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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010What quickly did John read today?
According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the question sentence "What quickly did John read today?" (With stress on quickly) is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! > According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, > the question sentence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there > anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! You say "with stress" on the word "quickly". Is the word also separated from the rest of the sentence by pauses or a change in tone? The only sense I can make of it would be written "What, quickly, did John read today?". In that reading, "quickly" is a shortened form of what is really another sentence inserted into the first one: "What -- tell me in a few words -- did John read today?" It's more in the style of spoken English than of written English. I suppose you could make a case that the question as originally composed could be about performing Shakespeare (What [interpretation of the character Mistress] Quickly did John read today?), but that's pretty far-fetched. > > According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, > > the question sentence [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > of the character Mistress] Quickly did John read today?), but that's > pretty far-fetched. What I mean by stress is simple stress, without a pause, just as Arcadian Rises illustrated. Thanks for the reply. > According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the > question sentence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there > anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! Not me (wherever the stress). I had to read it a couple of times to stop myself automatically substituting other words like "how" for "what". The thing is, with a word in the position of "quickly", you expect a noun, so what is a quickly?  SignatureRob Bannister >According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the >question sentence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there >anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! What's it supposed to mean? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the > >question sentence [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What's it supposed to mean? I'd like to know that too. As written, it doesn't look like grammatical English to me. -- Jerry Friedman > > >According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the > > >question sentence [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Jerry Friedman I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the sentence "what quickly did John read?" So I don't really know what the sentence is supposed to mean. However, as pointed out by some replies, this sentence can just mean "What did John read QUICKLY?" with perhaps the presupposition that he also read something slowly today, or he habitually reads stuff quickly (I'm not sure). Braininvat braininvat: > I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the sentence > "what quickly did John read?" So I don't really know what the sentence > is supposed to mean. However, as pointed out by some replies, this > sentence can just mean "What did John read QUICKLY?" with perhaps the > presupposition that he also read something slowly today, or he > habitually reads stuff quickly (I'm not sure). I'll reserve judgement on whether "What *quickly* did John read?" can mean "What did John read quickly?", but I don't think the other replies support the claim that it can. The ones I have read seem to say that the sentence could be acceptable if "quickly" were separate from the main clause, as in, What - (tell me) quickly! - did John read? SignatureJohn > > > >According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the > > > >question sentence [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - "Who today did you see?" is just as bad. "Whom did you see today?" Even if John read quickly, "What quickly did John read today?" is not the way to say it. The sentence as you gave it must be the two- sentence thing mentioned here, with the speaker wanting the answer quickly, choop-chop, right now, answer me this minute! Nothing to do with John's reading speed. If you want to find out what John read today at a faster rate than usual, ask "What did John read quickly today?" >> > What's it supposed to mean? >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >also read something slowly today, or he habitually reads stuff quickly >(I'm not sure). It can also mean that he read a different quickly every day. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the > sentence... Might one ask which language you were thinking in when you thought of this weird sentence, which is no better than the quickly one. SignatureRob Bannister > > I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the > > sentence... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rob Bannister Ok. I guess I do have to provide more context for my asking about this kind of question. I know that "What possibly does John know?" is ok. Then I found someone says "Who today did John see?" is also ok for somebody. That's why I go on to ask whether "What quickly did John read today?" is ok. Perhaps these three sentences have different properties, but I do find some (American) speakers accept all three of them. [ ... ] > "What possibly does John know?" > > is ok. Says who? It doesn't seem OK to me. > Then I found someone says > > "Who today did John see?" > > is also ok for somebody. Not for me it isn't. Signatureathel > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Not for me it isn't. Nor me. They're the kind of thing we might occasionally let slip in careless speech, but they're strange, and far from correct. All would be marked wrong in an exam. SignatureMike. >> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > careless speech, but they're strange, and far from correct. All would > be marked wrong in an exam. Although they are not anything I would normally say, I'd stop short of calling them ungrammatical. The syntax still seems connected, somehow, and it sounds meaningful but slightly strange. It is the kind of word order that is sometimes used in verse but isn't normal in speech or prose. I wouldn't mark them wrong in an exam if the adverbs were enclosed in commas. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> > I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the >> > sentence... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > do find some (American) speakers > accept all three of them. I believe that early on in this thread someone emphasized the need for an indication of pauses to separate the out-of-place adverb. In speaking, it is sometimes necessary to emphasize timing or placement of the action "on the fly" and, thought processes being what they are, awkwardnesses are accepted. Those awkwardnesses, however, should be indicated with commas (or sometimes dashes) in verbatim transcriptions. They are NOT really usual or comfortable usages or word orders. >>> I was thinking of "Who today did you see?" When I "coined" the >>> sentence... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > is ok. I can assure you that it is not OK. I could accept (as quoted conversation) "What - possibly - could John know?", but it certainly is not normal English, and "Who today did John see?" sounds worse. Then I found someone says > "Who today did John see?" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > do find some (American) speakers > accept all three of them. SignatureRob Bannister >>> According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the >>> question sentence [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Jerry Friedman I assumed it meant "What did John read today quickly?" - a strange sentence, to be sure, but possible. I wonder what he read today slowly and whether he read anything at normal speed. SignatureRob Bannister > According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the > question sentence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there > anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! Yes, only if it reads like this: What "Quickly" did John read today? He could have read "Quickly" no.38, or the D-575. Arcadian Rises filted: >> According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the >> question sentence [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >He could have read "Quickly" no.38, or the D-575. Or punctuated thus: "What--quickly!--did John read today?" You want to know *now* what he read and aren't about to sit around waiting for someone to put together a list....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >According to my survery of a couple of English speakers in the US, the >question sentence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is ungrammatical for most speakers, but acceptable to one. Is there >anyone here who accept this sentence as grammatical? Thanks! Since the stress is on quickly, the sentence is a demand. I believe it would be grammatical if the key word, quickly, were surrounded by commas, as follows: What, quickly, did John read today? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE |
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