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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010You say Hate-ee, I say Ha-eetee
I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it "Hate-ee". Have I been wrong all along? How do natives of the place pronounce it? Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.  SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent > earthquake there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How do natives of the place pronounce it? Although I am going only by media interviews by people in Haiti, my impression is that they use the first pronunciation you give, but that the "ee" sound is very shortened so that it may be missed at times by hearers. I'm reminded of the Carmina Burana work: You say Car-meee-na, I say Car-my-na, ... Let's call the whole thing Orff. SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. >> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent >> earthquake there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > You say Car-meee-na, I say Car-my-na, ... Let's call the whole thing > Orff. I eat tea whereas u txt h80. Is it formally known as Prince or Prance? You savour Porto but I prefer Porro All in my Boukman Eksperyans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzQ4fWIh9Ec&feature=related SignatureJames Steve Hayes filted: >I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake >there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. We don't much cotton to saying country names in French..."Niger" is still "NYE-jer" to use and not "nee-ZHAIR", and that other place in West Africa remains "Ivory Coast" (conveniently named after two brands of soap)....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Steve Hayes filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "NYE-jer" to use and not "nee-ZHAIR", and that other place in West Africa > remains "Ivory Coast" (conveniently named after two brands of soap)....r It's odd that the BBC have gone for 'heighty' since they are usually keen to use the native name for places rather than the English one: 'Beijing', 'São Tomé and Principe', 'Chennai', 'Tiananmen Square' and so on. An obvious exception is 'Burma', since the name 'Myanmar' was invented by a regime of which Auntie disapproves I suppose. There was a time when BBC newsreaders were instructed to call the Ivory Coast 'Côte d'Ivoire' - I well remember Jeremy Paxman pronouncing it so on 'Newsnight', with obvious distaste! Robin Johnson filted: >> We don't much cotton to saying country names in French..."Niger" is still >> "NYE-jer" to use and not "nee-ZHAIR", and that other place in West Africa [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I well remember Jeremy Paxman pronouncing it so on 'Newsnight', >with obvious distaste! I know a few who wouldn't be able to come any closer than "coated voyeur"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Steve Hayes: >>> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake >>> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it >>> "Hate-ee". It's always been "Hate-ee" for me. Robin Johnson: > It's odd that the BBC have gone for 'heighty' since they are usually > keen to use the native name for places rather than the English one: > 'Beijing', 'São Tomé and Principe', 'Chennai', 'Tiananmen Square' > and so on. The native name for Sao Tome and Principe is "São Tomé e Príncipe". You seem to have gone half-and-half with your "and Principe". What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square. For the other two, it's dubious whether the names I imagine you have in mind really qualify as "English". But I'd rather not get that thread started again. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "There are no new ideas, only new msb@vex.net mouths to speak them." -- Linda Burman My text in this article is in the public domain. > The native name for Sao Tome and Principe is "São Tomé e Príncipe". > You seem to have gone half-and-half with your "and Principe". > What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't > ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square. "Gate of Heavenly Peace". I've occasionally seen it rendered as this in some guide books. SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. Mark Brader: > > What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't > > ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square. Zhang Dawei: > "Gate of Heavenly Peace". I've heard of that, but only as the translation of the name, not as a name. SignatureMark Brader "How can we believe that?" Toronto "Because this time it's true!" msb@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER > Mark Brader: >>> What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I've heard of that, but only as the translation of the name, not as a > name. And doesn't it refer to the gate itself, rather than the square that is outside the gate? SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> Mark Brader: >>>> What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And doesn't it refer to the gate itself, rather than the square that > is outside the gate? Yes, it does. The square itself is known as Tiān'ānmén Guǎngchǎng (in pinyin). So the name "Tiananmen Square" is *already* a hybrid name between English and a romanisation of the standard written Chinese characters for the name which does not include the tones or the marker used to show where the first compound-word's character divisions are (the apostrophe). So, one could say that it is already the "English name" (to go back to the original point). SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. > I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake > there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. In Canada, I've always heard Hay-tee from English-speakers and Hah-ee-tee (or something like that) from French-speakers. The Canadian francophones speaking on the radio probably aren't of Haitian ancestry and don't speak the verion of French they speak Haiti, but on the other hand, there is a Haitian-Canadian community, so it's not as though there aren't any Canadians who know how to pronounce the name of the place. One of them is our governor-general. SignatureCheryl Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca>: >In Canada, I've always heard Hay-tee from English-speakers and Hah-ee- >tee (or something like that) from French-speakers. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >not as though there aren't any Canadians who know how to pronounce the >name of the place. One of them is our governor-general. I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me as if they were rhyming "Prince" with BrE "nonce", using a vowel sound that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca>: >> In Canada, I've always heard Hay-tee from English-speakers and Hah-ee- [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and > doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me. I've heard that along with an attempt at the French pronunciation - like 'prance' with a very nasal 'a'. I don't know where they got the 'pronce' pronunciation, but there are newsreaders who can't pronounce Canadian place names, never mind Haitian ones. SignatureCheryl > I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by > the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me > as if they were rhyming "Prince" with BrE "nonce", using a vowel sound > that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and > doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me. The name "Port au Prince" is French, so surely it should use the French pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters calling it "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince"). SignatureAndy Clews University of Sussex *** Remove DENTURES if replying by email *** >> I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by >> the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters calling it > "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince"). I think Haitian French is not exactly the same as, well, French French. In English-speaking parts of Canada, French place names are often - almost always - not pronounced the way the French would pronounce them, probably because the last francophone moved out a couple of centuries ago and the anglophones have just gone ahead and adjusted the pronunciation. In francophone areas, of course, you can have two pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivières still call it 'Three Rivers', but they used to, years ago. SignatureCheryl > pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local > anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivières still call > it 'Three Rivers', but they used to, years ago. I didn't hear that at all when we stayed there 15 years ago, in either the OUI or NON sections of town (it was just before the referendum). ¬R >> pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local >> anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivières still call [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ¬R I must be getting old. I was there well before that, and I think the usage was becoming uncommon even then. SignatureCheryl >> pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local >> anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivières still call >> it 'Three Rivers', but they used to, years ago. > >I didn't hear that at all when we stayed there 15 years ago, in either >the OUI or NON sections of town (it was just before the referendum). My wife's great-great-great grandmother, Mary Kerwick, was born there in 1810. When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in 1863 her death notice stated that she was born in "Three Rivers". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the >>> local anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > there in 1810. When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in > 1863 her death notice stated that she was born in "Three Rivers". In Ottawa, in the 1950s, it was regularly called "Three Rivers" in English; when speaking French, you would naturally use the French form. It also appeared on English-language maps as Three Rivers, until some time in the sixties when map nomenclature was officially reformed. Sorry, I don't remember much about the change, and haven't been able to find an account of it. It was probably the increasing assertiveness of French Quebeckers that persuaded most Canadians to use "Trois-Rivières" after the 1960s -- that, and perhaps the fact that there are other places known by the English name. The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivières (in la Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question. >> My wife's great-great-great grandmother, Mary Kerwick, was born >> there in 1810. When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word >for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question. Now that's something to remember. We have some place names that are bilingual, or semi-bilingual. Cape Town / Kaapstad Warmbaths / Warmbad, though now known as Bela Bela SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk C.D. Bellemare: > The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivières (in la > Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of > Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word > for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question. That surprises me. The way I learned it in French class, "fleuve" means a big river and "rivière" means a little one. It's like the distinction in English between "river" on the one hand and "creek", "stream", "run", "brook", etc. on the other, only in French you draw the boundary at a larger size. So this strikes me as like having a town named "Three Creeks" while its inhabitants are named "Tririverites". Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. Lawrence (or St-Laurent), which is certainly a fleuve, so maybe my understanding of the words is just faulty. Wouldn't be the only thing I learned in school that was wrong. SignatureMark Brader | "I think it's safe to say that no person can hope to Toronto | achieve basic life competence without consulting my msb@vex.net | work on a regular basis." -- Cecil Adams My text in this article is in the public domain. > C.D. Bellemare: >> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivières (in la [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > larger size. So this strikes me as like having a town named "Three > Creeks" while its inhabitants are named "Tririverites". Perhaps it's more like using the word "antediluvian" in reference to something that we don't, in English, call "The Deluge". SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> C.D. Bellemare: >>> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivières (in la [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Perhaps it's more like using the word "antediluvian" in reference to > something that we don't, in English, call "The Deluge". Perhaps it's simply that "trifluvian" is a coinage based on Latin rather than French. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > C.D. Bellemare: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > having a town named "Three Creeks" while its inhabitants are named > "Tririverites". I thought that wasa interesting too, and it was one of the reasons I posted the word. My understanding of the difference was that a fleuve runs into a sea or ocean, while a rivi\ere runs into another river, or a lake (I think). I see in atilf that you are right, and the distinction is also one of the size and complexity of the river system. The bigger ones would be more likely to get to a sea, I suppose. > Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. > Lawrence (or St-Laurent), which is certainly a fleuve, so maybe my > understanding of the words is just faulty. Wouldn't be the only > thing I learned in school that was wrong. Ahem. "Saint-Laurent". I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word. There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary, which defines "fluvius" as a river or stream. The example given is "Eurotas fluvius", but I don't know how many Greek rivers there are that don't flow into the Med. Mark Brader: >> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. >> Lawrence (or St-Laurent) ... C.D. Bellemare: > Ahem. "Saint-Laurent". "Ahem"? > I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word. > There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary... Makes sense, at that. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "C and C++ are two different languages. msb@vex.net That's UK policy..." -- Clive Feather > Mark Brader: >>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "Ahem"? A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in French. Delighted to pass it on. >> I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word. >> There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary... > > Makes sense, at that. "At that"? >A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in >French. Delighted to pass it on. Had the hand-slapper ever looked at a map of Quebec? At least on mine, most of those "Saint"s and "Sainte"s aren't spelled out. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 >> A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in >> French. Delighted to pass it on. > > Had the hand-slapper ever looked at a map of Quebec? At least on > mine, most of those "Saint"s and "Sainte"s aren't spelled out. I'm sure. No Académie for the likes of us. The stricture may even have been house style where I worked, but I was given to understand that it was the correct formal spelling. Maybe your map's excuse was the need for economies of space. Mark Brader: >>>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. >>>> Lawrence (or St-Laurent) ... C.D. Bellemare: >>> Ahem. "Saint-Laurent". Mark Brader: >> "Ahem"? C.D. Bellemare: > A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in > French. Delighted to pass it on. What on Earth are you talking about? (Reads followups.) Oh. Don't be silly. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "It's easier to deal with 'opposite numbers' msb@vex.net | when you know you cannot trust them." --Chess > Mark Brader: >>>>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivières is the St. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > What on Earth are you talking about? (Reads followups.) > Oh. Don't be silly. If you don't want silly answers, don't ask silly questions. >> I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by >> the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters calling it > "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince"). In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English approximation would be Porro Prance. In Haitian Creole the t in Port is pronounced, but not the r. To my ears it sounds more like Potto Pwence. For IPA see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-au-Prince To hear the Creole pronunciation listen to the last track of: http://www.amazon.com/Suspan-N-Lepa/dp/B002LA6VOQ SignatureJames > In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English > approximation would be Porro Prance. I know that liaison is becoming increasingly rare in modern French, but I would still have expected a sounded T in Port-au-Prince. SignatureRob Bannister [ ... ] > In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English > approximation would be Porro Prance. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > To hear the Creole pronunciation listen to the last track of: > http://www.amazon.com/Suspan-N-Lepa/dp/B002LA6VOQ This came up here a couple of weeks ago, and as the President of Haiti was interviewed a couple of days ago on television I listened to see how he would pronounce it: he definitely pronounced the r but not the t. However, he was of course speaking French (as Creole would be understood only with extreme difficulty in France), and might well have said it differently if he'd been speaking Creole. Signatureathel A.Clews: > The name "Port au Prince" is French, so surely it should use the French > pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters > calling it "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince"). /-prIn(t)s/ (as in English "prince") is the only pronunciation in the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). The French is transcribed as undergoing liaison, the /t/ being the onset to the second syllable. The main pronunciation of "Haiti" is given as /'heIt i/. Alternatives include two three-syllable pronunciations, differing in the quality of their first vowels: /haI 'i:t i/ and /hA:-/. SignatureJohn >I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake >there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >How do natives of the place pronounce it? That might depend whether they are speaking French, Haitian Creole or English. Wikip says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti Haiti (pronounced /?he?t?/; French Haïti, pronounced: [a.iti]; Haitian Creole: Ayiti, Haitian Creole pronunciation: [ajiti]) In that "i" represents the reduced vowel sound in "happy, serious". "?" represents the i sound in bit, lid, fill, bin. The OED gives for Haitian: ({sm}he{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n, {sm}ha{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n, -{sh}{schwa}n) According to the OED pronunciation guide "e" represents the vowel sound in the French "bébé". >Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake >>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >According to the OED pronunciation guide "e" represents the vowel sound >in the French "bébé". OK, my dictionary says something similar, but how do YOU pronounce it? >>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake >>>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >OK, my dictionary says something similar, but how do YOU pronounce it? BE (Before Earthquake) I might have pronounced it hah-ee-tee. Now, AE, I'm not sure. >>>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake > there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it > "Hate-ee". > Have I been wrong all along? > How do natives of the place pronounce it? > Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. Pronunciation in English has long been Haytee (2 syllables, the H aspirated.) Pronunciation in French has long been Ay -- ee -- tee (3 syllables, H not aspirated.) The national language is French (or Creole French.) Another phonological difference is stress: English stresses the first syllable of Haytee; French has no default stress but usually weights the second syllable more than the others. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) Don wrote on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:45:57 -0500: >> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the >> recent [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> natives of the place pronounce it? Hmm, just checked my >> dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. >Pronunciation in English has long been Haytee (2 syllables, the >H aspirated.) Pronunciation in French has long been Ay -- ee -- tee >(3 syllables, H not aspirated.) The national language is French (or >Creole French.) Another phonological difference is stress: English >stresses the first syllable of Haytee; French has no default stress >but usually weights the second syllable more than the others. Since I find spoken Haitian Creole very difficult to comprehend, do you have definite information that inhabitants pronounce the name as in standard French? There is an example of a difference where Parisians pronounce the name of the resort Chamonix as "Shamonix" and the locals use "Shamoony" (rather close to the historical Chamouni and the English speaker's pronunciation). SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake > there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations. Surely it depends on the language you're using. If you want to say it in French - either français métropolitain or haïtien - it would be a gross mistake to aspirate the "h". The "hate-ee" is correct in English, I believe. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. [...] > The "hate-ee" is correct in English, I believe. Only in the North American variant, which some of the British are now adopting... > [...] >> The "hate-ee" is correct in English, I believe. > > Only in the North American variant, which some of the British are > now adopting... That's the only pronunciation given in the very British pronouncing dictionary compiled by Daniel Jones. It's much older than the mock-French pronunication. SignatureJames > How do natives of the place pronounce it? In last weekend's big benefit concert TV special, Wyclef Jean sang at one point, "Ah-ee-tea, I'm talkin' 'bout hey-tea." ¬R >> How do natives of the place pronounce it? > > In last weekend's big benefit concert TV special, Wyclef Jean sang at > one point, "Ah-ee-tea, I'm talkin' 'bout hey-tea." > > ¬R Maybe he's being inclusive by using a range of pronunciations. On the other hand, words may be sung with a different pronunciation than they are spoken with. I had a French teacher once who liked to play songs for us to write down, and I might not remember much French, but I do remember that some words were pronounced in unexpected ways when sung. SignatureCheryl > On the other hand, words may be sung with a different pronunciation > than they are spoken with. I had a French teacher once who liked to > play songs for us to write down, and I might not remember much > French, but I do remember that some words were pronounced in > unexpected ways when sung. The final e of a French word that was otherwise not pronounced was always pronounced (as a kind of "uh" sound) when we were being taught to sing French songs back in the 1960s. SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. >> On the other hand, words may be sung with a different pronunciation >> than they are spoken with. I had a French teacher once who liked to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > always pronounced (as a kind of "uh" sound) when we were being taught > to sing French songs back in the 1960s. For example, the final <-e> in "AlouettE, gentille AlouettE", in "Allons enfants de la PatriE", and in "FrèrE JacquEs". Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ Glenn Knickerbocker: > > In last weekend's big benefit concert TV special, Wyclef Jean sang at > > one point, "Ah-ee-tea, I'm talkin' 'bout hey-tea." Cheryl Perkins: > Maybe he's being inclusive by using a range of pronunciations. That's certainly how I read the line, seeing it here. First the local pronunciation, then the English one. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "When you say 'non-trivial', can you msb@vex.net quantify that for me?" --Kate Hamilton |
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