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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Botulism
Headline of the year so far? 'Scant cant can't hide Bernard-Henri Levy's Kant embarrassment ' <http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/scant-cant-cant-hide- bernard-henri-levys-kant-embarrassment/story-e6frg6so-1225828475924> -- VB Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru >Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru I wonder whether they'd be prepared to fund a vital research project to produce a hybrid of a peccary and armadillo. (No need to tell AUEers what the animal would be called, of course.)  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >(No need to tell AUEers what the animal would be called, of course.) We have peccaries here in Arizona and, mean little beasts that they are, the last thing I want to see is an armored peccary. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>>promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > We have peccaries here in Arizona and, mean little beasts that > they are, the last thing I want to see is an armored peccary. There was a wildlife documentary that showed a pack of peccaries go after a cougar, the cat climbed a saguaro to escape them. >>>>Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>>>promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >There was a wildlife documentary that showed a pack of peccaries go after a >cougar, the cat climbed a saguaro to escape them. A friend of ours has a couple of peccary families on his property, sometimes prowling about near his driveway, but so long as you don't give them reason to get riled up they seem to ignore you. Of course, the problem is to knwo what riles them up. In Arizona the critters have two names. Although known to be peccaries, they are locally known as "javelina" (Spanish pronunciation there). The excellent and local Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, one of the better zoos in the world according to an old BBC report, began in the late 1950s with a male and female that they named "Gregory Peccary" and "Olivia deJavelina." Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>>Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>>>>promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >an old BBC report, began in the late 1950s with a male and female >that they named "Gregory Peccary" and "Olivia deJavelina." Nice. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>>> promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > There was a wildlife documentary that showed a pack of peccaries go after a > cougar, the cat climbed a saguaro to escape them. And if a certain Mr. Piper chose to get them drunk, he'd have picked a pack of pickled peccaries. --Jeff SignatureLove consists of overestimating the differences between one woman and another. --George Bernard Shaw BrE filted: >I wonder whether they'd be prepared to fund a vital research project to >produce a hybrid of a peccary and armadillo. > >(No need to tell AUEers what the animal would be called, of course.) Someone once crossed a tortoise with an armadillo...the females kept getting squashed flat on highways....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > BrE filted: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Someone once crossed a tortoise with an armadillo...the females kept getting > squashed flat on highways....r ...and then turning into little donkeys. -- Jerry Friedman >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Someone once crossed a tortoise with an armadillo...the females kept getting >squashed flat on highways....r In "Heroes" Matt Parkmann comes back from Africa pushing a tortoise in a trolley. He calls it a turtle. Have we covered this here before, for I seem to recall seeing tortoises referred to as turtles elsewhere. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>BrE filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > a trolley. He calls it a turtle. Have we covered this here before, for > I seem to recall seeing tortoises referred to as turtles elsewhere. Oh, yes--it's turtles all the way down, dontcha know. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > >BrE filted: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In "Heroes" Matt Parkmann comes back from Africa pushing a tortoise > in a trolley. He calls it a turtle. What did he call the trolley? > Have we covered this here > before, for I seem to recall seeing tortoises referred to as turtles > elsewhere. We have. I imagine you could find it on Google Groups (which does or doesn't have a monopoly on the Usenet archives). My feeling is that the majority of Americans refer to all chelonians as turtles, possibly unless they've learned that a particular species is a tortoise (such as the Galapagos tortoise). -- Jerry Friedman >> BrE filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > before, for I seem to recall seeing tortoises referred to as turtles > elsewhere. IME, it's normal in AmE to refer to both tortoises and turtles as "turtle". SignatureDavid >>> BrE filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >IME, it's normal in AmE to refer to both tortoises and turtles as "turtle". I believe that's "turtles", not to snap at you. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> BrE filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > IME, it's normal in AmE to refer to both tortoises and turtles as > "turtle". My interior monologue consistently uses "tortoise" for either, because I like the sound of a French-like pronunciation of the word. A member of the County Turtle and Tortoise Society once made clear to me the salient identifiers of each. My lack of retention of those important points is due less to her teaching skills than to my ... what was I saying? SignatureFrank ess >>>> BrE filted: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >points is due less to her teaching skills than to my ... what was I >saying? Tortoises can't swim but can retract their head and feet into their shells. Turtles are the opposite. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England On 10 Feb 2010, Robin Bignall wrote >>>>> BrE filted: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Tortoises can't swim but can retract their head and feet into > their shells. Turtles are the opposite. I learnt it as (paraphrasing) "A tortoise is a type of turtle. All tortoises are turtles, but not all turtles are tortoises". And terrapins are somewhere in between. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 10 Feb 2010, Robin Bignall wrote [...] >>>> IME, it's normal in AmE to refer to both tortoises and turtles >>>> as "turtle". [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > And terrapins are somewhere in between. OBMrsBeeton: Under "Typical American and Canadian Dishes" there are: Terrapin brown stew; Terrapin, to boil; and Terrapin white stew. "The terrapin," we are told, "is a fresh-water or tidal tortoise, of the family Emidae, found from Rhode Island to the Gulf of Mexico. They vary considerably in size, quality and price in different locations." Unfortunately, the great woman's 1906 successors neglect to tell us how to tell the difference between the variable qualities. But since these dishes are typical, I'm confident that our United States correspondents will be able to explain from their experience. There is, or was, a place in southern Spain with a naturalized population of terrapins: the guide book said it was worth sneaking up on the spot when they were basking en masse, just to see the headlong rush into the river when they spotted one. But we completely failed to find the place. SignatureMike. Mike Lyle wrote, in <hl9jgq$glj$1@news.eternal-september.org> on Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:39:06 -0000: > There is, or was, a place in southern Spain with a naturalized > population of terrapins: the guide book said it was worth sneaking up on > the spot when they were basking en masse, just to see the headlong rush > into the river when they spotted one. But we completely failed to find > the place. I saw what I think must have been one in France once near Argenton-sur-Creuse. Like a small turtle, about a foot long. We were on a path by the river and it ran across in front of us and dived into the river. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > Mike Lyle wrote, in <hl9jgq$glj$1@news.eternal-september.org> > on Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:39:06 -0000: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > into > the river. "Headlong rush" and "run" are not the usual words I associate with turtles of any variety. Oh, those sea-going ones who rush to the water shortly after emerging from their eggs, yes, in films. Here is the biggest turtle in the world: http://www.tn.turtle.wi.gov/ But other than that extreme, foot-longs are average-to-large for an adult. I think climate has something to do with the age and size they will grow to. I hear of the leather-back (snapping) turtles getting larger, but I haven't seen any of those larger than about eighteen inches. >"Headlong rush" and "run" are not the usual words I associate with >turtles of any variety. Oh, those sea-going ones who rush to the >water shortly after emerging from their eggs, yes, in films. Turtles do make a headlong rush for the water. They can book. "Run" is not a word I'd use in describing their rapid movement, but they can certainly move rapidly. What baffles me is their ability to detect my approach. I spend some time near lakes and streams in my pursuit of photographs, and turtles sunbathing on a bank scoot into the water when I'm a good distance away. I'm not necessarily in their line of sight, so some other antennae must be working. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony wrote on Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:33:59 -0500: >> "Headlong rush" and "run" are not the usual words I associate >> with turtles of any variety. Oh, those sea-going ones who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Run" is not a word I'd use in describing their rapid > movement, but they can certainly move rapidly. > What baffles me is their ability to detect my approach. I > spend some time near lakes and streams in my pursuit of > photographs, and turtles sunbathing on a bank scoot into the > water when I'm a good distance away. I'm not necessarily in > their line of sight, so some other antennae must be working. I'll have to leave it to an expert to confirm or deny but I think certain animals don't have very clear vision but have a large field of view and their reaction to any change in it is to get the hell out. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > tony wrote on Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:33:59 -0500: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >certain animals don't have very clear vision but have a large field of >view and their reaction to any change in it is to get the hell out. I thought of that, but a water bird can stroll along the bank near the turtles and the turtles don't dive for cover. I'm further away, but they detect me. If it's motion or presence of another creature, I wouldn't show up on their radar any differently from a water bird. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony wrote on Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:32:41 -0500: >> tony wrote on Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:33:59 -0500: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> large field of view and their reaction to any change in it is >> to get the hell out. > I thought of that, but a water bird can stroll along the bank > near the turtles and the turtles don't dive for cover. I'm > further away, but they detect me. If it's motion or presence > of another creature, I wouldn't show up on their radar any > differently from a water bird. I wonder if, like certain snakes, turtles have heat sensors? However, I'll have wait for an expert opinion SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not James Silverton filted: > tony wrote on Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:32:41 -0500: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I wonder if, like certain snakes, turtles have heat sensors? However, >I'll have wait for an expert opinion If we only knew an expert on tortology, we'd know whom to ask....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > "James Silverton" wrote: >> tony wrote: >>>> "Headlong rush" and "run" are not the usual words I associate >>>> with turtles of any variety. Oh, those sea-going ones who [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > they detect me. If it's motion or presence of another creature, I > wouldn't show up on their radar any differently from a water bird. Does the ground shake when you walk? SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>"Headlong rush" and "run" are not the usual words I associate with >>turtles of any variety. Oh, those sea-going ones who rush to the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > away. I'm not necessarily in their line of sight, so some other > antennae must be working. Ground vibrations, Tony? After all, they are bare-footed, > Mike Lyle wrote, in <hl9jgq$glj$1@news.eternal-september.org> > on Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:39:06 -0000: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > were on a path by the river and it ran across in front of us and > dived into the river. We spent a little time in San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico. It was developed in the first half of the 20th century as a seaside resort for Guadalajarans and Chilangos (Mexico DFers). One of the features was a jungle population of "cayman", crocodile-ish animals imported from North Africa for the delight of tourists. Our guide on the boat ride through the swamp felt he had to guarantee cayman viewings as part of the winding half-hour ride from near the town to a swimming hole with natural fresh-water springs and a concession stand. It was a nice, cool ride, the swimming hole was charming, the beer was great, but the whole thing would have been more relaxing if the guide hadn't reacted to every splash or noise along the way with, "There's one now! Uh-oh; too late". Never saw a cayman. At lunch in San Blas a bit of sand fell onto the table. Looking up we saw an iguana lizard making its deliberate way across the ceiling. Just thought I'd add a little Western-hemisphere wildlife adventure to the thread. I have a couple of javelina stories, too, but they are not very pleasant. SignatureFrank ess > We spent a little time in San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico. It was developed > in the first half of the 20th century as a seaside resort for > Guadalajarans and Chilangos (Mexico DFers). One of the features was a > jungle population of "cayman", crocodile-ish animals imported from > North Africa for the delight of tourists. I've picked up enough about crocodiles from my husband, whose field of research that is, to know that didn't sound possible. He agrees that if anyone brought living African crocodilians to release in Mexico, there would have been a noticeable uproar in croc specialist circles. There are enough native caimans and crocodiles there already. A page on the Common Caiman, or Spectacled Caiman (Caiman crocodilus) here: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_ccro.htm I found a page that says there is a hatch-release program in the San Blas area, so that could be where you got the idea of active human promotion. Just not from Africa. There are all sorts of confusions in the terminology. In some languages of Africa, Nile crocodiles are also called "caiman," so my husband thinks that black slaves quite possibly brought the word to the new world, and applied it to the animals there. The Spanish already had cocodrilos and el legarto... SignatureBest - Donna Richoux >> We spent a little time in San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico. It was >> developed in the first half of the 20th century as a seaside [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to the new world, and applied it to the animals there. The Spanish > already had cocodrilos and el legarto... Very good! Now I'll be able to tell a more accurate story. Thank you. I learned the North Africa mistake from some written materials, some time in the 1970s; I don't remember which, nor where I found them. Doesn't seem to me there is much chance of them outpacing the real knowledge now so easily available and widespread, so I don't think they'll pollute the environment to any great degree. SignatureFrank ess > Just thought I'd add a little Western-hemisphere wildlife adventure to > the thread. We were on a tour of the Maya ruins of Tikal, in Guatemala. My wife and another woman were lagging the group when they heard an awful roaring noise from the jungle. The other woman exclaimed, "It'a a jaguar!" Then they saw the guide trailing them, laughing like hell. The noise was from a howler monkey. SignatureJohn Varela > Tortoises can't swim but can retract their head and feet into their > shells. Turtles are the opposite. The can swim, and they can retract their shells into their head and feet? Cool. SignatureDavid [...] >>My interior monologue consistently uses "tortoise" for either, because >>I like the sound of a French-like pronunciation of the word. A member [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Tortoises can't swim but can retract their head and feet into their > shells. Turtles are the opposite. According to this, pondian differences in nomenclature muddy the waters: [quote] 21) What's the difference between a tortoise and a turtle? [Glen Jacobsen and Darrell Senneke] Strictly semantics. All are chelonians. All chelonians are turtles. There is indeed a regional variance in the naming of chelonians. With the advent of modern communications this regional variation is becoming blurred. In the USA - a turtle is found in or around water and a tortoise is found on dry land. A terrapin is a turtle that is found in brackish water. In general, look at the back legs. If they are webbed, call it a turtle. If they are stumpy (like an elephants) call it a tortoise. In the UK they apply terrapin to freshwater chelonians, tortoise to land chelonians, and turtle to oceanic dwellers. In Australia 'tortoise' is used for everything except sea 'turtles'. (There are no land chelonians native to Australia) Terrapin is also occasionally used as the name for any turtle that is to be eaten by humans in both the UK and USA. [endquote] <http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html#difference> Do you think there are social brownie points to be gained by always referring to "chelonians"? SignatureLes (BrE) > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Do you think there are social brownie points to be gained by always > referring to "chelonians"? It sounds like what we Americans would call an alumni association. Old Chelonians ought to have a school tie or something with which to recognize one another. After all, we can't have people going around asking each other "are you a Chelonian?" SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Roland Hutchinson filted: >> Do you think there are social brownie points to be gained by always >> referring to "chelonians"? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >After all, we can't have people going around asking each other "are you a >Chelonian?" You could place a wager on your glycemic onager....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? [...] >> <http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html#difference> >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Chelonians ought to have a school tie or something with which to > recognize one another. One would have to a find a solution to the problem of what happens to one's tie when one withdraws one's head into one's carapace. > After all, we can't have people going around asking each other "are you a > Chelonian?" SignatureLes (BrE) > After all, we can't have people going around asking each other "are you a > Chelonian?" You bet your sweet a.s I am. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> After all, we can't have people going around asking each other "are you a >> Chelonian?" > >You bet your sweet a.s I am. A Turtle Club card clearly allows the holder access to many other clubs, all with the same password. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE Leslie Danks filted: >Roland Hutchinson wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >One would have to a find a solution to the problem of what happens to one's >tie when one withdraws one's head into one's carapace. Rather than tying something around the neck, the appropriate insignia could be painted on one's plastron....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>>> BrE filted: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >points is due less to her teaching skills than to my ... what was I >saying? Which reminds me of "Nessa" (Ruth Jones) speaking of her pet "tor-toyse". SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> BrE filted: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > IME, it's normal in AmE to refer to both tortoises and turtles as "turtle". To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) have always heard the AmE distinction posted elsethread. Tortoises have stumpy legs (like elephants) and mostly walk on land. Turtles have flippers and swim. It would seem unusual and erroneous to call a Galapagos tortoise a "turtle", or a snapping turtle a "tortoise". > Which reminds me of "Nessa" (Ruth Jones) speaking of her pet > "tor-toyse". Tidy. That pronunciation of tortoise is common across all parts of the UK. I've never been able to tell how the division is organised between the two pronunciations. I don't think it's geography or class or education. SignatureDavid >> Which reminds me of "Nessa" (Ruth Jones) speaking of her pet >> "tor-toyse". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I've never been able to tell how the division is organised between the > two pronunciations. I don't think it's geography or class or education. It correlates with body mass index. Above 24.7, people say "tor-toyse". SignatureJames >>> Which reminds me of "Nessa" (Ruth Jones) speaking of her pet >>> "tor-toyse". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It correlates with body mass index. Above 24.7, people say "tor-toyse". Ed Stourton? He's a big lad, but he went to Eton. SignatureDavid > To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) have > always heard the AmE distinction posted elsethread. Tortoises have > stumpy legs (like elephants) and mostly walk on land. Turtles have > flippers and swim. It would seem unusual and erroneous to call a > Galapagos tortoise a "turtle", or a snapping turtle a "tortoise". What about box turtles? Brian SignatureDay 374 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >> To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) have >> always heard the AmE distinction posted elsethread. Tortoises have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >What about box turtles? Tortoises, apparently. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > >> To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) have > >> always heard the AmE distinction posted elsethread. Tortoises have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tortoises, apparently. Yes (well, sort of according to Wikipedia), but what does he call them? I do see "box tortoise" using Google, but "box turtle" is more common. Brian SignatureDay 375 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What about box turtles? Good point, not all turtles have flippers--there are many that walk on land, but they don't have the tortoise feet (turtle feet usually have webbing and long claws, both of which tortoises lack). It's really the legs and feet that make the difference between tortoises and turtles, though those differences do tend to make tortoises land dwelling and turtles sea dwelling. Upon research, I think there's a simple rule for my usage (which seems to be the prevailing American usage): if it's classified in the scientific family Testudinidae, it's a tortoise. Otherwise, it's not a tortoise. > > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > land, but they don't have the tortoise feet (turtle feet usually have > webbing and long claws, both of which tortoises lack). > Upon research, I think there's a simple rule for my usage (which seems > to be the prevailing American usage): if it's classified in the > scientific family Testudinidae, it's a tortoise. Otherwise, it's not > a tortoise. Box turtles are lumped with tortoises in the super-family Testudinoidea. Some people call them tortoises. Brian SignatureDay 375 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Box turtles are lumped with tortoises in the super-family > Testudinoidea. Some people call them tortoises. Yeah, that's why I went with "prevailing American view"; I don't doubt that there are some Americans who'd differ, and I don't claim to know how "turtle" and "tortoise" are distinguished elsewhere (aside from what I've read here and while searching the web for the distinction). At least one thing I'm sure of: to me, a box turtle is a turtle. >> > sjdevn...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > > To me,tortoises and turtles are different things--I (American) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Box turtles are lumped with tortoises in the super-family >Testudinoidea. Some people call them tortoises. Knowing that, I'll call the next one I keep, Dino. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > getting > squashed flat on highways....r Why did the Chicken cross the road? To prove to the armadillo{or possum} it could be done. Ray O'Hara filted: >> BrE filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Why did the Chicken cross the road? >To prove to the armadillo{or possum} it could be done. Armadillos: God's speed bumps....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > (No need to tell AUEers what the animal would be called, of course.) An armarie? ;-p >> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >> promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > (No need to tell AUEers what the animal would be called, of course.) An armoury? SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>> promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >An armoury? Here's me thinking "peccadillo", but I may be engaging in one. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >>>> promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Here's me thinking "peccadillo", but I may be engaging in one. As they say on the interwebs "whooosh". > Headline of the year so far? > > 'Scant cant can't hide Bernard-Henri Levy's Kant embarrassment ' > > <http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/scant-cant-cant-hide- > bernard-henri-levys-kant-embarrassment/story-e6frg6so-1225828475924> -- VB Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru Couldn't get the page up, but beware of peccaries: a sounder of the little blighters can tear you to bits if they think you look tasty. You need to shin up the nearest tree and wait, for as long as necessary: if there's an ants' nest or something in the tree, tough titty. I wonder what the certification would be for...anthrax, perhaps? Or simply certification of origin? SignatureMike. On Feb 9, 1:31 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: [re: peccaries] >...beware of peccaries: a sounder of the > little blighters can tear you to bits if they think you look tasty. make that smell tasty - they can't see very well at all. Best defense is to stay downwind. njg > Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 > promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [...] > I wonder what the certification would be for...anthrax, perhaps? Or > simply certification of origin? Yes, certification of origin. In précis, there's a putative paucity of prime peccary pelts. Pellet perforations are plentiful and pitiful portage-provision prevents prompt pick-up, promoting putrefaction. The proposed Porrittesque pigskin-provenance paperwork will perk up pelt prices, propelling peons into producing prime pelts and, pari passu, preserving Peruvian porcine populations in perpetuity. That's the plan, anyway. I can't see it working. Like the pelts, the plan is full of holes and has a slight whiff of corruption. (Biggest holes: Peruvian peccary-hunting is already sustainable and there' s no market for 'green' green pelts. The projects' own literature says so.) -- VB Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: Inhabitants of the Central African Republic have the 20th highest GHG emissions in the world, making them a greater threat to 'human survival'* than all Europeans except Luxembourgians and the Irish. *Brown, Hague, Jardine, Meacher, Mears, Monbiot, Obama, various bishops et al., 2009/2010. >> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: DEFRA has spent £211,764 >> promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in Peru [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > there' s no market for 'green' green pelts. The projects' own > literature says so.) That sounds commendably honest for a report on the spending of £211,764 of the taxpayer's money. Dare one hope that such an approach might become More General? (As Antrobus said of the snipping-off of somebody's OE tie when the somebody's large beard became the chosen roosting-place for a swarm of bees.) On the complications attendant upon gunshot wounds to South American mammalia, consider the irritation of neatly plugging a carpincho (like so many aquatic beasts, they test the sportsman by showing very little above the Plimsoll line), only to have the inconsiderate rodent immediately sink. I am far from clear whether this irritating post-mortem habit had anything to do with the Jesuits' deeming the animal, for fasting purposes, a fish. Sig: <VB Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: Inhabitants of the Central African Republic have the 20th highest GHG emissions in the world, making them a greater threat to 'human survival'* than all Europeans except Luxembourgians and the Irish. *Brown, Hague, Jardine, Meacher, Mears, Monbiot, Obama, various bishops et al., 2009/2010.> Ah, that's a relief: we can stop worrying about it now. --Lawson, various American oil-company shills, creationists et al., 2010. SignatureMike. [...] > On the complications attendant upon gunshot wounds to South American > mammalia, consider the irritation of neatly plugging a carpincho (like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > post-mortem habit had anything to do with the Jesuits' deeming the > animal, for fasting purposes, a fish. You shot a fish? Have you no shame? You'll be dropping hamsters from drones next. >> Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: Inhabitants of the Central >> African Republic have the 20th highest GHG emissions in the world, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Ah, that's a relief: we can stop worrying about it now. --Lawson, > various American oil-company shills, creationists et al., 2010. It depends on the meaning of 'it', dunnit. We can stop worrying about climate change threatening the survival of mankind. (Some of the more thoughtless alarmists even say that the planet itself is threatened.) -- VB Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: 'Today, more than ever before, science holds the key to our survival as a planet and our security and prosperity as a nation.' -- Barack Obama. (No, I don't know what he meant either. But it is a fact. Must be. Obama said it.) > [...] >> On the complications attendant upon gunshot wounds to South American [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You shot a fish? Have you no shame? You'll be dropping hamsters from > drones next. I know somebody who shot a pike with a revolver. I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the effects of being dropped from a great height. Perhaps it would be kinder to start by experimenting with an already dead one... (They do that with people, of course: the more serious crash-test dummies aren't dummies at all.) Jesuits, of course, follow the well-known rule that a cat walks away, a dog is injured, a Jesuit is killed, and a horse splashes. I wish I could remember the height, without which the information lacks much of its value. The old CIA hints and tips said one shouldn't rely on a mere fall unless it was from at least the fourth storey, so that's probably a fair starting-point for investigation. (I don't believe that a cassock makes a material difference. Certainly not for a horse.) Don't try this in public, children. [...] SignatureMike. On 16 Feb, 22:41, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > You shot a fish? Have you no shame? You'll be dropping hamsters from > > drones next. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Don't try this in public, children. Have you been dropping acid? -- VB > On 16 Feb, 22:41, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Have you been dropping acid? No: it's just the stimulating effect of reading your all-too-infrequent postings. Much appreciated. (Every word was true, by the way.) SignatureMike. On 17 Feb, 23:57, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Have you been dropping acid? > > No: it's just the stimulating effect of reading your all-too-infrequent > postings. Much appreciated. (Every word was true, by the way.) You old smoothie. And I'm not sure *every* word was true. Aren't pigs the more serious crash-test dummies? -- VB > On 17 Feb, 23:57, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You old smoothie. One speaks as one finds. > And I'm not sure *every* word was true. Aren't pigs the more serious > crash-test dummies? Real dead citizens _are_ used, some of the time at any rate. I understand they wear bags over their heads (Hell, I don't know about you, but I would, too), and leotards elsewhere. SignatureMike. >> On 17 Feb, 23:57, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > understand they wear bags over their heads (Hell, I don't know about > you, but I would, too), and leotards elsewhere. I find this difficult to believe. Can one carry a donor card that says "I want my body to be used for crash testing"? Or is the supply provided via some kind of Burke and Hare arrangement? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [...] >>> And I'm not sure *every* word was true. Aren't pigs the more serious >>> crash-test dummies? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "I want my body to be used for crash testing"? Or is the supply > provided via some kind of Burke and Hare arrangement? I don't know, but I rather suspect there _is_ a sort of very distantly B&H-related thing going on, in that people may not know what they're letting their mortal remains in for when they "leave them to science". Surely somebody in the group must know... SignatureMike. >> On 17 Feb, 23:57, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > understand they wear bags over their heads (Hell, I don't know about > you, but I would, too), and leotards elsewhere. Some weeks ago in Tirol, experiments carried out by the University for Anaesthesia and Intensive Medicine in Innsbruck using live pigs as avalanche victims were broken off after protests by animal protection agencies. The pigs were anaesthetised, hooked up to various monitors and then either buried inside a snow hole and allowed to suffocate, or buried up to their necks in snow and allowed to freeze to death. Ten pigs had already been killed by the time the experiments were discontinued: <http://www.dnews.de/nachrichten/panorama/166472/schweine-lebend-begrabenversuch- abgebrochen.html> <http://tinyurl.com/y88jb6w> SignatureLes (BrE) Proud to be human Mike Lyle: > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the > effects of being dropped from a great height. ... Jesuits, of course, > follow the well-known rule that a cat walks away, a dog is injured, > a Jesuit is killed, and a horse splashes. I wish I could remember > the height... "A thousand-yard mineshaft." I posted the quote here in 2002. "You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away. A rat would probably be killed, though it can fall safely from the eleventh story of a building; a man is killed, a horse splashes." As I said at the time, I would guess that this actually is known because some miners tried it with mice for fun. The quote is from the essay "On Being the Right Size", by J.B.S. Haldane; one place to find it is volume 2 of "The World of Mathematics", edited by James R. Newman (1956, Simon and Schuster). SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "We did not try to keep writing until msb@vex.net | things got full." --Dennis Ritchie My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader filted: >Mike Lyle: >> I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >volume 2 of "The World of Mathematics", edited by James R. Newman (1956, >Simon and Schuster). All in all, it's one of the least efficient ways known for killing rats....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Mike Lyle: > > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > probably be killed, though it can fall safely from the eleventh story > of a building; a man is killed, a horse splashes." If the rat can safely fall from the 11th story it can safely fall from any height. (being at terminal velocity already) At the limit: cats have fallen from New York skyscrapers and survived. The cat needs to achieve a stable 'flying attitude' though, (horizontal, with all paws and tail extended as much as possible) which may be impossible to achieve if it was thrown off. The cat will draw it's paws under it again for the landing. IIRC survivability is better than 50% (a systematic study on it by a New York veterinarian exists) And while we are at it: humans have survived jumps without parachute, (mostly in WW II) in very lucky cases. (hitting a pine tree, deep snow, etc.) Jan > > Mike Lyle: > > > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > IIRC survivability is better than 50% > (a systematic study on it by a New York veterinarian exists) The fact that the cat needs to achieve a stable flying attitude also lead to the conclusion that cats dropped from some intermediate height were more likely to die than cats dropped from a higher height. I can't recall the exact numbers, but it was something along the lines of "cats dropped from 6-10 stories usually die, but cats dropped from 10+ stories often live". > > > Mike Lyle: > > > > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > of "cats dropped from 6-10 stories usually die, but cats dropped from > 10+ stories often live". A standard ref seems to be: ===== J Feline Med Surg. 2004 Oct;6(5):305-12. Feline high-rise syndrome: 119 cases (1998-2001). Vnuk D, Pirki? B, Matici? D, Radisi? B, Stejskal M, Babi? T, Kreszinger M, Lemo N. Clinic of Surgery, Orthopaedics and Ophthalmology, Veterinary Faculty, University of Zagreb, Heinzelova 55, 10000 Zagreb, Croatia. dvnuk@vef.hr High-rise syndrome was diagnosed in 119 cats over a 4-year period. 59.6% of cats were younger than one year, and the average height of the fall was four stories. High-rise syndrome was more frequent during the warmer period of the year. 96.5% of the presented cats, survived after the fall. 46.2% of cats had fractured limbs; 38.5% of fractures were of the forelimb, 61.5% of the hindlimb. The tibia was fractured most often (36.4%), followed by the femur (23.6%). 78.6% of femoral fractures were distal. The mean age of patients with femoral fractures was 9.1 months, and with tibial fractures 29.2 months. Thoracic trauma was diagnosed in 33.6% of cats. Pneumothorax was diagnosed in 20% of cats, and pulmonary contusions in 13.4%. Falls from the seventh or higher stories, are associated with more severe injuries and with a higher incidence of thoracic trauma. ==== but see also <http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1143/do-cats-always-land-unhar med-on-their-feet-no-matter-how-far-they-fall> The ability to make long jumps out of trees may have been advantageous at some stage in feline evolution, Jan Jan Lodder: > > cats have fallen from New York skyscrapers and survived. > > The cat needs to achieve a stable 'flying attitude' though... S.J.: > The fact that the cat needs to achieve a stable flying attitude > also lead Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly. > to the conclusion that cats dropped from some intermediate height > were more likely to die than cats dropped from a higher height. A false conclusion, it came out later, because only those taken to a vet had been counted. Many of the ones that fell farther were clearly beyond any chance of survival. SignatureMark Brader | "Whose tracks these are I think I know; Toronto | The railroad has gone bankrupt, though..." msb@vex.net | --Michael Wares (after Frost) > Jan Lodder: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly. Now I'm plumb embarrassed. S.J.: >>> The fact that the cat needs to achieve a stable flying attitude >>> also lead... Mark Brader: >> Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly. S.J.: > Now I'm plumb embarrassed. Paging R.H. Drainy! SignatureMark Brader | "He's suffering from Politician's Logic." Toronto | "Something must be done, this is something, therefore msb@vex.net | we must do it." -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER Mark Brader filted: >S.J.: >>>> The fact that the cat needs to achieve a stable flying attitude [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Paging R.H. Drainy! I'm taking part of this thread as my new .sig....r Signature"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle > Jan Lodder: >> > cats have fallen from New York skyscrapers and survived. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly. Unless it's sufficiently heavy that the plane can't take off, I don't see any reason that it couldn't. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There is something fascinating 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |about science. One gets such Palo Alto, CA 94304 |wholesale returns of conjecture out |of such a trifling investment of kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |fact. (650)857-7572 | Mark Twain http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Mike Lyle: >> > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If the rat can safely fall from the 11th story it can safely fall > from any height. (being at terminal velocity already) Are you sure a rat's at terminal velocity at 100 feet? According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity it goes up by the square root of mass and down by the square root of projected area, but I haven't done the mass to figure out what that would mean for a rat compared to a human. The rule of thumb for skydivers seems to be that you hit terminal velocity in 12-15 seconds, which is around 125-150 m/s (and that's "in free-fall position", which probably has more drag than if you just drop a dead body). 100 feet only gets you about 1.8 seconds or a bit less than 18 m/s. It wouldn't surprise me if the rat was still accelerating. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Voting in the House of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Representatives is done by means of a Palo Alto, CA 94304 |little plastic card with a magnetic |strip on the back--like a VISA card, kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |but with no, that is, absolutely (650)857-7572 |*no*, spending limit. | P.J. O'Rourke http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>> Mike Lyle: >>> > I wonder if hamsters are too big to enjoy mousey immunity from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > projected area, but I haven't done the mass to figure out what that > would mean for a rat compared to a human. Plugging in some numbers, for an 8 oz rat with a splat area of 2 inches by 8 inches, Google gives a figure of 22 kg/m^2. For a 175lb human with an area of 5ft by 18 inches (assuming some droop), it's 114 kg/m^2. The proportionality would be the square root of the ratio, or about 2.3. > The rule of thumb for skydivers seems to be that you hit terminal > velocity in 12-15 seconds, which is around 125-150 m/s (and that's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It wouldn't surprise me if the rat was still accelerating. So if I haven't completely screwed up the math (always a possibility), a rat would have to get up to at least about 54 m/s, which would take about five and a half seconds and which would require a fall of about 48 stories. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There are two types of people - 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |those who are one of the two types Palo Alto, CA 94304 |of people, and those who are not. | Leigh Blue Caldwell kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ <snip> >So if I haven't completely screwed up the math (always a possibility), >a rat would have to get up to at least about 54 m/s, which would take >about five and a half seconds and which would require a fall of about >48 stories. By some stage in that fall he would be going "faster than a rat's a.s", oxymoronic as it sounds. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE [carpincho leather has little marks where the spines used to be, or else those gloves were made of endangered porcupine] > Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: 'Today, more than ever > before, science holds the key to our survival as a planet and our > security and prosperity as a nation.' -- Barack Obama. (No, I don't > know what he meant either. But it is a fact. Must be. Obama said > it.) "We're so far down the slope by now that our only hope is cold fusion or friendly Aliens, and I don't mean the Chinese," duh. > > Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: 'Today, more than ever > > before, science holds the key to our survival as a planet and our [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "We're so far down the slope by now that our only hope is cold fusion > or friendly Aliens, and I don't mean the Chinese," duh. I chanced upon an article in the June 1958 edition of _Popular Science_ today. It advocated nuking the ionosphere to control regional climates and releasing burning oil slicks in the Doldrums to prevent the formation of hurricanes. A fascinating snapshot of a vanished world of scientific and technological optimism - of faith in mankind's benevolent omnipotence. Bob the Geo-engineeer. Can we fix it? Yes, we can! Actually, not quite. The optimism was balanced by Cold War terror. What if the Russkies get their hands on this stuff before we do? 'An enemy able to change our weather could reduce us, even without a war, to a second-rate nation.' A fascinating read, available in full at Google Books. 'Weather as a Weapon' by Orville and Lagemann. -- VB 'Alternative energy is the next tidal wave in tech innovation. If we miss it, we will not only weaken our economy and harm our national security - we will turn ourselves into a second-rate nation. And as I sat there listening to the experts speak, all I could think was, we're doomed.' - Newsweek, 2010 >> > Fascinating Fact at the Foot of the Page: 'Today, more than ever >> > before, science holds the key to our survival as a planet and our [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >enemy able to change our weather could reduce us, even without a war, >to a second-rate nation.' Whereas in reality it took only 12 years of Gordon Brown. >A fascinating read, available in full at Google Books. 'Weather as a >Weapon' by Orville and Lagemann. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > Headline of the year so far? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > £211,764 promoting pilot programmes for peccary-pelt certification in > Peru Your PS seems to have aroused an interest in peccaries among the good participants of this group, while the subject of the brilliant literary hoax has been unfairly ignored. To recompense in some small measure, I have become a Facebook fan of Jean-Baptiste Botul. That's where I found this poster of BHL: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30749823&id=1041919879&op=1&view=all&subj= 58702927670&aid=-1&oid=58702927670#!/photo.php?pid=307004&id=1684928387&op=1&vie w=all&subj=58702927670&aid=-1&oid=58702927670&fbid=1153091002517 http://tinyurl.com/yj3y4fe SignatureJames >> Headline of the year so far? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30749823&id=1041919879&op=1&view=all&subj= 58702927670&aid=-1&oid=58702927670#!/photo.php?pid=307004&id=1684928387&op=1&vie w=all&subj=58702927670&aid=-1&oid=58702927670&fbid=1153091002517 > http://tinyurl.com/yj3y4fe Magnifique! I've joined, too. I've also become a fan of Nat Tate. Having followed the thread, I too was a little disappointed that Botul had been pushed aside by peccaries, which my brain persisted in rendering as pessaries until Dave revealed that they are javelinas, the wild pigs we encountered when visiting Tucson. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> Headline of the year so far? >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > rendering as pessaries until Dave revealed that they are javelinas, > the wild pigs we encountered when visiting Tucson. I've read some of the online news stories about this. The one in the Nouvel Observateur is particularly good: http://bibliobs.nouvelobs.com/20100208/17560/bhl-en-flagrant-delire-laffaire-botul I'll single out two points in it: 1. There is wonderful irony in the fact that Lévy attacks Kant as "le philosophe sans corps et sans vie par excellence", citing in support a book by a philosopher who turns out to be even more "sans corps et sans vie". 2. Lévy is universally known as BHL, which gives rise to a wonderful adjective. This book about Kant is described as "le « livre-programme » de la pensée béhachélienne". Did that come before "elleffescent"? SignatureJames > >> Headline of the year so far? > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > rendering as pessaries until Dave revealed that they are javelinas, the > wild pigs we encountered when visiting Tucson. Obaue: Would the Arizonans like to comment on "peccary" and "javelina" in AzE? Is one obviously more common than the other? -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman filted: >Obaue: Would the Arizonans like to comment on "peccary" and "javelina" >in AzE? Is one obviously more common than the other? "Javelina", by a substantial margin...the only time we even *use* the word "peccary" is when some outlander asks us what a javelina is....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Jerry Friedman filted: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "Javelina", by a substantial margin...the only time we even *use* the word > "peccary" is when some outlander asks us what a javelina is....r And referring to a silly Frank Zappa song (sorry for the redundancy). But thanks, I suspected that but I wasn't sure. -- Jerry Friedman has never seen a javelina in the wild. Jerry Friedman filted: >> Jerry Friedman filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >But thanks, I suspected that but I wasn't sure. I hadn't seen one in the wild until about twelve years ago (only in films and at the zoo), when I suddenly came upon an entire family of them running up a hillside in New Mexico...I'm told they're dead common; my chiropractor says she feeds them....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Jerry Friedman filted: >>Jerry Friedman has never seen a javelina in the wild. > >I hadn't seen one in the wild until about twelve years ago (only in films and at >the zoo), when I suddenly came upon an entire family of them running up a >hillside in New Mexico...I'm told they're dead common; my chiropractor says she >feeds them....r I'd only do that if I wanted to get rid of a garden. Javelina are voracious plant eaters, and even eat the roots of prickly pear cactuses (cacti?). I sometimes see them scrounging in picnic areas of city parks near the edge of town. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >Jerry Friedman filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >"Javelina", by a substantial margin...the only time we even *use* the word >"peccary" is when some outlander asks us what a javelina is....r I'll confirm that.... Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Hatunen wrote on Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:18:25 -0700: >> Jerry Friedman filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> *use* the word "peccary" is when some outlander asks us what >> a javelina is....r > I'll confirm that.... That may well be true of Arizona but, to my surprise, there are about the same number of hits produced by Google.for "javelina" as for "peccary" . SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not James Silverton filted: > Hatunen wrote on Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:18:25 -0700: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >the same number of hits produced by Google.for "javelina" as for >"peccary" . The javelina is specifically the *collared" peccary...I wouldn't be surprised if the more general term is in wider distribution because of all the other sorts that exist in places outside the Sonoran desert....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Headline of the year so far? > > 'Scant cant can't hide Bernard-Henri Levy's Kant embarrassment ' > > <http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/scant-cant-cant-hide- > bernard-henri-levys-kant-embarrassment/story-e6frg6so-1225828475924> An update on this story. It has been suggested that Lévy might not have been fooled by the book about Kant's sex life if he had read other works by Jean-Baptiste Botul, the non-existent philosopher (1896-1947). One of Botul's famous assertions is "La valise à roulettes est une utopie". http://tinyurl.com/y8om8y5 SignatureJames > An update on this story. It has been suggested that Lévy might not have > been fooled by the book about Kant's sex life if he had read other works > by Jean-Baptiste Botul, the non-existent philosopher (1896-1947). One of > Botul's famous assertions is "La valise à roulettes est une utopie". > > http://tinyurl.com/y8om8y5 Have you noticed that Kant's shadow is sticking its tongue out? -- VB >> An update on this story. It has been suggested that Lévy might not >> have been fooled by the book about Kant's sex life if he had read [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have you noticed that Kant's shadow is sticking its tongue out? Another little detail that BHL missed, along with the failure to see anything suspicious in this: "Les philosophes ont inventé un moyen extraordinaire de se reproduire: ils ne pénètrent pas, ils se retirent. Ce retrait porte un nom: la mélancolie." SignatureJames > Another little detail that BHL missed, along with the failure to see > anything suspicious in this: > > "Les philosophes ont inventé un moyen extraordinaire de se reproduire: > ils ne pénètrent pas, ils se retirent. Ce retrait porte un nom: la > mélancolie." Ceci n'est pas une cruche. <http://www.amazon.co.uk/BHL-Masquerade-Crystal-Jug-Litre/dp/ B0025KVP5W> -- VB >> Another little detail that BHL missed, along with the failure to see >> anything suspicious in this: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > <http://www.amazon.co.uk/BHL-Masquerade-Crystal-Jug-Litre/dp/ > B0025KVP5W> The Masquerade bit was particularly nice. Last night I ordered "La Vie Sexuelle d'Immanuel Kant". SignatureJames ... > Another little detail that BHL missed, along with the failure to see > anything suspicious in this: > > "Les philosophes ont inventé un moyen extraordinaire de se reproduire: > ils ne pénètrent pas, ils se retirent. Ce retrait porte un nom: la > mélancolie." "Nom" or "soleil noir"? -- Jerry Friedman Vinny Burgoo filted: >> An update on this story. It has been suggested that L=E9vy might not have >> been fooled by the book about Kant's sex life if he had read other works >> by Jean-Baptiste Botul, the non-existent philosopher (1896-1947). One of >> Botul's famous assertions is "La valise =E0 roulettes est une utopie". >> >> http://tinyurl.com/y8om8y5 "A suitcase on wheels is really nowhere"?... >Have you noticed that Kant's shadow is sticking its tongue out? Probably salivating to get at that brie...looks pretty good to me too....r Signature"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle |
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