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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Koestler: cock's crow
Hello: Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" Both seem to be used. --- [1933, Germany. The communists are under heavy pressure. The populace shuns them.] Only few people ever saw the pamphlets and they threw them away quickly for they shuddered at the message of the dead; the slogans on the walls were gone by cock's crow, and the flags were pulled down from the chimneys, .. Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 32 Tr. Daphne Hardy --- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Tr. Daphne Hardy > --- Can cocks sing?  SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Can cocks sing? You've never bought a Robbie Williams album SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You've never bought a Robbie Williams album Never heard of him. I'm not into pop music. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >>> Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > -- > Skitt (AmE) Don't worry neither is he. PS Should countyside be made a legal offense? >>>>> Hello: >>>>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >>>>> Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Don't worry neither is he. Wikipedia says that he is into: Pop rock, adult contemporary, Britpop, soft rock, dance-pop, swing revival, dance-rock, traditional pop, hip hop. That's all I know about him. Have I been misled? > PS Should countyside be made a legal offense? Huh? SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>>>> Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >> PS Should countyside be made a legal offense? Is that right or should it be countryside? >Huh? How about suiside then? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >>>>> Hello: > >>>>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > -- > Skitt (AmE) I was slightly taken aback by the terms "Robbie Williams" and "music" in the same sentence .( My poor wife had to administer smelling salts and severe slaps to the face but I am coming round now). Oh dear, jokes, especially bad ones lose all their flavour when they have to be explained. Think "homicide". >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >the walls were gone by cock's crow, and the flags were pulled down >from the chimneys, .. I don't think I've ever seen "cock's song". Cock crow (usually without the 's) is a time of day; cocks can and do crow at any time of day, but the first period when they do so is cock crow. Where hasve you seen "cock's song" used? It would have to be for a special effect, I think. Katy On Feb 13, 5:09 pm, k...@cam.ac.uk wrote: > Where hasve you seen "cock's song" used? It would have to be for a special > effect, I think. There are quite many at Google Books: http://tinyurl.com/ykc39gs Thanks. Marius Hancu > On Feb 13, 5:09 pm, k...@cam.ac.uk wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > There are quite many at Google Books: > http://tinyurl.com/ykc39gs Only 40 hits, compared to hundreds and hundreds for various forms of "crow." Several of the hits for "cock's song" refer to the ancient Greeks, as if it is a direct translation of a Greek term. A couple more refer to Chaucer, and one to Shakespeare: It faded on the crowing of the cock. Some say that ever 'gainst that season comes Wherein our Saviour's birth is celebrated, The bird of dawning singeth all night long: And then, they say, no spirit dares stir abroad ... SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Katy I used to think cocks crowed only at dawn. I eventually discovered that they hadn't read the same books I've read! I've never heard of a cock's song. I've only heard of any bird singing if the bird produces something that sounds reasonably good. Crows, for example, don't sing; they caw. Canaries sing, as do all those little songbirds. SignatureCheryl On 13 Feb 2010, Cheryl wrote > Canaries sing, as do all those little songbirds. As do scared, minor, invariably-nicknamed criminals. I know: I've watched too many gangster movies... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On Feb 13, 10:09 pm, k...@cam.ac.uk wrote: > In article <70d9e630-3b28-451a-81f0-c0fb13986...@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Katy And what kind of noise do hen crows make? > Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" > Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Arthur Koestler, Darkness at Noon, p. 32 > Tr. Daphne Hardy This looks like an editorial error. "Cockcrow" (single word) was a standard English term for dawn, first light, etc. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Tr. Daphne Hardy > --- Cocks crow at dawn. > Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" > Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Tr. Daphne Hardy > --- What everybody else has said about "song". There may be an oblique reference to Saint Peter's denial of Christ three times on the night of his arrest, before the cock crew. The people denied their support to the demonstrators, out of fear. Luke 22: 60And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew. 61And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 62And Peter went out, and wept bitterly. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22&version=KJV > > Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" > > Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22&version=KJV Being an atheist I have never seen "crew" for "crowed" before now, yet the dictionaries do list it as an alternative to "crowed". I hate it when dictionaries opine that a word is "obselete". I shall pointedly use the word at the next meeting of the Dog and Duck debating society to see what responses this elicitates. Are there any more verbs that follow this conjugation? >>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >>> Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Are there any more verbs that follow this conjugation? Everyone, even atheists, should read the KJV of the Bible, if only for the beauty of the language - I know that there are many later and more accurate translations for those who want to understand what the original texts actually said in modern English. Besides, if you read the KJV and Shakespeare, you can condemn many a later writer for lack of originality because all they did was re-use all those commonplace sayings found in one of those two sources. Of course, unsympathetic dictionary editors will label a lot of the words you find there as archaic or obsolete, but they are still beautiful. SignatureCheryl >>>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >>>> Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > accurate translations for those who want to understand what the original > texts actually said in modern English. Quite right. I heard it read aloud daily in school assemblies for 14 years and greatly appreciate the language. It's one of the reasons I'm here. SignatureDavid <snip> >> Everyone, even atheists, should read the KJV of the Bible, if only for >> the beauty of the language - I know that there are many later and more [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >years and greatly appreciate the language. It's one of the reasons I'm >here. Not only are parts of the KJV of the Bible beautiful, but, along with phrases from Shakespeare, they are among the most frequently quoted and universally known phrases in our language, it seems to me. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >> > Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >> > Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >Are there any more verbs that follow this conjugation? "Throw"/"Threw". "Throwed" used to be used in the 18th and 19th centuries but is now restricted to dialect (somewhere) according to the OED. "Grow"/"Grew". "Growed" is marked "18th and 19th centuries dialect and vulgar". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >>>> Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > "Grow"/"Grew". "Growed" is marked "18th and 19th centuries dialect and > vulgar". Well I'm blowed! SignatureJames <snip> >> "Grow"/"Grew". "Growed" is marked "18th and 19th centuries dialect and >> vulgar". > >Well I'm blowed! You're alluding to "blow me down, mate", I suspect, which, of course, is not vulgar. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE >>>>> Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" >>>>> Both seem to be used. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Well I'm blowed! When Saint George slew the dragon the dragon was, like, totally slowed. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > When Saint George slew the dragon the dragon was, like, totally slowed. Who woulda knowed it? Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: It is my duty as a citizen to make my rulers' work hard, but :|| ||: not too hard. :|| >> When Saint George slew the dragon the dragon was, like, totally >> slowed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>> It is my duty as a citizen to make my rulers' work hard, but :|| >>>> not too hard. :|| Cue for kilt joke, ending: ... "Och, Jummie, it's gruesome!" "An' if ye pit yir hand there again, ye'll find it's grew some more!" SignatureMike. > > "Throw"/"Threw". "Throwed" used to be used in the 18th and 19th > > centuries but is now restricted to dialect (somewhere) according to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well I'm blowed! The cock's crown, however, is a noun, and it's usually called a comb. I think I may occasionally have seen "crewn" and heard it pronounced like "crone." ¬R > Any difference between "cock's crow" and "cock's song?" I would use only "crow" to mean an instance of crowing or the time of crowing. I would use "song" only in talking about the form the song takes. The cock's song is a cock-a-doodle-doo crow. The cock's crow is at dawn--and dusk, but nobody calls that cock's-crow because there are so many other sounds then. The cock's song at dusk differs from his song at dawn in that the last note is lower than the middle one. I know this from being alerted to sunset by the cock's crow at my grandmother's house for many years. ¬R |
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