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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010"Theater" vs. "Theatre" (spelling)
As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to show Ingmar Bergman films from those that are more likely to show Arnold Schwarzenegger films, the latter using the spelling "theater." (Though not all "fine arts" movie houses use the spelling "theatre".) The "Landmark Theatre" chain is an example of this: http://www.landmarktheatres.com/ Any thoughts on this usage? P.S. At least one of the Landmark Theatres -- the Shattuck Cinema in Berkeley, California -- now has COMFY CHAIRS! I suspect this upgrade will be coming to some of the others, too: === begin quoted text === In 2009, the Shattuck Cinemas completed a comprehensive remodel, with new spacious and luxurious theatre seating in all auditoriums, new lighting design, carpets and paint. Two auditoriums have been transformed into Landmark’s exclusive Screening Lounge™, with unique seating options of home-style couches, loveseats, chairs and ottomans, from the LoveSac® company. Upgrades in the lobby and concession area were included in the extensive makeover.... === end quoted text === Was just there yesterday -- the beanbag chairs down front can easily accommodate two people apiece. The other comfy chairs really are comfortable. -- Brett (in Berkeley, California, USA) http://www.electoralmaps.org/ Pictorial election results for every U.S. Presidential Election from George Washington to Barack Obama. > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Pictorial election results for every U.S. Presidential Election from > George Washington to Barack Obama. The British spelling is more refined, doncha know. Stage theatres and art theatres, but entertainment theaters. >> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" >> seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >The British spelling is more refined, doncha know. Stage theatres and >art theatres, but entertainment theaters. Any difference between "theater" and "theatre" in this area is purely the developer's idea of what to put on the sign. We have both "theaters" and "theatres" that show Adam Sandler movies. Our one "art house" is the Enzian Theater. Glancing at the list of places that put on live performances, they are all "theatres" if they have the word in their name. However, the newspaper columnist that reviews plays provides "theater reviews".  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > >> seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > "theaters" and "theatres" that show Adam Sandler movies. Our one "art > house" is the Enzian Theater. 'Round here we also have "shoppes" and "shops", not to mention "emporiums" (not "emporia"!) and even a few "centres". Some people just seem to think it looks more classy that way. A local grocery chain takes the cake with their "Olde World Shoppe", where they sell, among other things, cakes. I don't _think_ they put an "e" at the end of "world", but I'm not sure...I've always called it the "oldy worldy shoppy". Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- "I don't care if I never grow old: gonna flame, gonna burn, take one quick turn, and be gone like James Dean" -- Greg Brown > 'Round here we also have "shoppes" and "shops", not to mention > "emporiums" (not "emporia"!) and even a few "centres". Some people just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "e" at the end of "world", but I'm not sure...I've always called it the > "oldy worldy shoppy". Not "ye oldy worldy shoppy"? SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > The British spelling is more refined, doncha know. Stage theatres and > art theatres, but entertainment theaters. Yeah, fine, triffic. Anyway, here in the UK a theatre is somewhere you go to see actors performing in a play; movies are shown in cinemas. DC -- >> > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" >> > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >Yeah, fine, triffic. Anyway, here in the UK a theatre is somewhere you >go to see actors performing in a play; movies are shown in cinemas. Except at: Stoke-on-Trent Film Theatre Glasgow Film Theatre Queen's Film Theatre, Belfast Leiston Film Theatre [Suffolk] Reading Film Theatre Stafford Film Theatre Whitgift Film Theatre, Grimsby etc. The National Film Theatre in London now appears to be called BFI Southbank. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >> > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling > "theatre" >> > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > The National Film Theatre in London now appears to be called BFI > Southbank. Well, apart from them, obviously. -- >>> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" >>> seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Yeah, fine, triffic. Anyway, here in the UK a theatre is somewhere you > go to see actors performing in a play; movies are shown in cinemas. Same for me in Australia, although I think the US influence is seeing "theatre" become more common for "movies" (or "films" as we used to call them before the US influence). Even though we have the US influence for "theatre" vs "cinema", we haven't adopted their spelling yet. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. On 11 Feb 2010, Django Cat wrote > Anyway, here in the UK a theatre is somewhere you go to see > actors performing in a play; movies are shown in cinemas. Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England I quickly discovered that calling them "movies" was considered a bit pretentious -- film-school-wannabes watched movies, while normal people went to the pictures to see a film. This came a quite a surprise to me, as my usage in Canada had been the reverse -- artsy-fartsy types watched films; me and the guys went to the movies. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 11 Feb 2010, Django Cat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pretentious -- film-school-wannabes watched movies, while normal > people went to the pictures to see a film. You're probably right there, Harvey. Where'd I put my latte frappuccino and Observer colour supplement? DC -- On 12 Feb 2010, Django Cat wrote >> On 11 Feb 2010, Django Cat wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You're probably right there, Harvey. Where'd I put my latte > frappuccino and Observer colour supplement? Ah, yes -- the bolour supplement, sboolboys who suffered traumas, and silly bunts, wot? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England I quickly > discovered that calling them "movies" was considered a bit [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the reverse -- artsy-fartsy types watched films; me and the guys > went to the movies. When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression that Brits viewed flicks. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England I quickly >> discovered that calling them "movies" was considered a bit [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression that >Brits viewed flicks. So did American university students. I first heard the usage in 1955 in Williamstown, Massachusetts. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > >> Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England I quickly > >> discovered that calling them "movies" was considered a bit [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So did American university students. That would be university students in America, not students at American University? > I first heard the usage in > 1955 in Williamstown, Massachusetts. I was in Boston and when we went to a "Carry On" or an Alec Guinness movie we liked to say we were going to a flick. That's the only time we used the word. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email John wrote on 13 Feb 2010 19:39:19 GMT: > >>> Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England > >>> I quickly discovered that calling them "movies" was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> So did American university students. > That would be university students in America, not students at > American University? >> I first heard the usage in >> 1955 in Williamstown, Massachusetts. > I was in Boston and when we went to a "Carry On" or an Alec > Guinness movie we liked to say we were going to a flick. > That's the only time we used the word. At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a flick". There were a number of other words in common use that struck a recent arrival from Britain as strange or antiquated, like haberdasher, chap, "a la mode" for "with ice-cream" and "pop" for soda. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not >At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a >flick". There were a number of other words in common use that struck a >recent arrival from Britain as strange or antiquated, like haberdasher, >chap, "a la mode" for "with ice-cream" and "pop" for soda. "Catch a flick" was the cool thing to say in my youf. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a >flick". There were a number of other words in common use that struck a >recent arrival from Britain as strange or antiquated, like haberdasher, >chap, "a la mode" for "with ice-cream" and "pop" for soda. The last is, of course, a regionalism. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * James Silverton: >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a >> flick". There were a number of other words in common use that struck a >> recent arrival from Britain as strange or antiquated, like haberdasher, >> chap, "a la mode" for "with ice-cream" and "pop" for soda. Dave Hatunen: > The last is, of course, a regionalism. No, "soda" for "pop" is a regionalism. :-) SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "I conducted a Usenet poll ... on this subject ... msb@vex.net | Laura is single. By a 2-1 margin." --Ken Perlow > James Silverton: > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No, "soda" for "pop" is a regionalism. :-) No, "soda" and "pop" for "soft drink" are regionalisms. SignatureJohn Varela John Varela filted: >> James Silverton: >> >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >No, "soda" and "pop" for "soft drink" are regionalisms. No, "soft drink" is marketing-speak....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > John Varela filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > No, "soft drink" is marketing-speak....r I take "soft drink" to be a broader category: pretty much anything that isn't "hard liquor" except for things like water and milk. Lemonade, iced tea, and juice are all "soft drinks", but not "soda" or "pop". MWCD11 adds "usually carbonated". It also dates it to ca. 1880 (as does the OED), which sounds a bit early for "marketing speak". The 1897 _American Encyclopædic Dictionary_ defines it as "any drink which is intended to refresh, but contains no alcohol or intoxicating constituent". A bit earlier, in 1860, I see "soft drink, such as ale and porter" contrasted with whisky. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |To express oneself 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |In seventeen syllables Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Is very diffic | Tony Finch kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> John Varela filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Lemonade, iced tea, and juice are all "soft drinks", but not "soda" or >"pop". No way. >MWCD11 adds "usually carbonated". It also dates it to >ca. 1880 (as does the OED), which sounds a bit early for "marketing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >constituent". A bit earlier, in 1860, I see "soft drink, such as ale >and porter" contrasted with whisky. Soft drinks are those drinks that are normally dispensed in a soft drinks machine, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Seven-Up, Canada Dry, Kickapoo Joy Juice and few more. They do not, when I've seen the term, include any of the juice drinks, lemonade included. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>I take "soft drink" to be a broader category: pretty much anything >>that isn't "hard liquor" except for things like water and milk. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Juice and few more. They do not, when I've seen the term, include > any of the juice drinks, lemonade included. Whereas I would have used exactly the same argument and pointed out that soft drinks machines, around here at least, nearly always include at least lemonade and some sort of flavored iced tea and often include things like a non-carbonated fruit punch (e.g., Hawaiian Punch). SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It's gotten to the point where the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |only place you can get work done is Palo Alto, CA 94304 |at home, because no one bugs you, |and the best place to entertain kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |yourself is at work, because the (650)857-7572 |Internet connections are faster. | Scott Adams http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Whereas I would have used exactly the same argument and pointed out > that soft drinks machines, around here at least, nearly always include > at least lemonade and some sort of flavored iced tea and often include > things like a non-carbonated fruit punch (e.g., Hawaiian Punch). That's a relatively recent phenomenon, where "recent" means "within the last several decades". SignatureJohn Varela Evan Kirshenbaum: > Whereas I would have used exactly the same argument and pointed out > that soft drinks machines, around here at least, nearly always include > at least lemonade and some sort of flavored iced tea and often include > things like a non-carbonated fruit punch (e.g., Hawaiian Punch). What's a "soft drinks machine"? I mean, *you're* calling it that and then reasoning from this fact, but it's not as if it's labeled as one. As far as I'm concerned, what you call the machine is determined by the large label for the major-brand drink it contains -- in other words, typically it's either a Coke machine or a Pepsi machine, no matter what other beverages it may happen to contain. SignatureMark Brader | "I do not want to give the impression I spend all Toronto | my time on the Internet, but in the right hands msb@vex.net | it is a wondrous tool, and in the wrong hands | it is an even better one." -- Cecil Adams My text in this article is in the public domain. >Evan Kirshenbaum: >> Whereas I would have used exactly the same argument and pointed out [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >typically it's either a Coke machine or a Pepsi machine, no matter what >other beverages it may happen to contain. Not in Europe. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>I take "soft drink" to be a broader category: pretty much anything >>>that isn't "hard liquor" except for things like water and milk. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >at least lemonade and some sort of flavored iced tea and often include >things like a non-carbonated fruit punch (e.g., Hawaiian Punch). I'll give you Hawaiian Punch as a soft drink, but not, IMO, lemonade or flavoured ice tea. I can't explain my reasoning on this. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > Soft drinks are those drinks that are normally dispensed in a soft > drinks machine, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Seven-Up, Canada Dry, Kickapoo Joy > Juice and few more. They do not, when I've seen the term, include any > of the juice drinks, lemonade included. Absolutely. Your list omits RC Cola and Nehi Orange. SignatureJohn Varela >> Soft drinks are those drinks that are normally dispensed in a soft >> drinks machine, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Seven-Up, Canada Dry, Kickapoo Joy >> Juice and few more. They do not, when I've seen the term, include any >> of the juice drinks, lemonade included. > >Absolutely. Your list omits RC Cola and Nehi Orange. Those two, too. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > > James Silverton: > > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > No, "soda" and "pop" for "soft drink" are regionalisms. Not really. "Soda" covers America fully, and refers solely to carbonated beverages--it's in the minority in parts of the Midwest, but still in use and well understood. There's no part of the country where it doesn't enjoy some currency. Calling it regional is a mistake. "Soft drink" varies widely, meaning only carbonated drinks in some areas but in others referring to any non-alcoholic drink. It's a national term, but a regional synonym for "soda" or "pop". "Pop" is regionally limited, and will cause confusion in some parts of the US. "Coke" outside of the South is used only for Coca-Cola, but regionally can mean any soda/soft drink/pop. "Tonic" is a (fading) Boston and Maine localism. I've heard claims that "dope" is a North Carolina localism for the same, but I was born in North Carolina and my parents live there and I've never heard it; perhaps it is limited to certain parts of the state, or is outdated. >> > James Silverton: >> > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > carbonated beverages--it's in the minority in parts of the Midwest, > but still in use and well understood. When I grew up in Chicago in the '70s, the word would have been well understood to refer to a drink with flavored syrup, carbonated water, and ice cream. My dad tells the story of being on a business trip to Boston, ordering a "chocolate soda" and being very confused when the waitress brought him a can of Yoo-Hoo[1]. There was "cream soda", but I think we rationalized that as tasting more "ice-cream-y". We knew "soda-pop" as an old-fashioned word for "pop", and would probably have figured "soda" out from that. I suspect it's better understood now. [1] In Boston, the drink he wanted is, I believe, a "frappe". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If I am ever forced to make a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |choice between learning and using Palo Alto, CA 94304 |win32, or leaving the computer |industry, let me just say it was kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |nice knowing all of you. :-) (650)857-7572 | Randal Schwartz http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > >> > James Silverton: > >> > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > "soda-pop" as an old-fashioned word for "pop", and would probably have > figured "soda" out from that. I suspect it's better understood now. Right. A "soda' is what you get at the ice cream parlor. > [1] In Boston, the drink he wanted is, I believe, a "frappe". A Boston frappe is what elsewhere is called a milkshake. SignatureJohn Varela > "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.com> writes: > >> > James Silverton: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > [1] In Boston, the drink he wanted is, I believe, a "frappe". A frappe has no carbonated water--it's what most of the US calls a "milk shake", just milk + ice cream + flavor. 20+ years ago, you would very occasionally hear "cabinet" used, too (that's a Rhode Island influence), but it seems to have died out almost completely in Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if you still hear it in RI, though. In Boston, syrup + carbonated water + ice cream or a soda/pop/soft drink + ice cream is an ice cream soda or (especially if the liquid is root beer) a float. Elsewhere I've heard "(color) cow" variations, like "black cow" for a root beer float, "white cow" for Sprite+vanilla ice cream, etc, but they're not much used in New England that I can remember. There was a place in Pittsburgh that served a "Boston cooler" made of ginger beer + ice cream, but that's not something I ever heard of in Boston. Unlike a normal ice cream soda, they completely blended the ice cream into the ginger beer. >>> > James Silverton: >>> > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >[1] In Boston, the drink he wanted is, I believe, a "frappe". "Pop", for a soft drink, is a regional Americanism, I believe. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > "Pop", for a soft drink, is a regional Americanism, I believe. Here's the old map. Unfortunately it's from 2003, so doubtlessly things have changed in the intervening years. <http://www.popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html> Brian SignatureDay 381 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >> "Pop", for a soft drink, is a regional Americanism, I believe. > >Here's the old map. Unfortunately it's from 2003, so doubtlessly things >have changed in the intervening years. > ><http://www.popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html> Since "pop" is largely confined to states in the Flyover Zone, it is no wonder I have seldom heard it. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> James Silverton: >>>>> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Carolina and my parents live there and I've never heard it; perhaps > it is limited to certain parts of the state, or is outdated. Here y' go: http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/308-the-pop-vs-soda-map/ > Not really. "Soda" covers America fully, and refers solely to > carbonated beverages--it's in the minority in parts of the Midwest, > but still in use and well understood. There's no part of the country > where it doesn't enjoy some currency. Calling it regional is a > mistake. I have never used either "soda" or "pop" and WIWL never heard either of the terms, so I dispute the "There's no part of the country..." claim. > "Soft drink" varies widely, meaning only carbonated drinks in some > areas but in others referring to any non-alcoholic drink. It's a > national term, but a regional synonym for "soda" or "pop". See my response to Evan. > "Pop" is regionally limited, and will cause confusion in some parts of > the US. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > live there and I've never heard it; perhaps it is limited to certain > parts of the state, or is outdated. In Atlanta they say "Co-Cola" for Coca-Cola. I had heard of that but didn't believe it until I actually heard an Atlantan say it. SignatureJohn Varela John Varela filted: >In Atlanta they say "Co-Cola" for Coca-Cola. I had heard of that but >didn't believe it until I actually heard an Atlantan say it. It's actually more like "Co?Cola", where the ? is a rare AmE glottal stop, isn't it?...in Japanese, it'd be represented by a "chiisai tsu" which is transliterated in English by doubling the following consonant....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > John Varela filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it?...in Japanese, it'd be represented by a "chiisai tsu" which is > transliterated in English by doubling the following consonant....r Almost 60 years ago I attended a boarding school in southern Tennessee; there were a half-dozen or more boys from Atlanta and I never noticed any of them saying "Co-Cola". It was not until a few years ago, when I was doing some genealogical research, that I discovered some second cousins from Atlanta living elsewhere in Virginia and in Maryland. We met one day for lunch and I heard one of them -- a college professor, widow of the college president, and a long time resident of the Shenandoah Valley -- say "Co-Cola". That's the only time I've heard it said by a native Atlantan. So I'm unable to comment on glottal stops in Atlanta. However, at that same boarding school there was a boy from Pittsburgh who said "bottle" with a golttal stop, "bo'le". And in college I had a roommate from Brooklyn who did the same with "bottle" and similar words in -tle. SignatureJohn Varela > John Varela filted: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it?...in Japanese, it'd be represented by a "chiisai tsu" which is > transliterated in English by doubling the following consonant....r Does that mean it's geminated? -- Jerry Friedman >> James Silverton: >> >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >No, "soda" and "pop" for "soft drink" are regionalisms. Don't forget parts of the South where "coke" is a regionalim for any carbonated soft drink. Bubba: "Gimme a coke." Barkeep: "What kind?" Bubba: "Make it a Dr Pepper." Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > James Silverton: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > No, "soda" for "pop" is a regionalism. :-) Well said. -- Jerry Friedman > James Silverton: > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No, "soda" for "pop" is a regionalism. :-) "Soda pop," anyone? Apropos (Yo, Chuck) of flicks -- At Dartmouth, same era as James (one movie house in town, with one screen): "Let's flick out." I have no recollection of ever hearing it after my departure from Hanover. SignatureBob Lieblich Be careful about writing FLICK in all-caps Robert Lieblich filted: >Apropos (Yo, Chuck) of flicks -- At Dartmouth, same era as James (one >movie house in town, with one screen): "Let's flick out." I have no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Bob Lieblich >Be careful about writing FLICK in all-caps Quite right...for this very reason, the very use of the word was prohibited by the Comics Code Authority, lest the ink run together and treat fans of Archie and Jughead to a word they didn't cover in Sunday School...in a crime comic, you couldn't even use it to describe the act of knocking ashes off the end of a burning cigarette....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Robert Lieblich filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > describe the act of knocking ashes off the end of a burning > cigarette....r I obtained this personalized plate in 1970 or so. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/92/218527693_790933cd71_o.jpg It's still on a 1967 MGB GT parked behind the house, where it awaits restoration or a lightning strike - the latter more likely to occur first. SignatureFrank ess > > James Silverton: > > >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > "Soda pop," anyone? "Soda pop" is both unambiguous and probably unnatural everywhere, unless there's some region I'm missing where it still has currency. Having lived in the east, south, midwest, and west, I still maintain that "soda" is the closest thing to a still-used national term for carbonated sweet beverages, that "soft drink" is probably second, and that both "pop" and "Coke" in this sense are very clearly regionalisms and likely to meet blank stares in pretty large parts of the US. Most of the online "pop vs. soda" maps appear to bear that out, too; "soda" and "soft drink" are in a minority in some parts of the country, but still in regular currency, while "pop" and "coke" have large blank areas on the maps outside of their home zones. >> James Silverton: >> >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >movie house in town, with one screen): "Let's flick out." I have no >recollection of ever hearing it after my departure from Hanover. Yo, Blair, I mean Bob, was this in the "Let's pig out" era? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > >> James Silverton: > >> >> At Cornell in the late 50s, I remember people saying "Let's take in a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yo, Blair, I mean Bob, was this in the "Let's pig out" era? I honestly don't remember. I've known and used "pig out" for many, many years, but I don't think I knew it in high school, and my memory doesn't fetch it up for college, but of course you can't trust memory with something like this. Dartmouth's college slang was just a bit different from that of most other undergraduate institutions. What's "econ" in most places was "eccy" at Dartmouth. (In retrospect, our gay economics instructor should have been "eccy homo," but I never encountered it.) When I was a student there, there was no grade of C. You could get a C plus or a C minus, but not a C. (And your GPA could go as high as 5, because a c plus was 3 and a C minus was 2.) In the vernacular, those two grades were "hook plus" and "hook minus." If those were heard elsewhere, it wasn't by me. I left Dartmouth after my sophomore year. The language barrier was but a minor contributor to my decision. SignatureBob Lieblich Go, Indians! <snip> >You could get a C plus or a >C minus, but not a C. (And your GPA could go as high as 5, because a c >plus was 3 and a C minus was 2.) In the vernacular [of Dartmouth College], those two grades >were "hook plus" and "hook minus." If those were heard elsewhere, it >wasn't by me. What a learning resource AUE is. I had always thought that "a hook" and its cousins were unique to the grounds, as Mr Jefferson called them, of the University of Virginia. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> >> Maybe this usage has changed, but when I moved to England I quickly >> >> discovered that calling them "movies" was considered a bit [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >That would be university students in America, not students at >American University? I would have capitalized "University" if I had meant American University. >> I first heard the usage in >> 1955 in Williamstown, Massachusetts. Which has a college, not a university. Oh, well... >I was in Boston and when we went to a "Carry On" or an Alec Guinness >movie we liked to say we were going to a flick. That's the only time >we used the word. In my particular case we were going to the Williamstown Theater to see "Gung Din", which was treated as an audience participation movie. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * John Varela <OLDlamps@verizon.net>: >When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression that >Brits viewed flicks. This Brit went to "the flicks", to watch films. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote > John Varela <OLDlamps@verizon.net>: >> When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression >> that Brits viewed flicks. > > This Brit went to "the flicks", to watch films. ISTR that when I asked some friends about this c.1983 -- we were all in our early 30s -- the consensus was that the safe version was that one went to the pictures to watch films. No one suggested "the flicks", so I suspect by then it was a period term for post-war peeps, at least in the south of England. (They agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday vocabulary.) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday > vocabulary.) In fact we do say 'going to the pictures' in our house and I do say 'movie', though Mrs C gets quite heated about this and tells me it's 'film'. Lets just hope she doesn't notice that I've started replying to the question 'How are you?' with 'Good' over the last year or so. I blame those chaps on the wireless, personally. DC -- On 13 Feb 2010, Django Cat wrote -snip- > In fact we do say 'going to the pictures' in our house and I do > say 'movie', though Mrs C gets quite heated about this and tells > me it's 'film'. Lets just hope she doesn't notice that I've > started replying to the question 'How are you?' with 'Good' over > the last year or so. I blame those chaps on the wireless, > personally. I do hope you've not started telling her to have a nice day... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >to the question 'How are you?' with 'Good' over the last year or so. I >blame those chaps on the wireless, personally. I generally say "film" for movies that are better than average, but I never say "the pictures" or, even more old-fashioned, "the picture show". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > "Django Cat" wrote: >>>> John Varela wrote: >>>>> When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression >>>>> that Brits viewed flicks. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > never say "the pictures" or, even more old-fashioned, "the picture > show". Not to forget the "moving picture show". SignatureSkitt (AmE) > > "Django Cat" wrote: > >>>> John Varela wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Not to forget the "moving picture show". That would be "movin' pitcha show". SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >>>>>> John Varela wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > That would be "movin' pitcha show". Also familiar: "moo'm pitch'". We were economical: "Goin' to the show?" SignatureFrank ess >> "Django Cat" wrote: >>>>> John Varela wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Not to forget the "moving picture show". That's so old, I had forgotten it, Alec, but I do remember the great film, "The Last Picture Show". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday >vocabulary.) My college friends and I called them flicks in the sixties, in Virginia. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>No one suggested "the flicks", so I suspect by then it was a period >>term for post-war peeps, at least in the south of England. (They [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >My college friends and I called them flicks in the sixties, in >Virginia. My friends and I called them "scopes" in the sixties, in Natal. Though "films" and "movies" were also used. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > ISTR that when I asked some friends about this c.1983 -- we were all > in our early 30s -- the consensus was that the safe version was that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday > vocabulary.) "The flicks" was in use in Cheshire and Lincolnshire in my and my relatives' experience at least as far back as the 1960s. So, it may well have extended from the south of England as far north as the current East Midlands (Lincolnshire) and the south part of the North West (Cheshire) regions of England. SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. On 13 Feb 2010, Zhang Dawei wrote >> ISTR that when I asked some friends about this c.1983 -- we >> were all in our early 30s -- the consensus was that the safe [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "The flicks" was in use in Cheshire and Lincolnshire in my and > my relatives' experience at least as far back as the 1960s. Were you still using it in the 1980s? That's when I had the discussion about "movies" vs "pictures" with other people in my age group (born in the late 1940s and early 1950s), and I don't recall anyone suggesting it as a then-current usage. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> "The flicks" was in use in Cheshire and Lincolnshire in my and >> my relatives' experience at least as far back as the 1960s. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > group (born in the late 1940s and early 1950s), and I don't recall > anyone suggesting it as a then-current usage. In the 1980s, it was still used very occasionally in my hearing, but my memory of its use then is that it was a slightly "old fashioned" term, and possibly used to indicate someone a bit out of touch with modern idioms. So, that might suggest an experience similar to yours. SignatureZhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK. Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message. >>> "The flicks" was in use in Cheshire and Lincolnshire in my and >>> my relatives' experience at least as far back as the 1960s. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >term, and possibly used to indicate someone a bit out of touch with >modern idioms. So, that might suggest an experience similar to yours. It was already an old-fashioned thing when I first heard it used in the Williamstown, Mass, area in the mid-1950s. I wasn't sure what it meant and was told it was short for "flickers", which was even then a quaint term for the days of silent movies and projectors that made the images flicker. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Hatunen <hatunen@cox.net>: >>>> "The flicks" was in use in Cheshire and Lincolnshire in my and >>>> my relatives' experience at least as far back as the 1960s. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >even then a quaint term for the days of silent movies and >projectors that made the images flicker. Whereas I learned somehow that "the flicks" came from the movies we made ourselves, by drawing successive "frames" on page corners of our exercise books, and flicking through them. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >On 13 Feb 2010, Zhang Dawei wrote > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >group (born in the late 1940s and early 1950s), and I don't recall >anyone suggesting it as a then-current usage. Thre is an Internet business called "NetFlix" which rents DVDs for a flat monthly fee. I don't know if this is a USA only thing.... Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday >vocabulary.) Mike and Tony have the timing about right. I was brought up in the 1940s to use "cinema" or "pictures", and to see a "film", but never a "movie" although we knew the word. In the 1950s I heard "flicks" used quite often, but not recently. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >"movie" although we knew the word. In the 1950s I heard "flicks" used >quite often, but not recently. I don't remember that we ever "viewed" them, though. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>> On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > I don't remember that we ever "viewed" them, though. I'd say one "saw" a film or play, "watched" a TV prog, and "viewed" things like slides or 3D pairs which needed a "viewer" that could only be used by one person at a time. SignatureMike. >> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:42:18 +0000, Robin Bignall >>> Mike and Tony have the timing about right. I was brought up in the >>> 1940s to use "cinema" or "pictures", and to see a "film", but never [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >things like slides or 3D pairs which needed a "viewer" that could only >be used by one person at a time. Oh yes, I'd forgotten those. But I think we "looked at" them, rather than "viewed" them. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:42:18 +0000, Robin Bignall > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Oh yes, I'd forgotten those. But I think we "looked at" them, rather >than "viewed" them. We looked at, not viewed, slides, too. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>> On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > things like slides or 3D pairs which needed a "viewer" that could > only be used by one person at a time. "Heard" Joan Baez in concert. "Saw" the cirque Pollack Bros. on-stage at the Shrine Auditorium. "Rode" the Chicagoan. "Took" the bus from Wichita Falls to L.A., but "rode" it all the way. "Ate at" Taix, and at Lawry's, and at the Brown Derby. "Dug" Dave van Ronk at the Ash Grove. "Watched" Steve Allen on local TV. "Banged" old Whatsername('s "box")."Took a class" from Baxter at USC. "Drove" Route 66. "Grokked" the ineffable in Pirates Alley, NO. "Stood up" as best man at a wedding. Busy kid, back in the day. > On 12 Feb 2010, Mike Barnes wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > agreed, though, that "movie" wasn't part of their everyday > vocabulary.) Curiously, at Caltech (southern California) in the 1950s, we said "Let's flick out". Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: Here's to the happiest days of my life, :|| ||: Spent in the arms of another man's wife -- my mother. :|| >> When I was in college in the 1950s we were under the impression that >> Brits viewed flicks. > This Brit went to "the flicks", to watch films. ISTR that in UK in the 1950s and 1960s we went to "the cinema" or to "the pictures," but I don't recall now what it was that we saw there. Arriving in Adelaide in 1963, I found that people went to see "a fillum"; I don't recall them mentioning where they were going to see it -- although, now that I think of it, it was probably the drive-in most of the time. Perce > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > Brett (in Berkeley, California, USA) I've been there and found the seats to be the most UN-comfy I've ever encountered. They make you feel sort of folded-in upon and there's no way to sit up straight in them. When I find out the movie is being shown in the "Screening Lounge" I make it a point to wait until it comes to another theatre . . . >> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling >> "theatre" seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > movie is being shown in the "Screening Lounge" I make it a point to > wait until it comes to another theatre . . . Your description corresponds to the seating I first found in a "Thing-20"-style group of shoebox theaters quite a few years ago, and which was responsible for my continuing antipathy to seeing films in film venues. Even the old "Loge" seats were better. I think Barkley Brett's comfy seats /must/ be different from yours. SignatureFrank ess >>> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling >>> "theatre" seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > venues. Even the old "Loge" seats were better. I think Barkley Brett's > comfy seats /must/ be different from yours. Nope ----- the seats Berkley Brett is talking about are at the Shattuck Cinema in Berkeley, and that's the theatre I'm talking about. Super-soft, super-yielding foam rubber padding with no support at all. Signaturealan (in Albany, California, USA) > Nope ----- the seats Berkley Brett is talking about are at the Shattuck > Cinema in Berkeley, and that's the theatre I'm talking about. Super-soft, > super-yielding foam rubber padding with no support at all. Is that the seats or the occupants? Regards Jonathan >I've been there and found the seats to be the most UN-comfy I've ever >encountered. They make you feel sort of folded-in upon and there's no way >to sit up straight in them. When I find out the movie is being shown in the >"Screening Lounge" I make it a point to wait until it comes to another >theatre . . . I don't recall being to a theater/theatre where the chairs were noticeably uncomfortable, but there are some that I won't go back to because of the floor. When you almost pull a hamstring getting your shoe unstuck from the floor, you tend to mark that place off your list. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>I've been there and found the seats to be the most UN-comfy I've ever >>encountered. They make you feel sort of folded-in upon and there's no [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't recall being to a theater/theatre where the chairs were > noticeably uncomfortable, Four words: BAM Majestic, Brooklyn, balcony. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The "Landmark Theatre" chain is an example of this: Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I live and learn. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I >live and learn. "Centre" is used in many of the same places and for the same reasons. It's "Newton Centre" but "Middleboro Center". -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 >> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I >> live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -GAWollman Yes, I've noticed that with Centre Street in Manhattan (thanks originally to the TV show "100 Centre Street"). SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >Yes, I've noticed that with Centre Street in Manhattan (thanks >originally to the TV show "100 Centre Street"). I once met a judge whose court was in Centre Street, and I think it may even have been at number 100. And when he have his address he always said it was spelt like that, because even in Namibia (where I met him) people know that Americans spell centre "center". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I >live and learn. There may even be an instance of a homber dying and becoming a sombre spectre, if you look hard enough. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I >> live and learn. > > There may even be an instance of a homber dying and becoming a sombre spectre, > if you look hard enough. Homber? That's a new one on me, and OED lists it as a variant of hambargh, which is obsolete. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Homber? That's a new one on me, and OED lists it as a variant of > hambargh, which is obsolete. We're talking about "er" and "re" endings - try hombre. SignatureRay UK >>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We're talking about "er" and "re" endings - try hombre. I thought of that, but the pronunciations would be quite different, unlike the other "er" and "re" endings we were talking about. SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >>>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I thought of that, but the pronunciations would be quite different, > unlike the other "er" and "re" endings we were talking about. Yes, but it was an attempt at levity. SignatureRay UK >>>>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes, but it was an attempt at levity. Americans will occasionally attempt levity by pronouncing "centre" and "theatre", as in (say) the Mudville Centre mall, home of the Mudville Repertoire Theatre as "sentry" and "Thee-at-tree" (/Ti-/) to poke fun at their pretentiousness when used in American English. I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one in New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from pre- Webster days rather than attempts at conveying an upmarket image through imported spelling. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one in > New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from pre- > Webster days rather than attempts at conveying an upmarket image through > imported spelling. I'm sure that's the case in the instance of Centreville, Virginia, but I nevertheless feel compelled to pronounce it Cent-revel. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one in >> New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from pre- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I'm sure that's the case in the instance of Centreville, Virginia, >but I nevertheless feel compelled to pronounce it Cent-revel. What a dump, as Bette Davis might have called it. Yes, I know, she was talking about a room or a house, I forget which, in the film, but the principle applies. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>>>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>>>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Webster days rather than attempts at conveying an upmarket image through >imported spelling. I see that the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood uses the "pretentious" spelling even though it is less than a decade old. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Kodak_theatre.450px.jpg Codesigner of that building was Theatre Project Consultants. Looking at the company's portfolio of projects in North America it seems that "Theatre" is used much more often than "Theater" in the names of their clients buildings. The company started in the UK and expanded into the US. I assume that that would have little effect of their clients choice of spelling. http://www.theatreprojects.com/projects/browse_projects/region/north_america Some of the buildings are Centers. Those in Canada are Centres. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>>>>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I see that the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood uses the "pretentious" > spelling even though it is less than a decade old. Pretension has no correlation with age, Grasshopper. Not good ol' American pretension (finest money can buy), at any rate. Your kilometrage may vary. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > >>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:12:24 +1030, annily > <annily@annily.invalid> >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Mudville Repertoire Theatre as "sentry" and "Thee-at-tree" (/Ti-/) to > poke fun at their pretentiousness when used in American English. Ah. We were only doing the Alice's Restaurant "Massacree" here just lately. A 40 year mystery is cleared up for me. DC -- >> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:12:24 +1030, annily >> <annily@annily.invalid> >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Ah. We were only doing the Alice's Restaurant "Massacree" here just > lately. A 40 year mystery is cleared up for me. I am not certain that I ever recognized the connection, but I believe you are on to something. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one in > New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from pre- > Webster days rather than attempts at conveying an upmarket image through > imported spelling. Even when you mean to type Centre Street, it's hard, isn't it? >> I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one in >> New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from pre- >> Webster days rather than attempts at conveying an upmarket image through >> imported spelling. > >Even when you mean to type Centre Street, it's hard, isn't it? Yes. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>> I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one >>> in New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yes. And yes. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >>>> I suspect, however, that a few of the Center Streets (such as the one >>>> in New York) and possibly some geographic names are survivals from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >And yes. It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean "centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > Roland Hutchinson<my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do > that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. And don't get me started on THRU <shudder>. SignatureDavid >> Roland Hutchinson<my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >And don't get me started on THRU <shudder>. Since you had to mention thru, I'll remind you of LITE. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >"centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do >that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. I'm curious. What programming language has "center" as a keyword? COBOL? -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 >>It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >>"centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do >>that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. > > I'm curious. What programming language has "center" as a keyword? > COBOL? I can't think of any programming languages as such, but HTML and related things (XHTML, CSS) use "center". SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? >>It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >>"centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do >>that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. > >I'm curious. What programming language has "center" as a keyword? >COBOL? HTML - not programming, but markup. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Garrett Wollman <wollman@bimajority.org>: >>It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >>"centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do >>that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. > >I'm curious. What programming language has "center" as a keyword? >COBOL? It doesn't have to be a keyword in the programming language. For instance when programming in JavaScript or PHP I'm quite likely to have to type HTML keywords such as "center" and "color". And if I spell them normally, the program doesn't work. Some other words that I have to remember to spell weirdly are dialogue, despatch, authorise, maximise, minimise, tokenise, (that's enough "ise"s for now), grey, favourite, catalogue, and licence. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >>It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >>"centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do >>that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. > >I'm curious. What programming language has "center" as a keyword? >COBOL? Rexx does*, but as it was written by a Brit it allows "centre" and "center". (* : not as a keyword but as a built-in function) > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do > that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. I managed to misspell PROCEDURE consistently and repeatedly in the first assignment I did for my Intro to Programing class as a college freshman. I think I got back the longest error listing of anyone in the class on the first run. (It was punched cards and greenbar printouts in those days, of course.) SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Roland Hutchinson filted: >> It's also hard for us right-ponders to type "center" when we mean >> "centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >the first run. (It was punched cards and greenbar printouts in those >days, of course.) Bad word to have that particular problem with...messes up every single program in either PL/I or COBOL....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Roland Hutchinson filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Bad word to have that particular problem with...messes up every single > program in either PL/I or COBOL....r Indeed, it was in fact a very PL/I-subset-like language that had been developed for teaching programming. Whizzed through trayfuls of little student programs 3 or 4 times a day on the campus mainframe. Kicked 'em out if they used more than a second of CPU time on the assumption that they were stuck in a loop. (For one assignment I managed to write an elegantly expressed but inefficient program that took longer, and they gave me some extra CPU time. Hey--they gonna let me write recursive procedures, I'm gonna use 'em. Efficiency is a compiler issue, right?) SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >I managed to misspell PROCEDURE consistently and repeatedly in the first >assignment I did for my Intro to Programing class as a college freshman. > >I think I got back the longest error listing of anyone in the class on >the first run. (It was punched cards and greenbar printouts in those >days, of course.) My university maths tutor in the 60s had a stack of used fanfold paper to write on the back of. It was about four inches thick and looked like a compiler listing where every line started with the word ERROR. This did not make a very good impression on me. Only later did it occur to me that he might have been testing the compiler that he'd written. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > My university maths tutor in the 60s had a stack of used fanfold paper > to write on the back of. It was about four inches thick and looked like > a compiler listing where every line started with the word ERROR. This > did not make a very good impression on me. Only later did it occur to me > that he might have been testing the compiler that he'd written. "If it didn't fail the unit tests, are you sure you changed anything?" (recent facetious comment at work) Signaturehmmmm: sounds like the same DLL hell problem my cousin had. try deleting all DLLs in your Windows/system32 directory and see what happens. (Bryce Utting) > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >>I managed to misspell PROCEDURE consistently and repeatedly in the first [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > did not make a very good impression on me. Only later did it occur to me > that he might have been testing the compiler that he'd written. Heck, we (70s) wrote _everything_ (except, usually, assignments to turn in) on the back of used fanfold. You could always find a supply for the taking at the Comp Center. Once, one of my classmates retrieved a big stack of a botched run of someones program on "thesis paper" -- heavy, high-rag-content, greenbar-less fanfold intended for archival-quality printouts. This he conserved in some manner for use on special occasions. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) Roland Hutchinson filted: >>>I think I got back the longest error listing of anyone in the class on >>>the first run. (It was punched cards and greenbar printouts in those [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >high-rag-content, greenbar-less fanfold intended for archival-quality >printouts. This he conserved in some manner for use on special occasions. Shortly after I started the job I held for twenty-five years, I heard greenbar printouts referred to as "watermelon paper"...I've yet to find a better descriptive name for the stuff....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: >Shortly after I started the job I held for twenty-five years, I heard greenbar >printouts referred to as "watermelon paper"...I've yet to find a better >descriptive name for the stuff....r We didn't often have reason to refer to it by name, but if it had one, it was "music paper". SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>: >>Shortly after I started the job I held for twenty-five years, I heard [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > We didn't often have reason to refer to it by name, but if it had one, > it was "music paper". Hm, bit of a namespace collision that would have been around my department. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net>: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "centre". Programming in American-designed languages requires us to do > that sort of thing a *lot*. It's not good for us. It's a bloody pain that's what it is. It's not quite so bad in languages that give errors, but HTML and CSS just quietly ignore "align: centre" or "colour: pink". You can spend /forever/ working out what's causing them to fail. REXX had it right. SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk Nick: > It's a bloody pain that's what it is. It's not quite so bad in > languages that give errors, but HTML and CSS just quietly ignore "align: > centre" or "colour: pink". HTML can't give errors because it's just a notation, a data format. It can't do anything. > You can spend /forever/ working out what's causing them to fail. You can run your stylesheet through a CSS checker, which will report <centre>, <colour>, <grey>, and so on. http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ I can't think of anything like this in HTML that isn't deprecated, but it's worth validating anyway to catch any other syntax errors. http://validator.w3.org/ SignatureJohn > > <ann...@annily.invalid> typed: > >>> <ann...@annily.invalid> typed: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Repertoire Theatre as "sentry" and "Thee-at-tree" (/Ti-/) to poke fun at > their pretentiousness when used in American English. A shopping center in the town I grew up in is now Towne Centre, pronounced "townie sentry" by all right-thinking residents. A free pun is available because it's on Chagrin Boulevard. -- Jerry Friedman Jerry Friedman: > A shopping center in the town I grew up in is now Towne Centre, > pronounced "townie sentry" by all right-thinking residents. There used to be one around here called Towne and Countrye. This was enough of a mouthful that it never occurred to me to add any more syllables to the pronunciation. These days it's called Centerpoint (yes, with an "er"). It is located at Yonge and Steeles. Steeles is the city limit of Toronto. SignatureMark Brader | "... you're a detective, you like mysteries." Toronto | "I hate mysteries. What I like are *solutions*." msb@vex.net | --Barbara Paul, "The Apostrophe Thief" My text in this article is in the public domain. > Jerry Friedman: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > syllables to the pronunciation. These days it's called Centerpoint > (yes, with an "er"). The spelling is always more glamo(u)rous on the other side of the fence > It is located at Yonge and Steeles. Steeles > is the city limit of Toronto. How strange--it makes sense. -- Jerry Friedman Mark Brader filted: >Jerry Friedman: >> A shopping center in the town I grew up in is now Towne Centre, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >(yes, with an "er"). It is located at Yonge and Steeles. Steeles >is the city limit of Toronto. I used to live on a street called Osborn and work at an office complex called The Pointe...I figure there's some Law of Conservation of Silent E's involved....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>>>>> Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at >>>>>> all. I live and learn. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Yes, but it was an attempt at levity. Yes, which went against my logical thinking, I guess :) SignatureLong-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions. >> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" >> seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I > live and learn. I recollect there was some detailed discussion here about this, with instances of US 'theatre', a couple of years ago but I can't locate it in Google Deja. I think Tony was involved. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > > > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling > > > "theatre" seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > instances of US 'theatre', a couple of years ago but I can't locate > it in Google Deja. I think Tony was involved. That's usually a safe bet... DC -- >> As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" >> seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Wow. I didn't know the "theatre" spelling was used in the US at all. I >live and learn. Well, if a person is writing home to mother about seeing a play, they likely will write "theater." Advertisers like to name things "Theatre", I suspect, in order to make their venue stand out somehow. I'd bet that at least 95% or more of Americans use the "theater" spelling. > As near as I can tell (in the U.S. at least), the spelling "theatre" > seems to be used to distinguish those cinemas that are more likely to [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Pictorial election results for every U.S. Presidential Election from > George Washington to Barack Obama. I thought that "theatre" was the British spelling, and "theater" was the US spelling. > The "Landmark Theatre" chain is an example of this: > > http://www.landmarktheatres.com/ > > Any thoughts on this usage? Yep. You septics oughta learn to spell proper. Derek Turner filted: >> The "Landmark Theatre" chain is an example of this: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >Yep. You septics oughta learn to spell proper. Should that be "propre"?...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Many interesting thoughts here. Thank you all for them! Another instance of something like what we are discussing: I find the use of the French "Parc" instead of the English "Park" a tad pretentious: http://www.parc55hotel.com/ Even so, I'd probably stay there if I could find the right discount coupon.... -- Brett (in Berkeley, California, USA) http://www.electoralmaps.org/ Pictorial election results for every U.S. Presidential Election from George Washington to Barack Obama. >Many interesting thoughts here. Thank you all for them! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Even so, I'd probably stay there if I could find the right discount >coupon.... There is a business known as Center Parcs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_Parcs Center Parcs[1] is a European network of holiday villages incorporating* a UK based company which runs holiday villages in Britain and a sister enterprise that operates in numerous locations in continental Europe. [1] The spelling Center Parcs, the official name, is incorrect in every language. In British English, spelling rules prescribe Centre Parks, in American English Center Parks (see spelling differences), and in French Centre Parcs. * "Incorporating" is not quite correct. The UK and European companies are now distinct. As Wikip says: "Centerparcs Europe and Centerparcs UK share only history, name and logo". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >[1] The spelling Center Parcs, the official name, is incorrect in >every language. In British English, spelling rules prescribe Centre >Parks, in American English Center Parks (see spelling differences), >and in French Centre Parcs. but Center Parcs is Dutch! > There is a business known as Center Parcs: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_Parcs [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > are now distinct. As Wikip says: "Centerparcs Europe and Centerparcs UK > share only history, name and logo". I didn't know that. A Dutch colleague told me that the company started there (and that he used to go there a lot as a kid), and I got the impression that at the UK sites I've been to, the outdoors staff have workwear that "looks European" (it reminded me of the green suits at Hoogovens, but with outside pockets). SignatureTheir tags shall blink until the end of days. BoM 12:10 |
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