint-Louis-du-Ha ! Ha! (On that trip I drove from Boston to Syracuse and back by way of Portland, Bangor, Bar Harbor, Calais, St. John, Charlottetown, Moncton, Fredericton, Houlton, Presque Isle/Caribou, Madawaska/Fort Kent[1], Riviere-du-Loup, Quebec City, Trois-Rivieres/Shawinigan, Montreal, Ottawa, and Watertown. Can't do those long trips[2] any more.) -GAWollman [1] My (Northern Maine Acadian) mother's ancestral home; there was a family reunion that year. [2] This trip was in the summer of 1998, and was the archetype for further Big Trips, as we called them, until my traveling companion's family responsibilities no longer allowed him to take off for sixteen days at a time. The biggest of these trips was in 2001, which was Boston to South Dakota, and back by way of Rochester, Erie, Fort Wayne, Chicago, Rockford, Dubuque, Quad Cities, Cedar Rapids/Iowa City, Des Moines, Ames, Fort Dodge, Sioux City, Sioux Falls, Vermillion, Omaha, Pierre, Sioux Falls, North Platte, Grand Island, Omaha, St. Joseph, Topeka, Kansas City, Columbia/Jeff. City, St. Louis, Evansville, Louisville, Lexington, Cincinnati, Akron/Canton, and Rochester, all in 16 days. (The double-dip in Omaha was dropping my friend off at the family wedding he was supposed to be attending, before heading back up to and all the way across South Dakota, all in one very very long day.) I still haven't finished organizing the photos from that trip. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 >> Periods are for pikers. There is a village in Quebec with the >> funny name of "St-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!". [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Dakota, all in one very very long day.) I still haven't finished > organizing the photos from that trip. Many thanks for again sharing your booooooooring life. And here are a bunch of accents needed for the French-Canadian cities and towns: ´ ´ ´ ´ ´ ` ` ` ` `. Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ > People who create maps and software programs for addresses don't like > apostrophes. They always want to remove them. The software writers > simply don't allow for their existence. I ran into that today when I wanted the GPS to take me to a store called "Lowe's". There's no way to enter an apostrophe on the GPS. A search for "Lowe" found nothing and a search for "Lowes" found a store called "Lowest Price something-or-other". I had to find the place on my own. Dooing so gave me a real feeling of independence and of superiority to technology. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email On Jan 22, 10:18 am, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote: > On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > It's one of those pesky BrE/AmE spelling differences. This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as ladys. No? No. > On Jan 22, 10:18 am, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote: >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > No. I know one lady who spells her name Gladys. SignatureJames >> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as > ladys. No? No. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>> On 22 Jan 2010, Kalmia wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > No. To expand on that, there is a guy called "Rod Speed" who posts in aus. newsgroups and does this with all words ending in "y", but he just likes to be different. It certainly isn't typical of Australian English. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>> This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between >>> BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > newsgroups and does this with all words ending in "y", but he just likes > to be different. It certainly isn't typical of Australian English. By and large, people who post to newsgroups are pretty weird. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>> This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between >>>> BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > By and large, people who post to newsgroups are pretty weird. But Rod is weird even by Usenet standards. Did you ever come across RVI Seppo? SignatureJames >>>>> This could be getting far afield, but are there differences between >>>>> BrE and Australian spellings? Seems they like to spell ladies as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Did you ever come across RVI Seppo? No; but then I don't read the Australian newsgroups, unless you count the time when I used to read a group called something like aus.jokes.tasteless. I gave up on the joke newsgroups once I realised that I had already heard every joke in circulation. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What about this one? "There are three A's (or is it As) in > aardvark." Somehow, I realllly want that apost in that case. I'd write it with an apostrophe, but I've seen apostrophe haters recommend "There are three 'A's in aardvark", or the same with lower case. I'm not sure whether that's in any style manuals. -- Jerry Friedman >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > recommend "There are three 'A's in aardvark", or the same with lower > case. I'm not sure whether that's in any style manuals. I've certainly adopted that practice. Having programmed in C for far too long I have a nasty habit of using different quotation marks around single letters to those I put around words and quoted sentences. It certainly seems entirely justifiable when quoting as in the aardvark example - you're lifting the letter out of the word and refering to it (exactly as in «there are three words beginning with "th" in this sentence»). In "mind your 'p's and 'q's" it's less directly arguable, as they aren't being quoted in any way, but that doesn't stop me using it. SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. [...] (1) "I promise" is not the correct expression in this situation. Perhaps it's a mistranslation from your native language (which is?). Reason: "I promise" is a declaration assuring that one will or will not do something *in the future*, thus it can't be used with "I searched" (past). Better: -- "I swear ...." (idiomatic; colloquial; very common) -- "Trust me, ...." (idiomatic; very common) -- "I assure you ...." (formal) (2) "... as best I could, but nothing found." isn't quite kosher either. Better: "... as best AS I could, but found nothing." (Someone will argue that "but nothing found" is elliptical.) Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > [...] [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (Someone will argue that "but nothing found" is elliptical.) There are 3740 hits for "as best I could" in Google Books. One on the first page of hits is from "As You Like It", by Shakespeare. It might fall under the "idiom" classification, I think. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > > [...] [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > -- > Skitt (AmE) Whew - now I can sleep tonight. [...] > Whew - now I can sleep tonight. You're welcome. Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > --t > ~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ Uhhh, my reply was to Skitt for finding those three thousand plus instances. But, take credit if it makes you feel good. >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >[...] [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >(Someone will argue that "but nothing found" is elliptical.) "As best I could" sounds right to me, as a rearrangement of "as I could best". If using the other expression, I would say "as well as I could", since "best" doesn't logically admit degrees. SignatureJohn > > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > > [...] > (1) "I promise" is not the correct expression in this situation. > Perhaps it's a mistranslation from your native language (which is?). UH, lemme think. New Englandese is my native tongue. I can drop the r's as well as the next guy. > Reason: "I promise" is a declaration assuring that one will or will not > do something *in the future*, thus it can't be used with "I searched" (past). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > (2) "... as best I could, but nothing found." isn't quite kosher either. Do I at least get credit for my meter? > Better: > "... as best AS I could, but found nothing." > > (Someone will argue that "but nothing found" is elliptical.) How about "I promise (you)....", meaning "I guarantee"? Still not kosher? : )) >>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but >>> nothing found. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > UH, lemme think. New Englandese is my native tongue. I can > drop the r's as well as the next guy. Please be careful when dropping your r's; you could hurt your coccyx. >> Reason: "I promise" is a declaration assuring that one will or >> will not do something *in the future*, thus it can't be used [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Do I at least get credit for my meter? Okay, *some* credit for your iambic meter, maid. However, reading your line feels somewhat like an unsatisfying _coitus interruptus_ because it lacks a finishing, orgasmic iamb (- /): - / - / - / - / - / - / I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. Adding another iambus (e.g., "so far") changes it to near-Hoggian-quality poetry: I searched this group As best I could, But nothing found So far. Extra credit for your "group" - "could" assonance, though. >> Better: >> "... as best AS I could, but found nothing." [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How about "I promise (you)....", meaning "I guarantee"? > Still not kosher? : )) "I guarantee" would have been acceptable; "I promise (you)...." is not, because it implies some *future* action. -- / - / - ~~~ Trochaic Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ >>> (2) "... as best I could, but nothing found." isn't quite >>> kosher either. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > But nothing found > So far. At the risk of reviving a now-defunct thread, we could try: I searched, I promise, Googled high and googled low. Still no f'n eye deer. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing >>>> found. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > "I guarantee" would have been acceptable; "I promise (you)...." is > not, because it implies some *future* action. In future we expect newbies to present their queries in rhymed verse and to state their native tongue or variant of English, something like this: I searched this group as best I could (of that you have my guarantees) but nothing found in my attempt to ascertain if EOBs and other terms to label files perchance require apostrophes just as those "A's in aardvark" do (my native tongue: New Englandese). SignatureJames > >>>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing > >>>> found. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > -- > James Superb-o. I doff my bonnet for that near-sonnet. >> >>>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing >> >>>> found. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> In future we expect newbies to present their queries in rhymed verse and >> to state their native tongue or variant of English, something like this: We? >> I searched this group as best I could >> (of that you have my guarantees) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I doff my bonnet >for that near-sonnet. James may have received help from his mouse. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. > Okay, *some* credit for your iambic meter, maid. However, reading your > line feels somewhat like an unsatisfying _coitus interruptus_ because it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Extra credit for your "group" - "could" assonance, though. If this works properly it is thanks to Peter. SignatureJames > This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > If this works properly it is thanks to Peter. Looks OK, doesn't it? SignatureJames >> This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Looks OK, doesn't it? But see what happens when I use the command Edit Rewrap. Maybe I should avoid that in future. SignatureJames >>> This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But see what happens when I use the command Edit Rewrap. > Maybe I should avoid that in future. Yup, this one looks bad. Distorted as before. Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ >>> This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But see what happens when I use the command Edit Rewrap. Maybe I should > avoid that in future. There's even a trick to make that work. If you highlight a block of text before rewrapping, only the highlighted part is rewrapped. Even better, Thunderbird has an Edit/Undo menu item. That's a feature I use in a great many programs. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > Even better, Thunderbird has an Edit/Undo menu item. That's a feature I > use in a great many programs. That, of course, has become a feature of many software products. The programmers have correctly deduced that this is an "absolutely must have" feature, and in a rare departure from the "more glitz, less function" trend they've given it to us. It would be a major boost to the Intelligent Design theory if someone discovered that we humans had an "Undo" button for some of the decisions we've made. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> This post is a test to see how line breaks are now handled. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Looks OK, doesn't it? Yes, this reply and the preceding one are perfect! Thank you very much, Peter and James. Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >[...] [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Better: >"... as best AS I could, but found nothing." "As best I could" is perfectly good BrE. The "nothing found" isn't standard though. > Reinhold {Rey} Aman [to Kalmia]: [...] >> (2) "... as best I could, but nothing found." isn't quite >> kosher either. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "As best I could" is perfectly good BrE. The "nothing found" > isn't standard though. Google hits found right after my reply to Kalmia: 16,200,000 = as best I could 6,150,000 = as best as I could Thus my "better" version isn't really better, just less common. Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ > I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > Kalmia It is a much debated point as the discussion will attest. The proliferation of acronyms postdates the scribblings of the Victorian uber-grammarians and is thus as open to interpretation as their often dubious proclamations. Seriously folks my own take on this is to regurgitate old opinions thus: "Sixties" does not have an erroneous apostrophe so neither should 60s. Compact Discs=CDs. "There are three As" may cause momentary confusion but no more than a lot of other irregularities in the English language. The capital "A" followed by a lower case "s" should be understood by most people. If you are really so precious you would say " (t)here are three letter As...". >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > If you are really so precious you would say " (t)here are three > letter As...". The word "aardvark" has as many as as "illicit" has is and "untruthful" has us. SignatureJames >>> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >The word "aardvark" has as many as as "illicit" has is and "untruthful" >has us. No fair. You gotta use upper case. The word "aardvark" has as many As as "illicit" has Is and "untruthful" has Us. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing found. >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >If you are really so precious you would say " (t)here are three >letter As...". If been wondering about " (t)here are three letters A...". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> I promise - I searched this group as best I could, but nothing >> found. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > If you are really so precious you would say " (t)here are three > letter As...". While you are at it, bring me another moose. SignatureFrank ess |
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