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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010usage of both
usage of both 1) Both my parents will be here tomorrow. 2) Both parents will be here tomorrow. 1) is no problem, with no room to interprete otherwise about "both my parents". About 2): "both parents", is it possible to take its meaning two different ways like below ? a) both someone's parents b) two couples of parents, so totally 4 persons > usage of both > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > a) both someone's parents Yes. > b) two couples of parents, so totally 4 persons No. Never.  SignatureDavid On 02 Feb 2010, the Omrud wrote >> usage of both >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > No. Never. Yup; agreed. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 02 Feb 2010, the Omrud wrote >>> About 2): "both parents", is it possible to take its meaning two >>> different ways like below ? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Yup; agreed. To get four people, you could say "both sets of parents". SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. On 02 Feb 2010, Peter Moylan wrote >> On 02 Feb 2010, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > To get four people, you could say "both sets of parents". Indeed, but I'd say to get four people you *must* say "both sets of parents". (That is, without the "sets of", it always means two people.) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > > 2) Both parents will be here tomorrow. ... > > b) two couples of parents, so totally 4 persons > No. Never. However, "both of their parents" might mean either two parents or two people's parents (or both, if each has only one parent present). You might expect omitting "of" in this case to remove the ambiguity and make it always mean two parents, but it doesn't. "Both their parents" has the same two possible meanings. Even though personal pronouns normally don't take a determiner, "both" and "all" can often modify the plural possessive adjectives. You'd never say "both they," but you might say "both their parents" to mean the parents of both of them. Similarly, "both" modifies demonstrative adjectives but normally not demonstrative pronouns: You could say "both these things" but not "both these are." ("All," though, can modify even demonstrative pronouns: "All these are just observations.") ¬R 1) Both my parents will be here tomorrow. (adjective ) 2) Both of my parents will be here tomorrow. (pronoun) 3) My parents both will be here tomorrow. (apposition) 4) My parents will be both here tomorrow. (adverb) Do you think all the four above are possible explanations, and mean the same thing? > 1) Both my parents will be here tomorrow. (adjective ) > 2) Both of my parents will be here tomorrow. (pronoun) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Do you think all the four above are possible explanations, and mean > the same thing? possible explanations to be corrected to: possible expressions "Masa" asks about: > 1) Both my parents will be here tomorrow. (adjective ) > 2) Both of my parents will be here tomorrow. (pronoun) > 3) My parents both will be here tomorrow. (apposition) > 4) My parents will be both here tomorrow. (adverb) All are equivalent, but 3 is unlikely and 4 is very unidiomatic. Instead of 3 or 4, the normal choice would be 5) My parents will both be here tomorrow. (adverb) SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "...everything else in [the] list is wrong; msb@vex.net | why should [this] be correct?" -- Rob Novak My text in this article is in the public domain. > 3) My parents both will be here tomorrow. (apposition) This form's unusual when the subject is a noun or a compound. It's used more often with a pronoun: "They both will be here." I hear this as the adverb, not an appositive. The distinction's not quite so clear with "be," but consider "My parents both will call." It means that each one will call, not that they'll call together. The pronoun is normally used in apposition only to an object, usually including at least one personal pronoun: "you and me both." > 4) My parents will be both here tomorrow. (adverb) This is possible but odd. Ordinarily "both" would come in the middle of the verb: "will both be here." With "are," it comes after: "are both here." But putting it after "will be" indicates some special connection to what follows: both here together rather than one here in the morning and the other in the afternoon, say. ¬R |
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