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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Ukadians redux
There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, written by people from various South American countries, complaining about the US's habit of referring to itself as "America" and backing the suggestion that US citizens should, instead, be called "Ustatians". Today there's a letter from a Bob Mays, thus: "If citizens of the US should be called Ustatians, then subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland should be called Ukadians." Had he read that here? We may never know, but as ever, aue is ahead of the curve.  SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, > written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Had he read that here? We may never know, but as ever, aue is ahead > of the curve. The adjective Ukadian will inevitably lead to a back-formation: Et in Ukadia ego. SignatureJames > There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, > written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Had he read that here? We may never know, but as ever, aue is ahead > of the curve. In Esperanto the USA is "Usono" and Americans are "Usonanoj". By the same logic, citizens of the UK should be "Ukanoj". Unfortunately the only meaning I can find for "ukano" is "chicanery". SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > same logic, citizens of the UK should be "Ukanoj". Unfortunately the > only meaning I can find for "ukano" is "chicanery". It fits well with Napoleon's "perfide Albion". SignatureJames >>> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >>> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > It fits well with Napoleon's "perfide Albion". And that "duplicitous bastard", Lord Carrington. Mind you, Carrington is half Australian. SignatureMike. >There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Had he read that here? We may never know, but as ever, aue is ahead >of the curve. Would that be a "learning curve" and is it steep or gentle? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >written by people from various South American countries, complaining >about the US's habit of referring to itself as "America" and backing >the suggestion that US citizens should, instead, be called >"Ustatians". That would make us sound like people who equalize pressure. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida Wood Avens filted: >There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland should be >called Ukadians." The name "Usonian" is already used by Wright-thinking Americans...and "UKoGBaNIan" has long been in use in alt.folklore.urban....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, > written by people from various South American countries, complaining > about the US's habit of referring to itself as "America" and backing > the suggestion that US citizens should, instead, be called > "Ustatians". When Ahmed the Jihadist asks "are there any Americans here. those third worlders don't raise their hands, thats the same with our Frostbackistan "friends" so f.ck them all. if Obama wants to save money, eliminate all foreign aid, let them get their help from the Euros and the chinese. > There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, > written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ People from Latin America do not call themselves "Americans," even if they do live in Central America, South America, and North America. They call themselves Mexicans, Peruvians, Brazilians, Chileans, and so forth. People from Canada call themselves Canadians. All of them use the word "American" to mean "people from the United States of America." If people from parts of the American continents not included in the United States are happy with the terminology, what right have people from elsewhere to object? Cece <ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com>: >> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >included in the United States are happy with the terminology, what >right have people from elsewhere to object? Judging by the first paragraph above, they're *not* happy. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > Cece <ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com>: > > If people from parts of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Judging by the first paragraph above, they're not happy. There is no subject for which you will not find some disgruntled wingnut. Brian SignatureDay 365 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com>: >> Cece <ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com>: >> > If people from parts of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >There is no subject for which you will not find some disgruntled >wingnut. If you're happy to categorise all people from elsewhere as "disgruntled wingnuts", I suppose you have a point. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com>: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If you're happy to categorise all people from elsewhere as > "disgruntled wingnuts", I suppose you have a point. You have some evidence that all people elsewhere agree with that? I'd be surprised if a large minority agreed. Brian SignatureDay 365 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >> Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com>: >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You have some evidence that all people elsewhere agree with that? > I'd be surprised if a large minority agreed. I'd be surprised if it rose to the level of a small minority. More when you talk about Spanish than English, but even there, looking at _La Prensa_[1], "el Consulado Americano" almost certainly is the one that reports back to Washington, "dólares americanos" have pictures of U.S. presidents on them, "las autoridades americanas de la Border Patrol" refers to the northern side of the northern border, etc. When this came around previously, I was unable to find a country with a sizeable English-speaking press for which it was particularly hard to find examples written by domestic reporters (and presumably passed by domestic editors) of "America", "American", and (in most cases) even "Americans" refering unambiguously to the U.S. [1] Or, rather, the set of papers that are searched via its web site. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |A specification which calls for 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |network-wide use of encryption, but Palo Alto, CA 94304 |invokes the Tooth Fairy to handle |key distribution, is a useless kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |farce. (650)857-7572 | Henry Spencer http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >included in the United States are happy with the terminology, what >right have people from elsewhere to object? I have no horse in this race. These letters are from people from precisely the South American ("Latin American") states to which you refer, and it's these people who are objecting to the US appropriation of the term "American" to mean "US". So at least some of them are not happy about it. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >>> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >of the term "American" to mean "US". So at least some of them are not >happy about it. It's not a complaint that I give any credence. I would seriously doubt if any of the complainers have ever identified themselves as "Americans". Asked, they would say they are Peruvians or Bolivians, or whatever. Possibly, South American. They don't want us to "appropriate" the term, but they don't use it. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >>>> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >or whatever. Possibly, South American. They don't want us to >"appropriate" the term, but they don't use it. It seems that it's not about their wanting to use the word. A follow-up letter today links the issue to disquiet over the Monroe Doctrine. The letter says no more than that, but this, from Wikip, probably summarises the point of contention: "Many Latin American popular movements have come to resent the "Monroe Doctrine", which has been summarized there in the phrase: "America for the Americans", which translates into Spanish ironically as "América para los americanos". The irony lies in the fact that the Spanish term americano is, in all Latin American countries, used to name the inhabitants of North, Central and South America. However, in English, the term American is related almost exclusively to the nationals of the United States. Thus, while "America for the Americans" sounds very much like a call to share a common destiny, it becomes apparent that it could really imply: "America (the two continents) for the United States". At the turn of the 21st century, popular resentment in Latin America gave rise to a series of left of center leaders who questioned Washington's sincerity." SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>>> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >>>>> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >Doctrine. The letter says no more than that, but this, from Wikip, >probably summarises the point of contention: So, after about 180 years, they are still fretting over the wording? Come to think of it, Americans do the same thing. We still argue about whether or not all Americans, or just Americans that are part of an organized militia, should have the right to bear arms. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Come to think of it, Americans do the same thing. We still argue > about whether or not all Americans, or just Americans that are part of > an organized militia, should have the right to bear arms. But then you'd have to argue about what "organized" means. If you and your friends arrange to go bowling once a week, armed to the teeth, are you an organized militia? SignatureDavid the Omrud filted: >> Come to think of it, Americans do the same thing. We still argue >> about whether or not all Americans, or just Americans that are part of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >your friends arrange to go bowling once a week, armed to the teeth, are >you an organized militia? Not the way *I* bowl....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > > Come to think of it, Americans do the same thing. We still argue > > about whether or not all Americans, or just Americans that are part of > > an organized militia, should have the right to bear arms. > > But then you'd have to argue about what "organized" means. The wording is "A well-regulated militia", and we can certainly argue about what that means as well as about whether it's a qualification for the right to bear arms. At present the argument is academic, but that doesn't have to stop us. > If you and > your friends arrange to go bowling once a week, armed to the teeth, are > you an organized militia? I don't know, but I've found they let you bowl longer. -- Jerry Friedman > On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:34:16 -0500, tony cooper > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > the Americans", which translates into Spanish ironically as "América > para los americanos". ... The key word is "summarized". What Monroe said in his annual message to Congress in Dec. 1823 was, "In the discussions to which this interest [in Russian colonization of northwestern North America] has given rise, and in the arrangements by which they may terminate, the occasion has been judged proper for asserting, as a principle in which the rights and interests of the United States are involved, that the American continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed and maintain, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European Power." http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=041/llac041.db&recNum=4 So the issue is entirely dead. I'm sure some Latin Americans resent other things the U.S. does, and some may think an attitude they resent began with the Monroe Doctrine, but I see little point in their resenting the Monroe Doctrine itself except in a historical way. > At the turn of the 21st century, popular resentment in Latin > America gave rise to a series of left of center leaders who questioned > Washington's sincerity." Hard to imagine. -- Jerry Friedman Wood Avens quoted: > "Many Latin American popular movements have come to resent the "Monroe > Doctrine", which has been summarized there in the phrase: "America for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > America gave rise to a series of left of center leaders who questioned > Washington's sincerity." Apparently Chavez was elected by linguists. SignaturePeter Brandt Nielsen > People from Latin America do not call themselves "Americans," even if > they do live in Central America, South America, and North America. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > included in the United States are happy with the terminology, what > right have people from elsewhere to object? I've lived in Ecuador. People there do object to the term, both as "Americano" in Spanish and as "American" in English, insisting that "American" refers to all North and South Americans. This is well- known enough that I was warned about it in junior high Spanish class. In Spanish, they insisted that I refer to myself as "Estadounidense" or "norteamericano"; I went with the former, feeling that the latter ought to include Mexicans, Canadians, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, and others, though in Spanish it really only applies to those from the US. Even Mexicans have no problems using "norteamericano" to mean "person from the USA". In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real alternative. Translating note (4) from http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=americano 4. It's very common, and therefore acceptable, to use "norteamericano" as a synonym for "estadounidense". Though strictly speaking "norteamericano" could be used equally well in reference to the inhabitants of any North American country, in practice it applies to inhabitants of the U.S. But you should avoid using the word "Americano" to refer exclusively to inhabitants of the US, an abuse made common by the habit of United Statesians referring to their country by the abbreviation "America" (in English, without an accent mark). You shouldn't forget that America is the name of the entire continent, and everyone who lives there is an Americano. On 01 Feb 2010, sjdevnull@yahoo.com wrote >> People from Latin America do not call themselves "Americans," >> even if they do live in Central America, South America, and [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > inhabitants of any North American country, in practice it > applies to inhabitants of the U.S. Perhaps in Spanish; the equivalent in English, of course, is plain wrong. (I've been informed and noticed more than once that one of the identifying usage markers of a Canadian abroad is the use of "North America" and "North Ammerican" to mean "Canada and the US" -- in other words, the English use of "North American" specifically *doesn't* mean "the United States".) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 01 Feb 2010, sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > other words, the English use of "North American" specifically > *doesn't* mean "the United States".) Yeah, as I said I avoid that word even in Spanish. To me, it ought to admit not only Canadians, but also Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Haitians (among many others). I tend to use "estadounidense" in Spanish and "American" in English, though the latter causes occasional grumbling. >(I've been informed and noticed more than once that one of the >identifying usage markers of a Canadian abroad is the use of "North >America" and "North Ammerican" to mean "Canada and the US" -- in >other words, the English use of "North American" specifically >*doesn't* mean "the United States".) I use "North American" in that sense, sometimes including Mexico as well, though anything south of that falls into "Central American" for me. My mental dividing line is, I suppose, the Tropic of Cancer -- anything north of that is "North America". But this does not apply consistently to South America, since a substantial chunk of it is north of the equator. The part south of the Tropic of Capricorn is usually referred to as "the Southern Cone". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > But this does not apply consistently to South America, since a substantial > chunk of it is north of the equator. The part south of the Tropic of Capricorn > is usually referred to as "the Southern Cone". Usually? By whom? The term is hardly known at all in English except by and among people who know the Spanish term "el Cono Sur" (not to be confused with "el Coño Sur"!). Such people normally say "Cono Sur" regardless of whether they are speaking English or Spanish. I've occasionally seen "Southern Cone" written, but virtually never heard it spoken except as an explanation of what "Cono Sur" means. Signatureathel >> But this does not apply consistently to South America, since a substantial >> chunk of it is north of the equator. The part south of the Tropic of Capricorn >> is usually referred to as "the Southern Cone". > >Usually? By whom? I've known it for 30 years. >The term is hardly known at all in English except by and among people >who know the Spanish term "el Cono Sur" (not to be confused with "el >Coño Sur"!). Such people normally say "Cono Sur" regardless of whether >they are speaking English or Spanish. I've occasionally seen "Southern >Cone" written, but virtually never heard it spoken except as an >explanation of what "Cono Sur" means. I'd never seen the Spanish term until you wrote it here, but, as I said, I've known for 30 years that it was called "the southern cone" by English speaking people who live there. I can quite understand that people who don't live there wouldn't have much occasion to use the term, but doesn't that apply to many geographical terms? How many people in Arkansas know where The Wirral is? Or the Boland? A quick Google gives: Results 1 - 10 of about 871,000 for southern cone. (0.28 seconds) That doesn't suggest to me that it is "hardly known at all in English". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes: > A quick Google gives: > > Results 1 - 10 of about 871,000 for southern cone. (0.28 seconds) > > That doesn't suggest to me that it is "hardly known at all in English". A less quick Google would involve actually searching for the expression, instead of two keywords. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto, msb@vex.net "A system which depends upon the secrecy of its algorithm is effectively a single-key code." -- William Brown II > Steve Hayes: >> A quick Google gives: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > A less quick Google would involve actually searching for the > expression, instead of two keywords. But it would still get 409,000 hits, the first page of 100 of which appear to be nearly all relevant. Not a term I was previously familiar with, but it does seem to exist and be reasonably widely used. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |So when can we quit passing laws and 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |raising taxes? When can we say of Palo Alto, CA 94304 |our political system, "Stick a fork |in it, it's done?" kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Steve Hayes: >>> A quick Google gives: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > But it would still get 409,000 hits, Curious. It only gives me 320 000, but I don't dispute that that is more than I would have guessed. > the first page of 100 of which > appear to be nearly all relevant. "Cono sur", on the other hand, gets more than a million, despite the existence of many more web pages in English than in Spanish. > Not a term I was previously > familiar with, but it does seem to exist and be reasonably widely > used. Signatureathel >> the first page of 100 of which >> appear to be nearly all relevant. > >"Cono sur", on the other hand, gets more than a million, despite the >existence of many more web pages in English than in Spanish. Not surprising though, when you consider that the number of Spanish speakers who live there greatly outnumber the English speakers. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since >there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real >alternative. And in any case, "United Statesian" could apply equally to someone from the United States of Brazil. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since >>there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real >>alternative. > >And in any case, "United Statesian" could apply equally to someone from the >United States of Brazil. Or the "United Mexican States" (Estados Unidos Mexicanos). SignatureJohn > >>In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since > >>there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real > >>alternative. > > > >And in any case, "United Statesian" could apply equally to someone from the > >United States of Brazil. The World Factbook says that's no longer true. Brazil changed its name some decades back. conventional long form: Federative Republic of Brazil conventional short form: Brazil local long form: Republica Federativa do Brasil local short form: Brasil > Or the "United Mexican States" (Estados Unidos Mexicanos). The World Factbook says that one still applies: conventional long form: United Mexican States conventional short form: Mexico local long form: Estados Unidos Mexicanos local short form: Mexico SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> >>In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since >> >>there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The World Factbook says that's no longer true. Brazil changed its name >some decades back. Ah well, one fewer source of confusion, then. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since > there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real > alternative. What happened to gringo? --Jeff SignatureIs man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's? --Friedrich Nietzsche > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What happened to gringo? It was also in wide use, with no sense among those who used it that it was in any way inappropriate. >> sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It was also in wide use, with no sense among those who used it that > it was in any way inappropriate. As any old /gabacho/ will agree ... SignatureFrank ess > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > As any old /gabacho/ will agree ... However, in the cafeteria here I once jokingly called myself a / bolillo/, which (for those following at home) is a Mexican word for a French-bread roll or in slang a "whitebread" American, and the Mexican server I said it to distinctly disapproved. -- Jerry Friedman >> sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It was also in wide use, with no sense among those who used it that it > was in any way inappropriate. I think the sense of inappropriateness varies with the distance from the US. In Mexico it's not very polite ore friendly to call someone a gringo, but it's perfectly normal in Chile and doesn't particularly refer to someone from the US -- anyone fair-haired or light-skinned is likely to be called "muy gringuito" regardless of nationality. Signatureathel > >> sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > refer to someone from the US -- anyone fair-haired or light-skinned is > likely to be called "muy gringuito" regardless of nationality. Excellent clarification. As noted upthread, the majority of my experience was in Ecuador. Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >I think the sense of inappropriateness varies with the distance from >the US. In Mexico it's not very polite ore friendly to call someone a >gringo, but it's perfectly normal in Chile and doesn't particularly >refer to someone from the US -- anyone fair-haired or light-skinned is >likely to be called "muy gringuito" regardless of nationality. Would they use it in reference to this blonde, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Brazilian? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuxa ....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: >Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuxa With the artificial-coloured hair and the generous make-up it's pretty hard to tell *what* you're looking at there. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: >> Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > With the artificial-coloured hair and the generous make-up it's pretty > hard to tell *what* you're looking at there. The eyes are probably real, though. I know that in James Bond films people can change their eye colour at will, but I'm not sure how easy it is in real life (especially if you want to go from brown to blue). Signatureathel > > R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: [snip re "gringo"] > >> Would they use it in reference to this blonde, blue-eyed, fair-skinned > >> Brazilian? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > people can change their eye colour at will, but I'm not sure how easy > it is in real life (especially if you want to go from brown to blue). It's gotten easy. They make all sorts of colored contact lenses now, including ones that make dark eyes light. A site with info here: http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/colors.htm And a "color studio" where you can see the effect of colored lenses on various models' eyes -- or on your own face if you want to upload a photo. http://www.freshlookcontacts.com/colorstudio.html SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux Donna Richoux filted: >> The eyes are probably real, though. I know that in James Bond films >> people can change their eye colour at will, but I'm not sure how easy [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >A site with info here: http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/colors.htm It goes a lot further than that: http://www.coastalcontacts.com/halloween-lenses/cHalloweenLenses-p1.html ....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: >>Would they use it in reference to this blonde, blue-eyed, >>fair-skinned Brazilian? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > With the artificial-coloured hair and the generous make-up it's pretty > hard to tell *what* you're looking at there. That was my thought, as well, but the article does say At age 15, Xuxa was followed home by a magazine publisher who spotted the blue-eyed blonde on the train and invited her to audition to be a model. In the late '70s, I'd expect that a blonde 15-year-old was probably natural. And a 1993 Google Books snippet says She is a tall, blue-eyed natural blonde ... SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes | tho kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and (650)857-7572 | straunge |Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so | Chaucer >> R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > She is a tall, blue-eyed natural blonde ... Sofia Vergara is an actress from Colombia (SA)who now appears in the television show "Modern Family" playing the part of a South American. She appears in the show with her natural blonde hair dyed black because the show's producers felt that a blonde South American does not appear to be natural. She is...ummm...rather attractive. http://beautyphotos.blog.dada.net/post/1206971168/Sofia+Vergara+Photo+Gallery SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ....r Probably, yes Signatureathel > Translating note (4) from http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=americano > 4. It's very common, and therefore acceptable, to use > "norteamericano" as a synonym for "estadounidense". Though strictly [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > accent mark). You shouldn't forget that America is the name of the > entire continent, and everyone who lives there is an Americano. I'd say that it's more ... an abuse that can be explained by the habit of ... I'd note that the RAE's own dictionary gives "estadounidense" as sense four of "americano", without any usage note. And that "fútbol americano" and "barra americana" use the adjective to refer to the US without, as far as I know, anybody getting upset. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |A handgun is like a Lawyer. You 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |don't want it lying around where Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the children might be exposed to |it, but when you need one, you need kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |it RIGHT NOW, and nothing else will (650)857-7572 |do. | Bill McNutt http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.com> writes: > > Translating note (4) fromhttp://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=americano [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ... an abuse that can be explained by the habit of ... Yes, much better. > I'd note that the RAE's own dictionary gives "estadounidense" as sense > four of "americano", without any usage note. And that "fútbol > americano" and "barra americana" use the adjective to refer to the US > without, as far as I know, anybody getting upset. "fútbol americano" was definitely in regular use by the same people who objected to using "americano" to refer to people from the US. That inconsistency didn't seem to trouble them. "sjdevnull@yahoo.com" <sjdevnull@yahoo.com>: >> I'd note that the RAE's own dictionary gives "estadounidense" as sense >> four of "americano", without any usage note. And that "fútbol [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >who objected to using "americano" to refer to people from the US. >That inconsistency didn't seem to trouble them. It probably troubled them about as much as inconsistencies in English trouble us. For the same reasons. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England On Feb 1, 4:53 pm, "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.com> wrote: [Ecuador] > In English, they grumbled about my usage of "American", but since > there is no English word "United Statesian" they offered no real > alternative. Did they ever mention people from our country? > Translating note (4) from > http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=americano > It's very common, and therefore acceptable, to use "norteamericano" > as a synonym for "estadounidense". Though strictly speaking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mark). You shouldn't forget that America is the name of the entire > continent, and everyone who lives there is an Americano. Very interesting, thanks. To nitpick, I'd translate "pero debe evitarse el empleo de /americano/" as "the use of /americano/ should be avoided", since the "se" makes me think the subject of "debe" is "empleo", not an understood "usted". The same with all the other "you"s in your translation. -- Jerry Friedman >> People from Latin America do not call themselves "Americans," even if >> they do live in Central America, South America, and North America. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "American" refers to all North and South Americans. This is well- > known enough that I was warned about it in junior high Spanish class. I'm glad you said that. When I've mentioned it here before, people flat-out refused to believe it. I've know people from Brazil, El Salvador, Chile and Mexico who all considered themselves American. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > included in the United States are happy with the terminology, what > right have people from elsewhere to object? Ask an Afrikaaner? >> People from Latin America do not call themselves "Americans," even if >> they do live in Central America, South America, and North America. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ask an Afrikaaner? They would say Amerikaner. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:26:42 +0000 from Wood Avens <woodavens@askjennison.com>: > Today there's a letter from a Bob Mays, thus: > > "If citizens of the US should be called Ustatians, then subjects of > the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland should be > called Ukadians." The alternative, I suppose, is UKOGBANIans, which sounds like citizens of some African country. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... > There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, > written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "If citizens of the US should be called Ustatians Ew, pronounced the same as Eustachian as in "Eustachian tube"? SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. annily filted: >> Today there's a letter from a Bob Mays, thus: >> >> "If citizens of the US should be called Ustatians > >Ew, pronounced the same as Eustachian as in "Eustachian tube"? I'd call that a balanced proposal....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Ew, pronounced the same as Eustachian as in "Eustachian tube"? "Eustachian" also spelled "pharyngotympanic". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> There has been a thread in the (UK) Guardian's Letters columns, >>> written by people from various South American countries, complaining [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > "Eustachian" also spelled "pharyngotympanic". That might do for a citizen of Liechtenstein, but it's a bit on the cumbersome side for a nationality one needs to mention quite often. Signatureathel |
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