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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010"Put the pedal to the medal"
In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's proofreader (or copy editor) had been laid off (or terminated) in these hard times. But then I thought: Is the "medal" version a common alternate? Google has both "metal" and "medal" but I didn't do any counts. Do you see the "medal" version often? (Hearing it doesn't really count -- "metal" and "medal" can sound very much alike.)  SignatureMaria Conlon > In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the > medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Do you see the "medal" version often? (Hearing it doesn't really count -- > "metal" and "medal" can sound very much alike.) They need a proofreader. Maria Conlon filted: >In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the >medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Do you see the "medal" version often? (Hearing it doesn't really >count -- "metal" and "medal" can sound very much alike.) Counts: "pedal to the medal" 306,000 "pedal to the metal" 869,000 "pedal to the meddle" 30,000 "pedal to the mettle" 53,000 "peddle to the medal" 42,100 "peddle to the metal" 208,000 "peddle to the meddle" 66,900 "peddle to the mettle" 12,100 "petal to the medal" 50,700 "petal to the metal" 329,000 "petal to the meddle" 7,360 "petal to the mettle" 58,900 On the one hand, it's nice to see that the correct version is still the leader...on the other hand, even the least frequent manglings have counts that suggest a substantial population of people who have no idea what they're saying....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Maria Conlon filted: >> In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the >> medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > have counts that suggest a substantial population of people who have > no idea what they're saying....r It's the "half are below average" thing, or something like that, innit? SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> Maria Conlon filted: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >It's the "half are below average" thing, or something like that, innit? I think Ron is being too hard on people who can't spell. It isn't as if they can't think properly, a condition that having a small vocabulary could be indicative of. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE R H Draney skrev: > Counts: > "pedal to the medal" 306,000 > "pedal to the metal" 869,000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "petal to the meddle" 7,360 > "petal to the mettle" 58,900 > On the one hand, it's nice to see that the correct version is still the > leader...on the other hand, even the least frequent manglings have counts that > suggest a substantial population of people who have no idea what they're > saying....r The percentage of the correct version is 42,7. "put the pedal to the nettle" gives 2 hits. I didn't explore this road any further. SignatureBertel, Denmark Bertel Lund Hansen filted: >R H Draney skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >"put the pedal to the nettle" gives 2 hits. I didn't explore this >road any further. 16,400 for "metal to the pedal", which is apparently the title of a heavy metal rock song by a group called Myth....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Bertel Hansen: > The percentage of the correct version is 42,7. 42.7, in English usage. Or better yet, 42.7%. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "I seem to have become a signature quote." msb@vex.net -- David Keldsen > Bertel Hansen: > > The percentage of the correct version is 42,7. > > 42.7, in English usage. Or better yet, 42.7%. The percentage is 42.7% ...? Noooo. JGH Mark Brader skrev: > > The percentage of the correct version is 42,7. > 42.7, in English usage. I know the English norm. I just forgot to change the decimal point. > Or better yet, 42.7%. No, that is wrong. A percentage of 42.7 % means 0.427 % Likewise a number of kilos can't be 3 kilos. It can only be 3. SignatureBertel, Denmark Bertel Hansen: > > > The percentage of the correct version is 42,7. Mark Brader: > > 42.7, in English usage. > > Or better yet, 42.7%. Bertel Hansen (and also J.G. Harston): > No, that is wrong. A percentage of 42.7 % means 0.427 % No, it doesn't. A "percentage" is a number expressed by multiplying it by 100 (producing the a number of "percentage points") and appending the word "percent" or an equivalent form such as "%". The number of percentage points is not the percentage. The distance is 3 km. The number of kilometers is 3. "Percentage" is analogous to "distance". You might informally give a distance as just "3" if the units will be understood, and in the same way you might informally say that a percentage is 42.7. But that's informal usage. "The percentage is 42.7%" is correct. SignatureMark Brader "It's okay to have our own language if we feel Toronto we need it, but why does it have to be used msb@vex.net as a nose to look down?" -- Becky Slocombe > A "percentage" is a number expressed by multiplying > it by 100 (producing the a number of "percentage points") and appending > the word "percent" or an equivalent form such as "%". "Per cent" means literally "per hundred". In other words, take any ratio and normalize it to the number per hundred. For example, if the ratio is four out of five, then 4/5 = x/100 x = 80 per cent SignatureJohn Varela Mark Brader: > > A "percentage" is a number expressed by multiplying > > it by 100 (producing the a number of "percentage points") and appending > > the word "percent" or an equivalent form such as "%". John Varela: > "Per cent" means literally "per hundred". In other words, take any > ratio and normalize it to the number per hundred. For example, if > the ratio is four out of five, then > > 4/5 = x/100 > x = 80 per cent That's another way to express what it means, yes. (Note that for this purpose a ratio, a fraction, and a quotient are all interchangeable.) SignatureMark Brader | "It doesn't have to actually *be* special, but you have Toronto | to make people think it is, and sometimes the easiest way msb@vex.net | to do that is to make it special." -- Peter Reiher My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader skrev: > > ratio and normalize it to the number per hundred. For example, if > > the ratio is four out of five, then > > 4/5 = x/100 > > x = 80 per cent > That's another way to express what it means, yes. So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the quotient is 0,0005. SignatureBertel, Denmark > Mark Brader skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the > quotient is 0,0005. That's 5/1000 out of 100. You do strange math. SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo erilar skrev: > > So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the > > quotient is 0,0005. > That's 5/1000 out of 100. You do strange math. Somebody does strange math, but it is not me. SignatureBertel, Denmark >> Mark Brader skrev: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > That's 5/1000 out of 100. You do strange math. What is 5/1000? While I get a bit confused on these math questions, I must ask: Is not 0,0005 (0.0005) verbalized as "five ten thousandths"? Pat Durkin must ask: > Is not 0,0005 (0.0005) verbalized as "five ten thousandths"? Hell no. It's "zero point zero zero zero five". SignatureMark Brader, Toronto Carpe pecuniam! msb@vex.net --Roger L. Smith Pat Durkin skrev: > What is 5/1000? While I get a bit confused on these math questions, I > must ask: Is not 0,0005 (0.0005) verbalized as "five ten > thousandths"? 0.0005 and 5/10'000 are two names for the same number. SignatureBertel, Denmark > Pat Durkin skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 0.0005 and 5/10'000 are two names for the same number. That's what I said/thought. Or isn't it? Pat Durkin skrev: > >> What is 5/1000? While I get a bit confused on these math > >> questions, I must ask: Is not 0,0005 (0.0005) verbalized as "five ten > >> thousandths"? > > 0.0005 and 5/10'000 are two names for the same number. > That's what I said/thought. Or isn't it? You posed a question. I answered. But I'm not sure what you mean by "verbalized". I do not read the two names aloud in the same way. I say zero point zero zero zero five (0.0005) and 5 five tenthousands (--------) 10000 SignatureBertel, Denmark > Mark Brader skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the > quotient is 0,0005. Oh. Well, Mark has had some kind of lingering problem. He can't seem to be able to leave off the % sign or the words "per cent". > Mark Brader skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the > quotient is 0,0005. It's eighth-grade algebra. 4/5 = x/100 100 (4/5) = x x = 400/5 x = 80 So 4/5 = 80/100 = 80 per hundred = 80 per cent = 80% I can't put it any simpler than that. SignatureJohn Varela John Varela skrev: > > So saying that the per hundred is 5 per hundred, means that the > > quotient is 0,0005. > It's eighth-grade algebra. I taught this stuf to my sixth-graders. > I can't put it any simpler than that. You are computing a percentage. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about whether it is correct to say that "a percentage is x percent" or not. I say not. A percentage may be 5. The value is 5/100 = 5 %. If one says that a percentage is 5 %, the value is 5 %/100 = 0.0005. 5 % is a numerical value just like 5 is. SignatureBertel, Denmark Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:21:31 +0100 from Bertel Lund Hansen <splitteminebramsejl@lundhansen.dk>: > John Varela skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > If one says that a percentage is 5 %, the value is 5 %/100 = > 0.0005. 5 % is a numerical value just like 5 is. It perhaps bears repeating that language is not a branch of mathematics and not a branch of logic. Things that are wrong in strict logic are nevertheless correct in language. But I would never say "The percentage is" anything. That seems stilted and arbitrary. Arguing about whether it should be "the percentage is five" or the "the percentage is five percent" seems, to me, like arguing between two wrong ways of saying it. I would say "it is five percent". SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... Stan Brown: > But I would never say "The percentage is" anything. That seems > stilted and arbitrary. Arguing about whether it should be "the > percentage is five" or the "the percentage is five percent" seems, to > me, like arguing between two wrong ways of saying it. I would say > "it is five percent". You wouldn't normally, but in context: "100,000 people got sick that year." "What percentage of the population is that?" "25%." (Later) "What did you say was the percentage who got sick?" "25%." So the percentage is 25%, not 25. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "Ah. I am now confused at a much more msb@vex.net | advanced level, thank you." --Mike Lyle My text in this article is in the public domain. Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:19:43 -0600 from Mark Brader <msb@vex.net>: > Stan Brown: > > But I would never say "The percentage is" anything. That seems [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "What did you say was the percentage who got sick?" > "25%." If the question were phrased precisely that way, I'd probably answer "25". But if I were *asking* the question, I wouldn't phrase it that way. Most likely I'd say "what fraction of the population" and then accept an answer of "a quarter" or "25%". > So the percentage is 25%, not 25. "What is the percentage of people who would even be aware of a difference between the two?" "One tenth of one percent." :-) My point is that overemphasizing the literal mathematical meaning of something that is said in ordinary speech is like actually giving a detailed report of your medical problems when someone you meet for the first time says "how do you do?" SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... Stan Brown skrev: > My point is that overemphasizing the literal mathematical meaning of > something that is said in ordinary speech is like actually giving a > detailed report of your medical problems when someone you meet for > the first time says "how do you do?" I don't think I'm overemphasizing anything. If I asked someone about a percentage and got an answer of "25 %", I would interpret it as "25" unless I knew the speaker and knew him to be precise. I myself do not think twice about it when speaking myself. I would never answer "25 %" if asked about a percentage. SignatureBertel, Denmark Bertel Lund Hansen: > You are computing a percentage. That is not what we are talking > about. We are talking about whether it is correct to say that "a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If one says that a percentage is 5 %, the value is 5 %/100 = > 0.0005. 5 % is a numerical value just like 5 is. Percentages are double Dutch to some people. SignatureJohn > John Varela skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > about. We are talking about whether it is correct to say that "a > percentage is x percent" or not. I say not. A "percentage" is a fraction, rate, or portion expressed as a number per hundred[1]. "Five percent" or "5%" is a fraction, rate, or portion expressed as a number per hundred. I fail to see what the problem is. The portion, expressed as a rate per hundred is five per hundred. Would you say that the portion, expressed as a rate per hundred, is five? [1] MWCD11: a part of a whole expressed in hundredths OED: A rate, number or proportion in each hundred; a quantity or amount reckoned as so many hundredth parts of another, esp. of that regarded as the whole. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |"Revolution" has many definitions. 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |From the looks of this, I'd say Palo Alto, CA 94304 |"going around in circles" comes |closest to applying... kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Richard M. Hartman (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Mark Brader skrev: > > No, that is wrong. A percentage of 42.7 % means 0.427 % > No, it doesn't. You haven't convinced me - and you can't. SignatureBertel, Denmark > In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the > medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Do you see the "medal" version often? (Hearing it doesn't really > count -- "metal" and "medal" can sound very much alike.) Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an "aspirin regiment"? SignatureSkitt (AmE) marching on ... >> In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the >> medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an "aspirin >regiment"? Must be one of those new Afghan ones whose training isn't quite complete. SignatureJohn Skitt filted: >Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an "aspirin >regiment"? No, but I've heard people talk about being on an aspirin regime....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Skitt filted: >> >>Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an "aspirin >>regiment"? > > No, but I've heard people talk about being on an aspirin regime....r It's "aspirin regimen": <http://lowdoseaspirinregimen.com/> and <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regimen> reg⋅i⋅men –noun 1. Medicine/Medical. a regulated course, as of diet, exercise, or manner of living, intended to preserve or restore health or to attain some result. (But maybe you knew that...) SignatureLes (BrE) >> Skitt filted: >>> Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an >>> "aspirin regiment"? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > (But maybe you knew that...) Well, yes. That's why I brought it up. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>> Skitt filted: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Well, yes. That's why I brought it up. Yes, aspirins can be hard to swallow. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > Skitt filted: >> Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk about an >> "aspirin regiment"? > > No, but I've heard people talk about being on an aspirin regime....r That can be excused as an older usage. See 1 a and 1 b below. From M-W Online: Main Entry: re·gime Variant(s): also ré·gime \ra-'zhem, ri- also ri-'jem\ Function: noun Etymology: French régime, from Old French regimen, regime, from Late Latin regimin-, regimen Date: 1776 1 a : regimen 1 b : a regular pattern of occurrence or action (as of seasonal rainfall) c : the characteristic behavior or orderly procedure of a natural phenomenon or process 2 a : mode of rule or management b : a form of government <a socialist regime> c : a government in power d : a period of rule SignatureSkitt (AmE) Skitt wrote on Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:19:34 -0800: >> Skitt filted: >>> Have you noticed the TV ads (and Web articles) that talk >>> about an "aspirin regiment"? >> >> No, but I've heard people talk about being on an aspirin >> regime....r > That can be excused as an older usage. See 1 a and 1 b below. > From M-W Online: > Main Entry: re·gime > Variant(s): also ré·gime \ra-'zhem, ri- also ri-'jem\ > Function: noun > Etymology: French régime, from Old French regimen, regime, from Late > Latin regimin-, regimen > Date: 1776 > 1 a : regimen 1 b : a regular pattern of occurrence or action (as of > seasonal rainfall) c : the characteristic behavior or > orderly procedure of a natural phenomenon or process > 2 a : mode of rule or management b : a form of government <a > socialist regime>> c : a government in power d : a period of rule Yes, John Knox, "The Monstrous Regiment of Women" (1558, I think), not Terry Pratchett. He was referring to Queens Mary and Elizabeth. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > Yes, John Knox, "The Monstrous Regiment of Women" (1558, I think), not > Terry Pratchett. He was referring to Queens Mary and Elizabeth. And was indignant (I am told) when the latter took it personally. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: The political animal is a mammal: it needs rigidity on :|| ||: the inside and flexibility on the outside. :|| Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:31:59 -0500 from Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net>: > > Yes, John Knox, "The Monstrous Regiment of Women" (1558, I think), not > > Terry Pratchett. He was referring to Queens Mary and Elizabeth. > > And was indignant (I am told) when the latter took it personally. People who are rude often seem unreasonably incensed when called on their rudeness. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... > In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to > the medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Do you see the "medal" version often? (Hearing it doesn't really > count -- "metal" and "medal" can sound very much alike.) Was it by any chance a story about the Olympics? >> In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to >> the medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > Was it by any chance a story about the Olympics? Maybe, but all I know for sure is that the article was about some sport (maybe even a high school sport). In any case, I can't find the paper now to confirm anything. Nor could I find the phrase in the newspaper's online edition. Had it been a play on words, I probably would have chuckled (or groaned). But sometimes things go right over my head -- especially when sports ("the toy department of life") is the topic. (Also, this particular newspaper probably does not have a proofreader -- or at least does not have a good proofreader. I've found usage errors in the paper before. But what the heck; it carries a lot of local news.) Note: Sorry to CDB. My first reply went to him, since I mistakenly clicked on "reply to sender" rather than on "reply to group." It's been a strange day. SignatureMaria Conlon, signing off for afew days. Thanks to those who replied to this thread. [topic] > Note: Sorry to CDB. My first reply went to him, since I mistakenly > clicked on "reply to sender" rather than on "reply to group." It's > been a strange day. No furries. Do it myself, from time to time. Apologies to the many I have no doubt offended the same way, without even noticing. >> In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to >> the medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >Was it by any chance a story about the Olympics? A headline for a report of winning cyclist in the summer Olympics could use the phrase "pedal to the medal". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Maria Conlon wrote:\ > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > A headline for a report of winning cyclist in the summer Olympics > could use the phrase "pedal to the medal". Googling gives a couple of intentional puns* first, and then a long string of solecistic uses. http://news.google.ca/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=%22pedal+to+th e+medal%22 http://preview.tinyurl.com/ydyne5c *The Haldimand (Ont) Review and the Truro (NS) Daily News; and me. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Part of our tragically ill-conceived "Pwn the Podium" strategy. > *The Haldimand (Ont) Review and the Truro (NS) Daily News; and me. > Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Part of our tragically ill-conceived > "Pwn the Podium" strategy. You do - if a friend may be allowed to make this observation - seem to have deliberately set out to do a lot of harm to a previously amiable reputation. SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk >> *The Haldimand (Ont) Review and the Truro (NS) Daily News; and me. >> Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Part of our tragically ill-conceived [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to have deliberately set out to do a lot of harm to a previously > amiable reputation. You say truly, except for the "you" part. The policy of the present government is basically the Dubya approach writ small. They don't seem to be taking into account a number of practical differences between our country and his (see "Stupid Party"). The "you" part: because of certain deficiencies in our political arrangements, the present government is able to control the House with a minority of a little less than half the seats; and these were obtained by winning slightly fewer than two-fifths of the ballots cast in the last election. Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:34:08 -0500 from Maria Conlon <conlonmaria@sbcglobal.net>: > In yesterday's paper, there was a story wherein "put the pedal to the > medal" was used. My first response was to wonder if the newspaper's > proofreader (or copy editor) had been laid off (or terminated) in these > hard times. But then I thought: Is the "medal" version a common > alternate? I don't know the name of the phenomenon (anyone?), but to me it parallels the illiterate back-formation "should of" for "should have". "Metal" and "medal" sound similar (especially when spoken by most Americans), and people who don't think about what they're writing write what they hear instead of what makes sense. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... |
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