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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Vachss: she dropped him for
Hello: "Twenty-five to fifty" is of course the length of the sentence, but what does "she dropped him for ... " exactly mean? Is it "charged?" --- [Wolfe is a District Attorney] Wolfe had tried the case against the dirtbag when they finally caught him. She dropped him for twenty-five to fifty [...] Andrew Vachss, Strega, p. 122 ---- -- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Wolfe had tried the case against the dirtbag when they finally caught > him. She dropped him for twenty-five to fifty [...] I would expect "tried" to refer to the judge rather than counsel. In which case "dropped him..." would be "sent him down" (in BrE) for that number of years in prison. Regards Jonathan > > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > case "dropped him..." would be "sent him down" (in BrE) for that number of > years in prison. I think we Americans can use "tried the case" for "took one side of the case". As Wolfe is a DA, she brought about his conviction ("dropped him") and the resulting sentence was for twenty-five to fifty years. -- Jerry Friedman > On Feb 20, 10:19 am, "Jonathan Morton" wrote: > > > "Twenty-five to fifty" is of course the length of the sentence, but > > > what does "she dropped him for ... " exactly mean? Is it "charged?" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ("dropped him") and the resulting sentence was for twenty-five to > fifty years. Thank you all. Marius Hancu >I think we Americans can use "tried the case" for "took one side of >the case". As Wolfe is a DA, she brought about his conviction --and I would say "dropped him" is in the figurative sense of knocking him to the ground in a fistfight. ¬R http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/arkville.html "Doesn't that shred your buns?" --T.M. Pederson > On Feb 20, 10:19 am, "Jonathan Morton" wrote: > > > "Twenty-five to fifty" is of course the length of the sentence, but > > > what does "she dropped him for ... " exactly mean? Is it "charged?" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ("dropped him") and the resulting sentence was for twenty-five to > fifty years. My feeling is that "dropped," as used by Vachss, means both "indicted" and "brought about his conviction": ---- [A D.A. speaking:] "We're gonna to drop her -- but not soon. We're just beginning to trace pictures back to her." p. 268 ---- Marius Hancu >> On Feb 20, 10:19 am, "Jonathan Morton" > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >p. 268 >---- I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". OED: send down. d. To dispatch or commit to prison by sentence. Freq. pass. slang (orig. U.S.). 1840 Picayune (New Orleans) 2 Aug. 2/5 She scorned to find surety in $500 to keep the peace, so she was sent down. 1880 G. A. SALA Amer. Revisited (1882) I. v. 85 They were ‘sent down’ for ten days. ....  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > down' for ten days. > .... "Orig. U.S."? I thought "sent down" was Oxbridgian for being suspended or expelled from school. SignatureBest - Donna Richoux >> I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "Orig. U.S."? I thought "sent down" was Oxbridgian for being suspended > or expelled from school. It's very old fashioned, although I suspect that the traditional universities still use it in formal procedings. I don't think it existed at Manchester even in the 70s. But being caught without trousers in the quad (if we had a quad) would probably not have been a serious offence. Up to a point, anyway. SignatureDavid >>> I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> "Orig. U.S."? I thought "sent down" was Oxbridgian for being suspended >> or expelled from school. Me too. >It's very old fashioned, although I suspect that the traditional >universities still use it in formal procedings. I don't think it >existed at Manchester even in the 70s. But being caught without >trousers in the quad (if we had a quad) would probably not have been a >serious offence. Up to a point, anyway. "Very old fashioned" and you're talking about the seventies? How wonderful it must be to be young. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs, An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE > > I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "Orig. U.S."? I thought "sent down" was Oxbridgian for being suspended > or expelled from school. Yes, but in the prison-related meaning this is confirmed in: ---- The concise new Partridge dictionary of slang and unconventional English - Page 567 Tom Dalzell, Terry Victor - Language Arts & Disciplines - 2007 - 720 pages send down verb to commit someone to prison US, 1840 ---- Marius Hancu >> I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >"Orig. U.S."? I thought "sent down" was Oxbridgian for being suspended >or expelled from school. That too. I have heard a Br "explanation" of the imprisonment origin of "send down" as being that in a courthouse the holding cells are beneath the courtroom so when someone is sentenced to imprisonment he or she is literally sent down. This does not work too well when the cells are on the same level as or above the courtroom. The explanation does fit what is possibly England's most famous court building, the Old Bailey: http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/The-old-bailey.jsp 1907 Current Building .... Each courtroom had a spacious dock, enclosed by low partitions, for the defendants, with a staircase leading directly below to the holding cells. How times change: There were now separate rooms for male and female witnesses, and another for witnesses of "the better class". So in the absence of evidence for "sent down" having been invented independently at the Old Bailey or a similarly constructed court the US origin stands. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Feb 23, 7:07 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >> I wonder whether there is any connection between "drop" and "send down". > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > The explanation does fit what is possibly England's most famous court > building, the Old Bailey Oh, great, now I have a good mnemonic for this. Thanks. Marius Hancu >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Jonathan I have noticed that in AmE "tried a case" (etc.) is sometimes used of counsel. For instance: http://www.essglaw.com/new_counsel.html You and your attorney have worked together to get a case ready for trial. Trial is on, and the payoff time is near. Your attorney returns to the office with the months of anticipation replaced by a look of defeat. The case has been lost, and must be appealed. The question now is who should do that appeal? The answer should be not the attorney that tried the case, and preferably an experienced and skilled appellate advocate. The Attorney Who Tried The Case Should Not Handle The Appeal The attorney who handled the case in the trial court should not take the appeal. The first rule of persuasion is to place yourself in the position of the person making the decision. The attorney that tried the case will not be able to do this. On appeal, the appellate court judges will be reviewing a cold record. A new attorney that did not try the case will be viewing the same record as the appellate court judges. That new attorney will, therefore, be able to place himself or herself in the same position as the decision makers. The trial attorney will never be able to do that. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Andrew Vachss, Strega, p. 122 >---- Sent him down for ... SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > Hello: > > "Twenty-five to fifty" is of course the length of the sentence, but > what does "she dropped him for ... " exactly mean? Is it "charged?" > > --- Like Mr Z said: The police department hounded him, they called him Mr. Smith They got him on conspiracy, they were never sure who with "What time is it" said the judge to Joey when they met "Five to ten" said Joey. The judge says, "That's exactly what you get". (Joey, Bob Dylan) DC -- |
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