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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Frost: his long scythe
Hello: The referent of "his" in "his long scythe" can't be neither the dawn nor the "butterfly," but most probably the early man who had mowed the grass, but I couldn't find any grammatical device which produces that. --- THE TUFT OF FLOWERS I went to turn the grass once after one Who mowed it in the dew before the sun. ... The butterfly and I had lit upon, Nevertheless, a message from the dawn, That made me hear the wakening birds around, And hear his long scythe whispering to the ground, And feel a spirit kindred to my own; So that henceforth I worked no more alone; But glad with him, I worked as with his aid ... Robert Frost, p. 22 http://www.reelyredd.com/frost-tuft-flowers.htm --- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Thanks. > Marius Hancu I don't know if you need a grammatical device - there's no one else the 'he' could refer to other than the man with the scythe. It's probably not accidental that one of the commonest symbols of death is a skeleton carrying a scythe. I'm beginning to think that either Frost wrote a lot about death, of I have death on my mind a lot and am seeing references to it everywhere.  SignatureCheryl >> The referent of "his" in >> "his long scythe" [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > of I have death on my mind a lot and am seeing references to it > everywhere. It's definitely there. All flesh is grass, man cometh up and is cut down like a flower, and the butterfly is the soul as far back as the Greeks. The poem is about life and death, and God the reaper, and man the gleaner. As well as the RL stuff, of course. > > The referent of "his" in > > "his long scythe" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > But glad with him, I worked as with his aid > > ... > I'm beginning to think that either Frost wrote a lot about death He himself and the whole family were quite depressive and had some serious reasons: out of six children, only two survived him. Neither did his wife. Marius Hancu > He himself and the whole family were quite depressive and had some > serious reasons: out of six children, only two survived him. Neither > did his wife. I hope you don't mind a correction, Marius. There's something not quite right about that construction. 'Only two survived him' is phrased as a positive, whereas 'Neither' needs to have a negative polarity trigger. You could say instead: '..., four did not survive him. Neither did his wife.' or '..., four predeceased him. So did his wife.' SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > > He himself and the whole family were quite depressive and had some > > serious reasons: out of six children, only two survived him. Neither [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > '..., four predeceased him. So did his wife.' As a matter of fact, I appreciate such interventions. I see your point here. Thanks. Marius Hancu >> He himself and the whole family were quite depressive and had some >> serious reasons: out of six children, only two survived him. Neither [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > '..., four predeceased him. So did his wife.' I don't think I've ever seen "predeceased" outside of a context of wills or other legal documents. I'd go with "died before he did". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If only some crazy scientist 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |somewhere would develop a device Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that would allow us to change the |channel on our televisions...... kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | --"lazarus" (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > I don't think I've ever seen "predeceased" outside of a context of > wills or other legal documents. I'd go with "died before he did". You haven't read my local paper - every obit uses it. I always get a laugh out of the obit for a person who died at 92 and they that state his parents predeceased him. >> I don't think I've ever seen "predeceased" outside of a context of >> wills or other legal documents. I'd go with "died before he did". > > You haven't read my local paper - every obit uses it. I always get a > laugh out of the obit for a person who died at 92 and they that state > his parents predeceased him. Similarly in papers here, though it is more usually about spouses or siblings than parents. You also see it in biographies and the like. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Robert Frost, p. 22 > http://www.reelyredd.com/frost-tuft-flowers.htm 1. Grammar suggests the long scythe belongs to the dawn (personified at least enough to send a message.) This is no more imprecise (ambiguous, suggestive) than much other Frost poetry. 2. In English poetry the word scythe often evokes two ideas: 1 = "All flesh is as grass" and many similar biblical images of the shortness and fragility of life; 2 = the figure of Death as a skeleton wielding a scythe. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > > The referent of "his" in > > "his long scythe" [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > to the dawn (personified at least enough to send a > message.) That's what I said. Thanks for the confirmation. > This is no more imprecise (ambiguous, > suggestive) than much other Frost poetry. OK, then:-) > 2. In English poetry the word scythe often evokes > two ideas: 1 = "All flesh is as grass" and many > similar biblical images of the shortness and > fragility of life; 2 = the figure of Death as a skeleton > wielding a scythe. Thank you all. Marius Hancu >>> The referent of "his" in >>> "his long scythe" [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > That's what I said. Thanks for the confirmation. I disagree strongly. The message is "from the dawn" because that's when the mower "wrote" it, but there are plenty of indications that there was a real mower there, at work before sunrise -- on one level of the poem, at least. Mention of him is quite close enough to the line in question to provide the antecedent for "his": the lines just before the ones you quote are The mower in the dew had loved them thus, By leaving them to flourish, not for us, Nor yet to draw one thought of ours to him. But from sheer morning gladness at the brim. [...] > >>> The referent of "his" in > >>> "his long scythe" [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > [...] AOL. -- Jerry Friedman |
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