Eponyms - who is named after whom?
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Jonathan Morton - 18 Feb 2010 21:51 GMT "The Times" today tells us that "[Alexander] McQueen's eponymous brand struggled to make a profit". Surely that would only be correct if Mr McQueen had been named after his brand - which seems unlikely. Or am I wrong?
What is the opposite of "eponymous"?
Regards
Jonathan
Evan Kirshenbaum - 18 Feb 2010 22:44 GMT "Jonathan Morton" <jonathan.mortonbutignorethispart@btinternet.com> writes:
> "The Times" today tells us that "[Alexander] McQueen's eponymous > brand struggled to make a profit". Surely that would only be correct > if Mr McQueen had been named after his brand - which seems > unlikely. Or am I wrong? > > What is the opposite of "eponymous"? MWCD11 gives both senses for "eponym":
1 : one for whom or which something is or is believed to be named 2 : a name (as of a drug or a disease) based on or derived from an eponym
and defines "eponymous" as "of, relating to, or being an eponym".
"Eponymous brand" first shows up in Google Books in 1917:
St. Thomas lives--or starves--on bay rum and foreign trade. St. Croix has a healthy industry in sugar and the eponymous brand of rum, and a promising fruit-growing experiment; yet it contrives to remain insolvent.
_Munsey's Magazine_, June, 1917
although, to be fair, it doesn't show up again until 1997. Others I see:
1976: eponymous disease 1977: eponymous album 1993: eponymous buidling 1993: eponymous method 1995: eponymous building societies 1997: eponymous show
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Donna Richoux - 19 Feb 2010 12:42 GMT [snip discussion of "eponymous"]
> "Eponymous brand" first shows up in Google Books in 1917: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 1995: eponymous building societies > 1997: eponymous show It does seem to be a recent thing, doesn't it? I looked through the New Yorker database, which only finds it from 1987 on. That one is from my favorite writer John McPhee:
... than a certain red-trimmed cream-hulled vessel called Mississippi, bearing Major General Thomas Sands. Each year, in late summer or early fall, the Mississippi comes down its eponymous river ...
So that's a case where the boat is named for the river, so the river is what is called eponymous. The source of the name. That shows up again here, in 2000:
outside Coiffure Salon Martine the eponymous hairdresser and her friends sat in white plastic chairs
The hairdresser is the source of the name of the shop, so the hairdresser is what is eponymous. So I think that is the original use.
But it also starts showing up the other way around. From 2000:
Rat Press, a subsidiary of Rat Entertainment, an eponymous entity founded by Brett Ratner
Brett Ratner is the source of the name, but it is the "entity" that is called eponymous.
Skipping some confusing examples involving "eponymously named" and other constructions (was a restaurant named for a cocktail or vice versa? I don't know).
[2005 restaurant review] Shake Shack ... the eponymous shakes are classic
There the [eponymous] shake is the source of the restaurant name.
[2006 restaurant review] Morimoto ... Chef Masaharu Morimoto ... who makes nightly rounds in his eponymous restaurant to scattered applause So there is the other way around, the chef is the source of the name of the restaurant, but it is the restaurant that is labeled "eponymous".
2006 Kenny Shopsin's eponymous restaurant,
2008 Ligaya Mishan reviews Chop Suey [restaurant], whose tongue-in-cheek name has little to do with the actual menu: it's not Chinese, and the eponymous dish isn't served here
What I am coming to think is that the current definition really has almost nothing to do with the source of the name, what was named in honor of what (or "after" or "for"), but simply meaning "of the same name."
The chef and his eponymous restaurant -- they have the same name. The boat and the eponymous river -- they have the same name.
It's easier that way. One is named for the other, but the word "eponymous" no longer tells you which was named for which.
Didn't we come to the same conclusion with "namesake"?
Look at this one --
2004 John Heinz -- the heir to the eponymous condiment fortune
The man wasn't the source of the condiment name -- that would have been his grandfather or something. The condiment wasn't the source of this man's name -- though it was the source of the *fortune*, does that count? What we do know is the man and the condiment have the same name, and it's not just a coincidence.
So "of the same name" is not enough, you have to imply something somewhere was named after something.
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sjdevnull@yahoo.com - 18 Feb 2010 23:15 GMT On Feb 18, 4:51 pm, "Jonathan Morton" <jonathan.mortonbutignorethisp...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "The Times" today tells us that "[Alexander] McQueen's eponymous brand > struggled to make a profit". Surely that would only be correct if Mr McQueen > had been named after his brand - which seems unlikely. Or am I wrong? As noted by Evan Kirshenbaum, eponymous can mean either the thing named after or the thing whose name is being aped.
In my personal experience, by far the most common usage is in the phrase "the band's eponymous album" or variations thereof, meaning a band's self-titled album--that's obviously in the same direction as "eponymous brand". That wording is so common in the music media that R.E.M. poked fun of it by naming their 1988 compilation "Eponymous".
annily - 19 Feb 2010 00:03 GMT > On Feb 18, 4:51 pm, "Jonathan Morton" > <jonathan.mortonbutignorethisp...@btinternet.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "eponymous brand". That wording is so common in the music media that > R.E.M. poked fun of it by naming their 1988 compilation "Eponymous". That usage is so common that I wouldn't have even thought to question the original quote from The Times.
 Signature Long-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia, which may or may not influence my opinions.
R H Draney - 19 Feb 2010 07:07 GMT sjdevnull@yahoo.com filted:
>In my personal experience, by far the most common usage is in the >phrase "the band's eponymous album" or variations thereof, meaning a >band's self-titled album--that's obviously in the same direction as >"eponymous brand". That wording is so common in the music media that >R.E.M. poked fun of it by naming their 1988 compilation "Eponymous". ObFeebleAttemptToMakeUpForTheLackOfA2009SDC: What artist (performer, not band) has released two eponymous albums?...
(The answer is cooked, but at least one of the answers is Chinese and has released albums with both an English and a Chinese name; I'm thinking of a different one)....r
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Glenn Knickerbocker - 19 Feb 2010 15:17 GMT >ObFeebleAttemptToMakeUpForTheLackOfA2009SDC: What artist (performer, not band) >has released two eponymous albums?... Peter Gabriel made four of them before Geffen insisted on giving the fourth one a subtitle.
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Glenn Knickerbocker - 19 Feb 2010 22:37 GMT I wrote:
> >ObFeebleAttemptToMakeUpForTheLackOfA2009SDC: What artist (performer, not band) > >has released two eponymous albums?... > Peter Gabriel made four of them before Geffen insisted on giving the > fourth one a subtitle. Before that, you might also count "Runt" and "Todd."
¬R
Mike Barnes - 19 Feb 2010 16:24 GMT Jonathan Morton <jonathan.mortonbutignorethispart@btinternet.com>:
>"The Times" today tells us that "[Alexander] McQueen's eponymous brand >struggled to make a profit". Surely that would only be correct if Mr McQueen >had been named after his brand - which seems unlikely. Or am I wrong? The word is widely used the other way round. In medicine there are many eponymous diseases (Alzheimer's), eponymous body parts (Adam's apple), etc.
See, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymous_diseases
 Signature Mike Barnes Cheshire, England
tsuidf - 19 Feb 2010 19:39 GMT > Jonathan Morton <jonathan.mortonbutignorethisp...@btinternet.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > See, for example: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymous_diseases I had nothing to do with its establishment, but I still think of the rather nice Hotel Stephanie near here as 'Hotel Eponyme' after a friend said we'd meet up there. I do not, however, think of the tram stop of the same name as 'l'arret eponyme'.
cheers, S. in B.
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 19 Feb 2010 20:01 GMT >> Jonathan Morton <jonathan.mortonbutignorethisp...@btinternet.com>: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >friend said we'd meet up there. I do not, however, think of the tram >stop of the same name as 'l'arret eponyme'. Sorry about this:
...The girl from Eponyma goes walking...
 Signature Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english)
Mike Lyle - 19 Feb 2010 20:59 GMT [...]
>> I had nothing to do with its establishment, but I still think of the >> rather nice Hotel Stephanie near here as 'Hotel Eponyme' after a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ...The girl from Eponyma goes walking... Well, if you can have that, it allows me to rephrase my old TS.
"I bet that waxing hurt!" said Tom, Eponymously.
IGMC
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Athel Cornish-Bowden - 19 Feb 2010 19:07 GMT > "The Times" today tells us that "[Alexander] McQueen's eponymous brand > struggled to make a profit". Surely that would only be correct if Mr McQueen > had been named after his brand - which seems unlikely. Or am I wrong? I don't see anything wrong with it (other than that I think "eponymous" is a word we could easily manage without).
 Signature athel
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