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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010Is "somewhen" a word?
I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". > I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". John Stuart Mill, Charles Kingsley and H. G. Wells have all used it as a word. Here's how the OED defines it: "At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other. Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow." It's not very common today.  SignatureJames >> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's not very common today. That's an understatement. I've never seen it. --Jeff SignatureIs man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's? --Friedrich Nietzsche Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>> I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the >>> future". [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> It's not very common today. > That's an understatement. I've never seen it. It's got to be a joke. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >It's got to be a joke. I've used it once or twice, coupled with "somewhere". SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I've used it once or twice, coupled with "somewhere". If coupled with somewhere, wouldn't that be "somewhence?" Whence - archiac: Referring to both when and where; in the sense of the object's origin. >> > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Whence - archiac: Referring to both when and where; in the sense of the >object's origin. "Somewhence" is known to the OED: From some (indefinite) place; from somewhere or other. It does not know "somehence", "somethence", "somethither" or "somehither", but does know "somewhither": 1. In some direction. 2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > "Somewhence" is known to the OED: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 1. In some direction. > 2. To some place, = SOMEWHERE adv. 2. It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing, but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |ActiveX is pretty harmless anyway. 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |It can't affect you unless you Palo Alto, CA 94304 |install Windows, and who would be |foolish enough to do that? kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Peter Moylan (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> "Somewhence" is known to the OED: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing, > but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect. Not sure whether I'd ever use it myself, but I'm pretty sure "something" (meaning 'a bit') wouldn't strike me as odd, though perhaps not as a perfect substitute for "somewhat/rather". It seems most common before a comparative. SignatureRob Bannister >> "Somewhence" is known to the OED: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >It's interesting that "somewhere" and "someplace" mean the same thing, >but "somewhat" and "something" don't anymore, at least in my dialect. It's also interesting that, of those, only "someplace" is chiefly AmE. The other three are found in both BrE and AmE. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> >It's got to be a joke. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Whence - archiac: Referring to both when and where; in the sense of the >object's origin. Well, I know I've used it somewhere, somewhen, but I can't be more precise than that. So no, it wouldn't. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > If coupled with somewhere, wouldn't that be "somewhence?" Sometime suits me. It's not a joke, I've seen it before, and I can understand it. >> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >I've used it once or twice, coupled with "somewhere". AOL, plus I'm fairly sure I've seen "somewhen" in poetry. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It's got to be a joke. Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful words. I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet. SignatureRob Bannister >> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are > useful words. I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet. I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable combinations, anywhen(ever). SignatureFrank ess > I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE > as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable > combinations, anywhen(ever). Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in >> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily >> interperable combinations, anywhen(ever). > > Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a > DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways. I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above". SignatureFrank ess >>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in >>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above". Or perhaps "upthread". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in >>>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Or perhaps "upthread". Whenever I've used "elsethread", I've meant "in this thread". Sometimes that means "upthread", sometimes "downthread", because by the time I respond to something there will often have been contributions both above and below. In any case, I avoid words like "above" in this context because I know that the order of reception is different for different people. It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in >>>>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now >that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one. Being neither well-defined nor universally understood, I think "elsethread" is best avoided. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now > that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one. How about "elsethread" for somewhere in the tree descended from this OP, and "otherthread" for a thread descended from a different OP. "Above" would be restricted to a lineal ancestor of this posting. I think I'll do that. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> It had never occurred to me until now that the word was ambiguous. Now >> that it's been pointed out, it's obvious. We need two new words, not one. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I think I'll do that. How about "thisthread" and "otherthread"? I have toyed with "intrathread" and "extrathread" but have not convinced myself. "inthread" / "outthread"? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Jan 24, 8:49 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >>> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in > >>> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Or perhaps "upthread". Those are too limiting--"elsethread" can refer to something found above or below in the thread (or "upthread or downthread" if you prefer). Indeed, I've usually used them when I can't recall exactly where in the thread the reference occurred. > >> I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in > >> AUE as encouragement to develop and write any such easily [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I think I'd hear "in a DIFFERENT thread"; in THIS thread is "above". Not necessarily. Some of the aue threads go for hundreds, even a thousand posts, with scores of subthreads. The reference could be to a remark in a subthread that is neither ancestral to nor descendent from the current posting; it could be almost anywhere. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE > > as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable > > combinations, anywhen(ever). > > Does "elsethread" mean elsewhere in THIS thread, or somewhere in a > DIFFERENT thread? I think I've used it both ways. I've always used it (and understood it to mean) elsewhere in this thread. >> > I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE >> > as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I've always used it (and understood it to mean) elsewhere in this >thread. If you've used the poorly-defined "elsethread" to mean that, why not simply type, in future, "elsewhere in this thread", which will be understood by all? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE >as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable >combinations, anywhen(ever). James Thurber, in his story "The white deer", uses the phrase "otherwhere than here", followed shortly by "otherwhen than now". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >I took the common - at least not unknown - use of "elsethread" in AUE > >as encouragement to develop and write any such easily interperable > >combinations, anywhen(ever). > > James Thurber, in his story "The white deer", uses the phrase "otherwhere than > here", followed shortly by "otherwhen than now". He was having fun with words, which is, after all, what we do here. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful >words. Else soever, too. >I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet. When do you want me to arrive? Anywhen will be fine. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >> I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet. OED: "elsehow. Obs. exc. dial. In some, or any, other way." > When do you want me to arrive? Anywhen will be fine. OED: "anywhen Indefinite compound of when: At any time, ever. Rare in literature, but common in southern dialects." Used by Carlyle. SignatureJames >>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > common in southern dialects." > Used by Carlyle. That is the beauty of all these types of word: they are all instantly comprehensible and sound like real words. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > That is the beauty of all these types of word: they are all instantly > comprehensible and sound like real words. And anyone can utter such a word without ever having heard it, fondly believing they have just coined it. SignatureJames >>>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >That is the beauty of all these types of word: they are all instantly >comprehensible and sound like real words. What's a real word? If enough people use it, isn't it real enough? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > What's a real word? If enough people use it, isn't it real enough? Perish the thought. There are many words, frequently uttered, especially on television, that are definitely phoney. You only have to look at the person saying them. Now of course, on AUE, most contributors are real people, so their noncing about can easily result in real wordiness. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>>>> Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >person saying them. Now of course, on AUE, most contributors are real >people, so their noncing about can easily result in real wordiness. That's for sure. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > > Jeffrey wrote on Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:06:59 -0500: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Why? Under the right circumstances, "somewhen" and "elsewhen" are useful > words. I haven't found uses for "anywhen" or "elsehow" yet. "If you're not afraid of time travel, I'll take you anywhen you like." "On your time machine, or elsehow?" -- Jerry Friedman [...] > It's got to be a joke. Not if one reads novels that posit time travel. All sorts of interesting words become needful, as witness the title of such a novel, "The Whenabouts of Burr". SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ >I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". It is a word, but it is not used very often now. The OED says: somewhen, adv. SECOND EDITION 1989 At some (indefinite or unknown) time; sometime or other. Common in 19th cent. Usu. coupled with somewhere or somehow. 1297 R. GLOUC. (Rolls) 5212 Of e batayles of denemarch at abbe ybe in is londe... Worst hii were, vor oere somwanne adde ydo [etc.]. 1833 J. S. MILL Let. 5 July in Wks. (1963) XII. 163, I shall write out my thoughts more at length somewhere, and somewhen, probably soon. 1863 KINGSLEY Water-Bab. 349 Some folks can't help hoping..that they may have another chance, to make things fair and even, somewhere, somewhen, somehow. 1875 WHITNEY Life Lang. ix. 174 Spoken somewhere and somewhen in the past. 1876 FREEMAN in W. R. W. Stephens Life & Lett. II. 134 To tarry with James Allen..till somewhen about next Wednesday. 1920 H. G. WELLS Outl. History (rev. ed.) viii. 37/1 Somewhen about 50,000 years ago..appeared Homo Neanderthalensis. 1934 J. L. MYRES in E. Eyre Europ. Civilization I. 87 Such accommodation between means and ends, resources and wants, is found to have been achieved, somewhen and somehow, [etc.]. 1975 J. C. MASTERMAN On Chariot Wheel v. 40, I cherished the belief that somehow and somewhen I should find my way to Oxford. It is possible that some of the people who use "somewhen" today are reinventing it by analogy with "somehow" and "somewhere". There is also a rare word "somewhy" which means for some reason or reasons. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". OneLook says "At some indefinite time", but then adds "(This definition is from the 1913 Webster's Dictionary and may be outdated.)" That agrees with my initial reaction, which is that the word is understandable English, but should probably be avoided on the grounds that it's excessively old-fashioned. It would be a useful word if "sometime" didn't already exist. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >Subject: Is "somewhen" a word? Well, it consists of word-constituent characters surrounded by non-word characters, and it violates no constraints of English pronunciation (phonotactics), so I'd say, yes, it is a word. >I recently saw it used in the sense of "some time in the future". If it looks sufficiently like a word that you can ask questions like whether it's a word or not, then it is by definition a word. Whether it is a word or not is not determined by whether it is in your (or anyone else's) vocabulary, or even whether you can find it in some dictionary. As David Moser put it, "This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but its overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context." -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 |
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