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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010How to cut down too many 'and'?
How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? "You can go to a nearby college and take courses, so that you will learn to debate in a civilized manner, or continue to read tabloids and exchange views over beer and cigarettes with your fellow men in a gay bar, and in doing so duplicate the bad habit of your forefathers'. The choice is yours..." "fyfpoon" asks: > How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? Why do you want to? > "You can go to a nearby college and take courses, so that you will > learn to debate in a civilized manner, or continue to read tabloids > and exchange views over beer and cigarettes with your fellow men in a > gay bar, and in doing so duplicate the bad habit of your forefathers'. > The choice is yours..." There is nothing wrong with any of the uses of "and". You might choose to break up the long sentence by starting a new one with "Or you can continue to read", but that's a stylistic choice. There is one small error: "forefathers" should not be in the possessive.  SignatureMark Brader "We demand rigidly defined areas Toronto of doubt and uncertainty!" msb@vex.net -- Vroomfondel (Douglas Adams: HHGTTG) > "fyfpoon" asks: > > How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > There is one small error: "forefathers" should not be in the possessive. There is also the question that, if his forefathers spent their time in gay bars, how did he get here? SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > "fyfpoon" asks: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > There is one small error: "forefathers" should not be in the >possessive. What do you mean? > -- > Mark Brader "We demand rigidly defined areas > Toronto of doubt and uncertainty!" > m...@vex.net -- Vroomfondel (Douglas Adams: HHGTTG) fyfpoon@gmail.com skrev: > > There is one small error: "forefathers" should not be in the >possessive. > What do you mean? Either: and in doing so duplicate the bad habit of your forefathers. or and in doing so duplicate your forefathers' bad habit. The choice is yours. SignatureBertel, Denmark > fyfpoon@gmail.com skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > The choice is yours. Do you have the same judgement for "habit of mine", "of yours", etc.? I don't see any problem with the possessive. With pronouns, I see it as mandatory. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Of course, over the first 10^-10 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |seconds and 10^-30 cubic Palo Alto, CA 94304 |centimeters it averages out to |zero, but when you look in kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |detail.... (650)857-7572 | Philip Morrison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> fyfpoon@gmail.com skrev: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >I don't see any problem with the possessive. With pronouns, I see it >as mandatory. It seems to depend on person-ness - To me, "forefathers'" is on the edge. Pronouns require it, as you say, as do named persons - "A bad habit of John's." But not "A bad habit of some individuals'." SignatureJohn >> Bertel Lund Hansen <splitteminebramsejl@lundhansen.dk>: >>> fyfpoon@gmail.com skrev: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > say, as do named persons - "A bad habit of John's." > But not "A bad habit of some individuals'." I started a posting on this the other day, but discovered while writing that I didn't know as much as I had thought. Still, the use of the idiom with a plural possessor seems to be confined to pronouns: a habit of our father's, but not a habit of our fathers'; and yet, a habit of theirs. A habit of our fathers, but not a habit of them. Another thought: would "a [jointly-owned] photograph of our children's" (noun was changed to avoid phonological confusion) be allowed, on the grounds that "a photograph of our children" is something different? In fact, how about "a bad habit of our children's"? Is it possible that, at least as far as nouns are concerned, the idiom with the plural possessive is avoided simply because it's too easily confused with the plain form or the singular possessive? >>> Bertel Lund Hansen <splitteminebramsejl@lundhansen.dk>: >>>> fyfpoon@gmail.com skrev: [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >because it's too easily confused with the plain form or the singular >possessive? That sounds like a plausible reason for it being uncommon. SignatureJohn > How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gay bar, and in doing so duplicate the bad habit of your forefathers'. > The choice is yours..." You could begin 'You can take courses at a nearby college'. There's one 'and' gone. You could change the last 'and' into 'but'. . >> How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You could begin 'You can take courses at a nearby college'. There's one > 'and' gone. You could change the last 'and' into 'but'. . I'd additionally suggest putting in another "you can" between "or" and "continue" in order to make the parallel structure clearer. I find myself wondering just what about gay bars could possibly play a distinctive role in this line of argumentation. It's hard to know without further context, but I certainly hope it isn't there as just a gratuitous bit of queer bashing. Not the way to frame a persuasive argument from where I sit... SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >>> How to cut down the number of 'and' in the following sentence? >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > there as just a gratuitous bit of queer bashing. Not the way to > frame a persuasive argument from where I sit... Could just be happy hour. |
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