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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010usage of both
usage of both 1) She is both dead and buried. 2) They are both dead and buired. 1) is not a problem, because there is no room for misunderstanding. in 2), if they are two persons, could it be interpreted two different ways? a) Both of them are dead and buired. (both: apposition) b) They are dead, and also buried. (both: adverb ) >usage of both > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a) Both of them are dead and buired. (both: apposition) > b) They are dead, and also buried. (both: adverb ) You're right that the attachment of "both" can be seen in two different ways, but there's no difference in implication, since both are dead and both are buried, in both a) and b). "Dead and buried" as a fixed expression means that something or someone no longer needs to be considered, and that's the meaning I would read into example 2, whether referring to people or ideas. "Dead" and "buried" may be meant literally, as in example 1, referring to a particular person, but how often do you need to say that someone is not only dead, but has already been buried?  SignatureJohn >>usage of both >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > different ways, but there's no difference in implication, since both > are dead and both are buried, in both a) and b). The question remains which fact "both" is meant to emphasize. In practice, 2) probably emphasizes that it is the two of them that are dead & buried, and 1) is unlikely to occur. The ambiguity is only in writing. In speech, if "both" means both of them, it will bear the main stress. If it implies "not only dead, but also buried", it will not be stressed, but the last three words will be. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: The greater the trust, the greater the temptation to abuse :|| ||: it. :|| >>>usage of both >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >also buried", it will not be stressed, but the last three words will >be. Dare I suggest that, when "both" means "both of them", there really ought to be a comma. "They are, both, dead and buried." [I'm a great believer in commas.] SignatureIan > usage of both > > 1) She is both dead and buried. > 2) They are both dead and buired. > > 1) is not a problem, because there is no room for misunderstanding. But it is totally unidiomatic. No native speaker would use it. > > 1) She is both dead and buried. > But it is totally unidiomatic. No native speaker would use it. It could be used for extra emphasis, to tell the listener to stop thinking she might come back. Or it could be used to imply (or the context might indicate) some special reason the two states don't necessarily go together: she might have been buried alive, or her corpse might have been left on the couch. ¬R >> > 1) She is both dead and buried. >> But it is totally unidiomatic. No native speaker would use it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >necessarily go together: she might have been buried alive, or her >corpse might have been left on the couch. A movie. The outlaw chief returns, and inquires of his stooges whether the hostage has been disposed of... SignatureJohn 1) They both will be here tomorrow. 2) They will both be here tomorrow. I guess that neither above is wrong. But 2) is more common, isn't it. Does 1) sound strange? or not so strange, and anyway permissible? 1) They both will be here tomorrow. (apposition) 2) They will both be here tomorrow. (adverb and appositional pronoun) "Masa": > 1) They both will be here tomorrow. > 2) They will both be here tomorrow. > > I guess that neither above is wrong. > But 2) is more common, isn't it. Agreed. > Does 1) sound strange? or not so strange, and anyway permissible? Not strange. 1 just puts a bit of emphasis on "both". SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "Gwyneth Paltrow always says I'm a msb@vex.net | shameless name dropper" -- Roger Ford >>>> 1) She is both dead and buried. >>> But it is totally unidiomatic. No native speaker would use it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > A movie. The outlaw chief returns, and inquires of his stooges whether > the hostage has been disposed of... "She is both dead and buried. The corpse over there must be that of another woman." SignatureCheryl >>> 1) She is both dead and buried. >> But it is totally unidiomatic. No native speaker would use it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > necessarily go together: she might have been buried alive, or her > corpse might have been left on the couch. Acts 2:29, King James version: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." SignatureJames |
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