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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Maps in the London Underground network style
In past threads we have discussed the topological, non-geographical, maps of the routes of the London Underground rail lines.[1] Last night there was a brief glimpse of a map in that style during a TV documentary on Imperial Airways. Here are two screen grabs of part of the map: http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes1.jpg http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes2.jpg The map was shown without comment. It appeared during this: [my transcript] Voiceover: It [Imperial Airways] created what became known as Little Englands -- small corners of the Western World where passenger could expect nothing but the very best of British. Onscreen man: They didn't eat local food. They ... I suppose like the British throughout the Empire they tried to keep up the traditions of being British. Wherever the crew and passengers stayed the idea to some extent was to protect them from local food which might kill them, local water that might poison them...and local influences. Here are two images illustrating a "Little England": http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysLittleEngland1.jpg http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysLittleEngland2.jpg I'd say that the phrase "very best of British" is stretching it a bit. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_Map  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > In past threads we have discussed the topological, non-geographical, > maps of the routes of the London Underground rail lines.[1] [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_Map Ingesting the water/food anywhere different is always risky. We joke about not drinking the water in Mexico but the truth is Mexicans can get sick drinking or water. One is used to one's own microbes. >> In past threads we have discussed the topological, non-geographical, >> maps of the routes of the London Underground rail lines.[1] [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >We joke about not drinking the water in Mexico but the truth is Mexicans can >get sick drinking or water. I gather you meant "our water". >One is used to one's own microbes. many, many years ago there was a TV advert for some stomach nostrum that showed an obvious Latino gentleman emerging from an airliner and down the steps of movable stairway holding up a bottle and saying in a latino accent something like, "I always carry my [stomach medicine] when I visit America". I always found it kind of amusing. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Peter Duncanson: > In past threads we have discussed the topological, non-geographical, > maps of the routes of the London Underground rail lines.[1] Designed originally by Harry Beck in 1932, although other railways had used similar designs previously. > Last night there was a brief glimpse of a map in that style during a TV > documentary on Imperial Airways. Interesting. Was there a date given? > Here are two screen grabs of part of the map: > http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes1.jpg > http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes2.jpg Note the diamond symbol for interchanges; that's what Beck originally used before switching to circles around 1940. > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_Map Harrumph. [2] "Mr Beck's Underground Map" by Ken Garland. There are also two companion volumes from the same publisher, by other authors: "No Need to Ask!" by David Leboff and Tim Demuth, covering the earlier era, and "Underground Maps After Beck" by Maxwell Roberts. [3] http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clivebillson/tube/tube.html (requires Javascript enabled). SignatureMark Brader | "...where did they get the sunlight in such a hurry? I know msb@vex.net | it can be delivered in about eight minutes, but there must Toronto | be lots of paperwork involved." -- Michael Wares My text in this article is in the public domain. >Peter Duncanson: >> In past threads we have discussed the topological, non-geographical, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Interesting. Was there a date given? I'll need to watch it again to answer that question. The time frame is fairly restricted. According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Airways In February 1931 a weekly service between London and Tanganyika was started as part of the proposed route to Cape Town ...in 1932 the service to Africa was extended to Cape Town. http://www.imperial-airways.com/History_page_2.html On 19th February 1936, the 'Diana' class was used on a weekly mail service between Kano in Nigeria and London, where it flew between Kano and Khartoum, from where the West African service joined the main Africa trunk route. This service later carried passengers and the route terminal was extended to Lagos on 15th October, and to Accra on the Gold Coast on 13th October 1937. >> Here are two screen grabs of part of the map: >> http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes1.jpg >> http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/ImperialAirwaysRoutes2.jpg That map is obviously for passenger routes. As it includes Kano and other West African stops the earliest date for the map would be October 1937 and presumably the latest would be November 1939 when Imperial was merged with British Airways Ltd to form British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Airways#Amalgamation Imperial might well have used the same style in earlier maps before their services extended to West Africa. >Note the diamond symbol for interchanges; that's what Beck originally >used before switching to circles around 1940. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >[3] http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clivebillson/tube/tube.html > (requires Javascript enabled). SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >[all snipped] Maps in the London Underground network style? If you know the original, nothing beats this, IMO; http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif "Burn if Sparky" (hi, Bob!) is on-topic. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif What a fine set of anagrams. >"Burn if Sparky" (hi, Bob!) is on-topic. "Arcadian Noodle" is close. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Mike Barnes: > > http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif Peter Duncanson: > What a fine set of anagrams. If it's the same one that was created around 2005, leading to some silly people getting in a snit just because the organization whose copyright it was blatantly violating demanded its removal, then about 15-20 of them, depending on how you count, are less than fine. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | Actor sent to jail for not finishing sentence msb@vex.net | --Knoxville, TN, News-Sentinel, 1989-01-21 > Mike Barnes: >> > http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > copyright it was blatantly violating demanded its removal, then > about 15-20 of them, depending on how you count, are less than fine. I don't know that the copyright would be considered "blatantly violated" in the US. Rather, I suspect that it would be seen as a fair-use parody. (Even if it were commercial. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, the "Pretty Woman" case.) Ah. I see from Wikipedia Under Canadian law, although there is protection for Fair Dealing, there is no explicit protection for parody and satire. In Canwest v. Horizon, the publisher of Vancouver Sun launched a lawsuit against a group which had published a pro-Palestinian parody of the paper. Alan Donaldson, the judge in the case, ruled that parody is not a defense to a copyright claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There are just two rules of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |governance in a free society: Mind Palo Alto, CA 94304 |your own business. Keep your hands |to yourself. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Mark Brader: > > If it's the same one that was created around 2005, leading to some > > silly people getting in a snit just because the organization whose > > copyright it was blatantly violating demanded its removal, then > > about 15-20 of them, depending on how you count, are less than fine. Evan Kirshenbaum: > I don't know that the copyright would be considered "blatantly > violated" in the US. Rather, I suspect that it would be seen as a > fair-use parody. ... But the creator included the entire original map except for the labels. That's not fair. SignatureMark Brader | "'"'Tisn't very easy to tell if a '"' or ''' mark Toronto | is an opening or closing quote or ditto or prime," msb@vex.net | said Mark,' said 6'2" d'Artagnan," said Mark Brader. > Mark Brader: >> > If it's the same one that was created around 2005, leading to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > But the creator included the entire original map except for the > labels. That's not fair. For parody, it well might be. There can be enough that the original is evoked, and in this case, without the one-to-one correspondence of lines and stops, the parody wouldn't work. As long as you take "no more ... than necessary" (Campbell v. Acuff-Rose) you've got a case. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |He who will not reason, is a bigot; 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |he who cannot is a fool; and he who Palo Alto, CA 94304 |dares not is a slave. | Sir William Drummond kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Mark Brader: >>>> If it's the same one that was created around 2005, leading to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > lines and stops, the parody wouldn't work. As long as you take "no > more ... than necessary" (Campbell v. Acuff-Rose) you've got a case. It seems to me that, in equity if not in hard law, London Underground suffered no damage. If passengers had been misled, it would be a different matter; but it's difficult to see how that could have happened. But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing guided tours of the Underground's "ghost stations", from South Kentish Town through British Museum to Lords. I had the info from a short-lived free paper in the summer, but here's the company's site, though as it seems awfully slow, you may be able to find a better site if you're interested. http://www.theoldlondonundergroundcompany.com/ SignatureMike. >But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting >to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >interested. >http://www.theoldlondonundergroundcompany.com/ It loaded almost instantly for me. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting >>to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >It loaded almost instantly for me. Oh. Never mind. It's a dummy home page that says "Coming in 2010". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >> But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting >> to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It loaded almost instantly for me. AOL. Interesting. SignatureRob Bannister Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk>: >But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting >to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >interested. >http://www.theoldlondonundergroundcompany.com/ Awfully slow indeed. But when I come across a Flash site that drip-feeds me information (at *any* speed), I go straight for the X button. That site had my attention for about five seconds. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England Mike Barnes filted: >Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk>: >>But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >*any* speed), I go straight for the X button. That site had my attention >for about five seconds. It took me a moment to realize that Mike Lyle meant the phrase "clever businessman" ironically....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Mike Lyle: > But while we're on the subject, there's sonething I've been forgetting > to tell Mark for ages. A clever businessman wants to start providing > guided tours of the Underground's "ghost stations", from South Kentish > Town through British Museum to Lords. ... I've been on a guided tour of Down Street, which during WW2 became the offices of the Railway Executive. A friend arranged it for me, but I believe it was offered through the London Transport Museum in cooperation with the London Underground. We had to walk down to platform level, of course, but not back up -- the last phase of the tour had the entire group boarding a Piccadilly Line train in regular service via the driver's cab! (We got off again at the next station and were escorted through the fare barrier.) But that was in 1997. The tours were never offered on an ongoing regular basis and I understood that the post-9/11 security paran-- excuse me, heightening -- had ended that sort of thing for the foreseeable future. SignatureMark Brader | "...having compressed some 300 million years into Toronto | two paragraphs, I have left out some details." msb@vex.net | -- Roger Gary My text in this article is in the public domain. > Mark Brader: >>> If it's the same one that was created around 2005, leading to some [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But the creator included the entire original map except for the > labels. That's not fair. It might be infringing Farty Towels copyright too. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif That GIF is almost impossible to read and I would love to see it in either a PDF or a higher resolution GIF. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That GIF is almost impossible to read and I would love to see it Looks pretty high resolution to me - is your browser resizing it? SignatureDavid >>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Looks pretty high resolution to me - is your browser resizing it? Or, here's a link to a png: http://www.anagramtubemap.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ SignatureDavid >>>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >http://www.anagramtubemap.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ That's much better. But I reckon that I don't know the area well enough for it to have much meaning for me. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > >>>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: > >>>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > That's much better. But I reckon that I don't know the area well > enough for it to have much meaning for me. Even if you've never been to London, surely you've heard of Sloan Square and South Kensington stations. Sloan Square's anagram has a Q in it, South Kensington's is long and has a K, and the two stations are conjoined. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> >>>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: >> >>>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >in it, South Kensington's is long and has a K, and the two stations >are conjoined. IKIANB it is Sloane (with an e) Square, and Sloane Square and South Ken underground stations are over 1/2 a mile apart. Bob Martin wrote, in <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:26:39 GMT: > >> >>>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"<mail@peterduncanson.net>: > >> >>>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > IKIANB it is Sloane (with an e) Square, and Sloane Square and South Ken > underground stations are over 1/2 a mile apart. But they are adjacent stations on the network. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >Bob Martin wrote, in <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> >on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:26:39 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >But they are adjacent stations on the network. But that doesn't merit being described as "conjoined", does it? I once spent an hour between the two, in total darkness. Not funny! >>Bob Martin wrote, in <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> >>on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:26:39 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >But that doesn't merit being described as "conjoined", does it? >I once spent an hour between the two, in total darkness. Not funny! On the Tube map Sloane Square appears closer to Victoria Station than to South Kensington. I generally think of "adjacent" as being quite close together, touching or nearly touching. Dictionary.com seems to agree. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>Bob Martin wrote, in <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> >>>on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:26:39 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >I generally think of "adjacent" as being quite close together, >touching or nearly touching. Dictionary.com seems to agree. Are you saying the two stations are neither conjoined nor adjacent? I think I'd agree with that. Half-a-mile can be a very long way. >>>>Bob Martin wrote, in <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> >>>>on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:26:39 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Are you saying the two stations are neither conjoined nor adjacent? Yep. >I think I'd agree with that. Half-a-mile can be a very long way. I wonder what two stations that are distinct but connected by tunneled walkways would be called? I seem to recall some on the Pris Metro. I'd like to say "correspondance", but I once left the RER at Rue Avenue Martin where the Metro map shows a corresponance to the Rue de la Pompe Metro station. It turned out I had to leave the RER and walk a several hundred meters down a street (I even had to ask a local where the Metro station was) to get to the Metro station. Sure enough, my ticket was valid for the transfer. Oddly enough, a 2006 Metro PDF map in my map subdirectory shows that correspondance but not my 2008 map. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>> Bob Martin wrote, in >>>> <Pctcn.38280$Ym4.8784@text.news.virginmedia.com> on Wed, 10 Feb [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Are you saying the two stations are neither conjoined nor adjacent? > I think I'd agree with that. Half-a-mile can be a very long way. "A sailor courted a farmer's daughter That lived contagious to the town of Strabane..." SignatureMike. On 09 Feb 2010, Hatunen wrote >> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That GIF is almost impossible to read and I would love to see it > in either a PDF or a higher resolution GIF. That's odd. I saved the GIF and opened it in an image editor, and found it entirely readable; we must be doing something different. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That GIF is almost impossible to read and I would love to see it > in either a PDF or a higher resolution GIF. The GIF is 3,098 by 2,077. What would you consider a readable resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the window.) SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Of course, over the first 10^-10 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |seconds and 10^-30 cubic Palo Alto, CA 94304 |centimeters it averages out to |zero, but when you look in kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |detail.... (650)857-7572 | Philip Morrison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the >window.) I'll try saving, but, as I noted elsewhere, I suspect the anagrams won't mean much to me. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the >window.) IE8 did that, but the cursor is a plus sign in a circle. One click and it zoomed in. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>The GIF is 3,098 by 2,077. What would you consider a readable >>resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the >>window.) > >IE8 did that, but the cursor is a plus sign in a circle. One click >and it zoomed in. My Firefox did exactly the same, and once zoomed in there was no difficulty in reading it. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > > > "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: > > > > [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the > window.) Firefox can be set to scale images. That might be the default. Clicking on the image with bring it to full size. Brian SignatureDay 372 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project Default User filted: >> > > "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >> > > > [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Firefox can be set to scale images. That might be the default. Clicking >on the image with bring it to full size. I'm using Firefox too, and I've got it set to show images at full size...I can shrink them to fit the browser window by clicking anywhere in the image (the cursor is a magnifying glass with a minus sign in the lens)....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: >>>> [all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > resolution? (Make sure your browser isn't scaling it to fit the > window.) Not only that, the sillymaps site gives me a magnifying glass cursor that allows me to view everything writ large, although it still won't conjoin South Ken and Sloane Sq. SignatureRob Bannister Hatunen wrote, in <vg53n5p0h34p9op8cbhsu99nee63gm8ano@4ax.com> on Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:07:56 -0700: > >"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: > >>[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That GIF is almost impossible to read and I would love to see it > in either a PDF or a higher resolution GIF. OK here in IE8 but better if saved and looked at in an image viewer. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >Hatunen wrote, in <vg53n5p0h34p9op8cbhsu99nee63gm8ano@4ax.com> > on Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:07:56 -0700: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >OK here in IE8 but better if saved and looked at in an image viewer. I'm viewing it in Firefox. The image is automatically reduced to fit the screen. When the mouse pointer is over the image it apppears as a magnifying glass with a + in it. A mouse click will expand the image. The scroll bars can then be used to move the required portion of the image into view. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) "Mike Barnes" <mikebarnes@bluebottle.com> wrote : > Maps in the London Underground network style? If you know the original, > nothing beats this, IMO; > > http://ni.chol.as/media/geoff-files/sillymaps/anagrammap.gif > > "Burn if Sparky" (hi, Bob!) is on-topic. Anyone fancy a game of Concerning Torments? pe > "Mike Barnes"<mikebarnes@bluebottle.com> wrote : >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > Anyone fancy a game of Concerning Torments? Haven't you put yourself straight into Din? SignatureDavid > "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net>: > >[all snipped] [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "Burn if Sparky" (hi, Bob!) is on-topic. More maps at http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/ The first one antedates Colossal Cave by 20 years. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email John Varela filted: >More maps at > >http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/ > >The first one antedates Colossal Cave by 20 years. Fun...I'll have to go back and read it in more detail.... Years ago, I had a notion (never fulfilled) to do a map of Great Britain divided up into cuts of meat instead of the traditional counties....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > John Varela filted: >> More maps at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Years ago, I had a notion (never fulfilled) to do a map of Great Britain divided > up into cuts of meat instead of the traditional counties....r ...as one does. SignatureRob Bannister |
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