> > James Hogg's distorted posts ---------------------------- This is not
> > a complaint, just an observation and puzzle. I've checked which
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> deliberate line breaks. It really makes a mess of verse. Can anyone tell
> me what I can do, preferably without abandoning Thunderbird?
Try looking in the Help files for information on the format=flowed
header line which appears in your post. That may have something to do
with it. Or check other variants of "flow" in the Help file index.
--
franzi
>> James Hogg's distorted posts ---------------------------- This is not
>> a complaint, just an observation and puzzle. I've checked which
>> news client and encoding James uses but can't figure out why his
>> replies completely distort the layout of neatly formatted posts by
>> others.
> I think Peter Moylan explained this a while ago. It's got something to
> do with Thunderbird.
>
> You must understand that I myself hate the way Thunderbird removes
> deliberate line breaks. It really makes a mess of verse. Can anyone tell
> me what I can do, preferably without abandoning Thunderbird?
I too was annoyed by the damage done in my postings. I can't recall now
who gave me this advice, but it appears to have worked.
(The instructions here are for Thunderbird 3.0. Version 2.0.0.14 is
actually superior to 3.0, but I haven't yet gotten around to reverting
to that version. Configuration options have been shuffled around between
versions, so the desired option won't necessarily be in the place I
describe below.)
Choose Tools/Options, and then go to the "Advanced" section. This has
several subsections. Select the one called "General". (That is, the
"General" within "Advanced", not the "General" within "General".) You
should now see a button labelled "Config editor". Click on it. If you
didn't find that button, search through all of Thunderbird's options
until you find something pointing to the configuration editor.
At this point version 3.0 gives a warning about voiding your warranty.
Ignore the warning, and proceed. Thunderbird comes without a warranty -
not like the commercial products, whose warranty states that nothing is
guaranteed to work and anything that goes wrong won't be fixed - so
someone was being frivolous.
In the "Filter" box, type "flowed". This should bring up two option
settings whose names contain the string "flowed". The second one is the
interesting one. Right-click the item called
"mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed", and choose "Toggle" from the popup
menu. That should change the value of that option to "false".
You can now close the various configuration windows, and the problem
should be solved. You won't see any immediate effect; you'll have to
wait until someone quotes you to see whether it worked.
What is going on here is that the MIME headers on a newsgroup article
may optionally include the specification "format=flowed". Or, as many
people have labelled this stupid option, "format=flawed". It specifies,
in effect, that line breaks should not be treated as hard line breaks,
so that any newsreader reading that article is free to re-wrap the
lines. This is possibly a useful feature for e-mail, but should never be
used if you want to preserve deliberately inserted line breaks. This
"feature" should not, in my opinion, have been allowed into the MIME
standard, because it was badly thought out. People who /do/ want soft
line breaks probably don't want them everywhere; there are frequently
places where a line break /must/ be interpreted as a hard line break.
The "format=flawed" option does not allow for this possibility.
One of the nasty consequences of Thunderbird's using it by default is
that the problem does not make itself visible at the sending end. Rey,
James would have seen neatly formatted lines in what he sent to the
newsgroup. A mess does not occur until the article is read by some other
newsreader that understands "format=flowed" (even if it does not
generate such headers itself). By that stage the trail has already been
muddied, such that it's hard to work out where the damage was done. It
certainly took me a while to realise that my own postings were flawed in
this way. I didn't see anything wrong with my articles as such; the
damage didn't appear until someone else quoted me.

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Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
franzi - 24 Jan 2010 12:01 GMT
> What is going on here is that the MIME headers on a newsgroup article
> may optionally include the specification "format=flowed". Or, as many
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> newsreader that understands "format=flowed" (even if it does not
> generate such headers itself).
And as a general remark to Rey and to others who see their newsreader
obeying this header, you may find that hidden in your menus you have
the ability to instruct your newsreader to ignore it and to respect
the original line breaks.
--
franzi
Bertel Lund Hansen - 24 Jan 2010 12:16 GMT
Peter Moylan skrev:
> What is going on here is that the MIME headers on a newsgroup article
> may optionally include the specification "format=flowed". Or, as many
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> lines. This is possibly a useful feature for e-mail, but should never be
> used if you want to preserve deliberately inserted line breaks.
Fidonet was a global network that was running before the
internet - at least as seen from a simple citizen's point of
view. On Fidonet flowed format was the standard, and it was
implemented in the proper way so there was a difference between
soft and hard line-breaks. I think this is the inspiration for
usenet.
... where it should never have been introduced since the protokol
was made without it, and it can only cause problems.
It was nice that the reader - and not the writer - could decide
which line-length he preferred, but since most people/newsreaders
have found a reasonable length, it's not really a problem.

Signature
Bertel
http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/ FIDUSO: http://fiduso.dk/
Garrett Wollman - 24 Jan 2010 17:08 GMT
>Fidonet was a global network that was running before the
>internet - at least as seen from a simple citizen's point of
>view. On Fidonet flowed format was the standard, and it was
>implemented in the proper way so there was a difference between
>soft and hard line-breaks. I think this is the inspiration for
>usenet.
You have the arrow of causality reversed there. Usenet predates
FidoNet (although not by much) and long predates EchoMail.
-GAWollman

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Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Bertel Lund Hansen - 24 Jan 2010 17:53 GMT
Garrett Wollman skrev:
> You have the arrow of causality reversed there. Usenet predates
> FidoNet (although not by much) and long predates EchoMail.
That is why I wrote:
> at least as seen from a simple citizen's point of view
I learned about Fidonet and became a point before the internet
was available to me.

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Bertel
http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/ FIDUSO: http://fiduso.dk/
Robert Bannister - 25 Jan 2010 01:53 GMT
> (The instructions here are for Thunderbird 3.0. Version 2.0.0.14 is
> actually superior to 3.0, but I haven't yet gotten around to reverting
> to that version. Configuration options have been shuffled around between
> versions, so the desired option won't necessarily be in the place I
> describe below.)
I am, admittedly, using version 2.0.0.23 for Macintosh, but your
instructions don't work for me.
> Choose Tools/Options, and then go to the "Advanced" section. This has
> several subsections. Select the one called "General". (That is, the
> "General" within "Advanced", not the "General" within "General".) You
> should now see a button labelled "Config editor".
OK. I did track this down. It's under
Thunderbird>Preferences>Advanced>General
Click on it. If you
> didn't find that button, search through all of Thunderbird's options
> until you find something pointing to the configuration editor.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> "mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed", and choose "Toggle" from the popup
> menu. That should change the value of that option to "false".
Well, I didn't see any warnings, but I couldn't find anything that
looked like "filter" - see partial photo below:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rhban/Config.png

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Rob Bannister
Peter Moylan - 25 Jan 2010 02:14 GMT
>> In the "Filter" box, type "flowed". This should bring up two option
>> settings whose names contain the string "flowed". The second one is the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rhban/Config.png
It's on the second line of your photo, under the long bar labelled
"about.config".

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Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Robert Bannister - 25 Jan 2010 23:56 GMT
>>> In the "Filter" box, type "flowed". This should bring up two option
>>> settings whose names contain the string "flowed". The second one is the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> It's on the second line of your photo, under the long bar labelled
> "about.config".
Thank you.

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Rob Bannister