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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010than is currently possible
I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. Here it is: "This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems earlier than is currently possible." Is something omitted in "than is currently possible"? I have difficulty explaining to my friend the grammatical structure behind this phrase. Please help me out, thanks! > I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I have difficulty explaining to my friend the grammatical > structure behind this phrase. Please help me out, thanks! It is correct as written. It means "This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems earlier than it is currently possible for us to detect genetic problems." The new knowledge has been studied and can be used to detect genetic problems earlier than the genetic problems can be detected using the usual methods. The sentence sounds better without all the stuff about detecting genetic problem being repeated.  SignatureCheryl >I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. >Here it is: > >"This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems >earlier than is currently possible." It's contradictory and meaningless. It says that you can detect problems before you can detect them, Perhaps what they meant to say is: 1. This knowledge will be able to be used to detect genetic problems earlier than is currently possible. OR 2. This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems earlier than was previously possible. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. >>Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >It's contradictory and meaningless. It doesn't seem contradictory and meaningless to me. >It says that you can detect problems before you can detect them, Not to me. It has meaning 1 below. Any apparent contradictoriness can be resolved by understanding that "knowledge can be used" implies that the knowledge is not yet used but can be in the future. >Perhaps what they meant to say is: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >2. This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems earlier than was >previously possible. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. >>> Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> > It doesn't seem contradictory and meaningless to me. Nor to me (and it's a commonplace way of writing). It has the meaning clearly set out earlier by Cheryl. athel In our last episode, <6abqn5tqhduml8qv3iuvq0uje1foc1dcfo@4ax.com>, the lovely and talented Steve Hayes broadcast on alt.usage.english: >>I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. >>Here it is: >> >>"This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems >>earlier than is currently possible." > It's contradictory and meaningless. > It says that you can detect problems before you can detect them, > Perhaps what they meant to say is: > 1. This knowledge will be able to be used to detect genetic problems earlier Whoa! "Knowledge will be able" one too many for me. Sure: I can throw a rock. A rock can be thrown. I am able to throw a rock. But, A rock is able to be thrown just doesn't seem to work. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> Warbama's Afghaninam day: 78 1885.9 hours since Warbama declared Viet Nam II. Warbama: An LBJ for the Twenty-First century. No hope. No change. > In our last episode, > <6abqn5tqhduml8qv3iuvq0uje1foc1dcfo@4ax.com>, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > just doesn't seem to work. True, but "will be able" is the only way we have of forming the future. SignatureRob Bannister > > Steve Hayes Yilaner <yilaner@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > >>> Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > True, but "will be able" is the only way we have of forming the future. I've seen sentences of the sort under examination called "double passive," and it's greatly to be avoided. And of course there are plenty of other ways we have of forming the future; here's one well-known example: "I leave for New York tomorrow." Reverting to the sentence under discussion, how about "This knowledge will be usable [can be used] to detect ..." That is, of course, only one (actually two) of several write-arounds. Lawyers are particularly vulnerable to the siren song of the double passive, Much of what results skirts the edge of nonsense. SignatureBob Lieblich Drawing on first-hand experience [...] > Lawyers are particularly vulnerable to the siren song of the double > passive, Much of what results skirts the edge of nonsense. Some time ago we had some amusing chatter on the formation, "He must have been being interviewed." SignatureMike. Mike Lyle filted: >[...] >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Some time ago we had some amusing chatter on the formation, "He must >have been being interviewed." Amusing shading into dreary and thence into infuriating....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I have difficulty explaining to my friend the grammatical > structure behind this phrase. Please help me out, thanks! It's perfectly OK as it is, but it would be possible (though certainly not necessary) to add "what" after "than". Signatureathel > I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I have difficulty explaining to my friend the grammatical > structure behind this phrase. Please help me out, thanks! If you're asking about traditional structure, I would say that "earlier than is currently possible" is an adverb (earlier) modifying the passive infinitive "be used", followed by an adverbial relative clause (than [it] is currently possible [that it be used]) modifying "earlier". ObBun: Comments? > I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is something omitted in "than is currently possible"? That part is OK. "Than they can now." > I have difficulty explaining to my friend the grammatical > structure behind this phrase. Please help me out, thanks! Do you have a problem with this one (inspired by Olympics TV): "She can skate better than she has up to now." Meaning, (in someone's opinion): theoretically, she is able to skate better than what she's shown so far. The apparent contradiction in your example may lie in the difference between pure knowledge and practical medical procedures. There's going to be a delay in developing techniques, getting them approved, training medical personnel, etc. Only after it goes through all that will the "knowledge" truly be able to detect genetic problems, and at an earlier stage of illness (or life) than is currently possible. They could have said, "This knowledge will someday [or eventually or soon] be used to..." SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. > > Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > -- > Best -- Donna Richoux The grammatical structure is a Comparative structure. A Comparative structure consists of two parts, the Item Being Compared, and the Standard to Compare By, in that order. These are normally separated by "than", and may be words, phrases, clauses, or complex structures. Somewhere in the Item Being Compared there must be either a comparative adjective or adverb, or the word "more". The two parts should have similar structures if possible, and material that is repeated in both may be deleted under rule in the Standard to Compare By. In the sentence provided, > "This knowledge can be used to detect genetic problems > earlier than is currently possible." The Item Being Compared is "to detect genetic problems earlier"; the Standard to Compare By is the material following that. There have been some deletions, which, when restored, make the underlying form something like "... to detect genetic problems at a time which is earlier than the time which is currently needed to detect genetic disorders" The difficult part here is that "early" refers to a time, which is not specifically mentioned in either clause, for various reasons. I'm sure this is more than anyone would really want to know about one sentence, but comparatives (and their cousins superlatives) are among the most complex and difficult constructions in English. It's not surprising you'd have problems; many native speakers have problems with these constructions. -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler "Thinking is more interesting than knowing, but less interesting than looking." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe [...] > The grammatical structure is a Comparative structure. > > A Comparative structure consists of two parts, the > Item Being Compared, and the Standard to Compare By, > in that order. These are normally separated by "than", and > may be words, phrases, clauses, or complex structures. Faster than I could type came the quotation "...deeper than ever plummet sounded I'll drown my book." [...] SignatureMike. >> I find a sentence in a magazine quite puzzling to me. >> Here it is: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Meaning, (in someone's opinion): theoretically, she is able to skate > better than what she's shown so far. That is fine and shows the problem with the original sentence. If you rephrased the above to reflect the original, you end up with the nonsensical "She can skate better than she can currently". I agree with Steve in that the "can" should be changed, if not to a future, then to "could". SignatureRob Bannister |
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