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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Koestler: caught him up
Hello: Any difference between: "Richard caught him up" and "Richard caught up with him" in such a context? --- ["Comrades," now at odds. Richard tries to get to talk to him again. Descending steps: ] On the bottom step Richard caught him up, panting breathlessly. Rubashov went straight on, neither hastening nor slacking his pace and without turning his head. Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 47 Tr. Daphne Hardy --- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Richard caught up with him" > in such a context? Yes, but "caught him up" sounds like what a NA$CAR driver would say when he was gainingon the leader. >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"Richard caught up with him" >in such a context? Not that I can think of. >--- >["Comrades," now at odds. Richard tries to get to talk to him again. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Tr. Daphne Hardy >---  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Rubashov went straight on, neither hastening nor slacking his pace and >without turning his head. I think the second version would be slightly ambiguous as to who was doing the panting. (but only slightly; it would probably be OK to most readers) Katy On Feb 13, 5:06 pm, k...@cam.ac.uk wrote: > >Any difference between: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I think the second version would be slightly ambiguous as to who was doing the > panting. (but only slightly; it would probably be OK to most readers) Ah, I see your point. Thank you all. Marius Hancu On Feb 13, 10:06 pm, k...@cam.ac.uk wrote: > In article <3b973511-8dd6-4894-bccc-540e4cb1f...@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Katy I think the full stop removes any ambiguity. To me "caught him up" has echoes of "caught him out" and so I would use "caught up with him". Purely a personal view as both forms are probably (I am not an uber- grammarian) used and understood. >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I think the second version would be slightly ambiguous as to who was doing the >panting. (but only slightly; it would probably be OK to most readers) "Panting breathlessly" does not bear too much logical analysis. One might assume that a person who is breathless is not breathing. A person who is not breathing cannot pant. However, a person who is "panting breathlessly" is breathing more heavily than usual. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Feb 13, 11:20 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >In article <3b973511-8dd6-4894-bccc-540e4cb1f...@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, > >>Hello: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Peter Duncanson, UK > (in alt.usage.english) Perhaps the act of trousering himself caused undue strain on the respiratory system. > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Tr. Daphne Hardy > --- The difference is that Americans don't say "caught him up." SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > Any difference between: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > The difference is that Americans don't say "caught him up." Thank you, Donna. Marius Hancu >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> --- > The difference is that Americans don't say "caught him up." Nor do British people in my experience, they say "caught up with him" (unless they're referring to small chidren: "she caught him up in her arms" would sound OK to me). Koestler was a Hungarian who wrote the book in German. Daphne Hardy was British, but she doesn't appear to have been a professional translator, and less good translators sometimes preserve idioms that would be better converted. Signatureathel On Feb 14, 5:05 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr> wrote: > >> Any difference between: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > have been a professional translator, and less good translators > sometimes preserve idioms that would be better converted. All concerns which I have while reading it:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > translators sometimes preserve idioms that would be better > converted. That's interesting. I've always thought of "catch [pron.] up" as BrE for "catch up with", but a lot of my exposure to BrE is through books. There are a lot of hits, many of them relevant, at GBooks for "catch you up", including an early one from _Our Mutual friend_ (and an early AmE example from _Harper's Magazine_). Some for "caught him up" too, but not as many. Guess the idiom is fading away. http://books.google.co.uk/books?q=%22catch+you+up%22&btnG=Search+Books >>> Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 47 >>> Tr. Daphne Hardy >>> --- >> The difference is that Americans don't say "caught him up." Not with that sense. An American would say "caught him up" to mean "sat down with him and gave him the information that others knew but he didn't." > Nor do British people in my experience, they say "caught up with > him" (unless they're referring to small chidren: "she caught him up > in her arms" would sound OK to me). Koestler was a Hungarian who > wrote the book in German. I did not know that. I read it in high school but hadn't realized that it was in translation. The Wikipedia article on the book says that the English version was the first one published and that the German original is lost. (Current German versions are back-translations from the English.) Also interesting is that (again according to the Wikipedia article), the book is the middle of a trilogy, all volumes of which were written in different languages (the first in Hungarian and the third in English). Has anybody else done that? > Daphne Hardy was British, but she doesn't appear to have been a > professional translator, and less good translators sometimes > preserve idioms that would be better converted. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If all else fails, embarrass the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |industry into doing the right Palo Alto, CA 94304 |thing. | Dean Thompson kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>> Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 47 >>>> Tr. Daphne Hardy [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> in her arms" would sound OK to me). Koestler was a Hungarian who >> wrote the book in German. "Caught him up in her arms" is normal; but the main point didn't seem right to me, so I checked. OED has the following, very much à propos, and from a respected source: "1927 JESPERSEN Mod. Eng. Gram. (1928) III. 271 Where an Englishman says 'I shall catch you up', or 'I'll catch up with you', Americans know only the latter phrase." SignatureMike. >>>>> Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 47 >>>>> Tr. Daphne Hardy [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >271 Where an Englishman says 'I shall catch you up', or 'I'll catch up >with you', Americans know only the latter phrase." Since when has à propos been apropos? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>> (Donna Richoux) said: >>>>>> Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 47 >>>>>> Tr. Daphne Hardy [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Since when has à propos been apropos? It's apropos when you try to speak in tongues. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>>> (Donna Richoux) said: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >It's apropos when you try to speak in tongues. Chacun à son goût, if don't mind me joining in. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE On Feb 14, 4:05 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr> wrote: > >> Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - BBC Brits do, in TV shows. IIRC, I heard "I'll catch you up" with this meaning in Blake's 7. |
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