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Why does it hear differently?

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Masa - 26 Feb 2010 14:02 GMT
http://www.lightstriking.com/test/19.wav

Accoring to scripts, it says: keep the towns safe

But what comes my eays is "keep new my towns safe".
I couldn't catch "the" firmly.

Maybe, weekly pronounced "the" melts into the other words.

What I want to confirm is that you really hear: keep the towns safe.
as the scripts say.
http://www.cdlponline.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=activity1&topicID=1&storyID=174
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 26 Feb 2010 14:53 GMT
>http://www.lightstriking.com/test/19.wav
>
>Accoring to scripts, it says: keep the towns safe
>
>But what comes my eays is "keep new my towns safe".
>I couldn't catch "the" firmly.

What I hear quite clearly is "keep the nearby towns safe".

>Maybe, weekly pronounced "the" melts into the other words.

"the" is pronounced with an indistinct vowel, "thuh", and is not
separated from "nearby".

>What I want to confirm is that you really hear: keep the towns safe.
>as the scripts say.
>http://www.cdlponline.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=activity1&topicID=1&storyID=174

The script says "They need to find a solution and a way to keep the
nearby towns safe" which is exactly what I hear.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Masa - 26 Feb 2010 15:25 GMT
Thanks.
Your comment has made me aware that I was looking at a wrong part in
the script, which part isn't what is in my
dictated tape.

1) keep the nearby towns safe
2) keep the towns safe

Those two sentneces are said there.

I was simply looking at 2)  with what my tape says 1)
I got it.
Tahnks again.
Peter Bennett - 26 Feb 2010 17:26 GMT
>Thanks.
>Your comment has made me aware that I was looking at a wrong part in
>the script, which part isn't what is in my
>dictated tape.
>
>1) keep the nearby towns safe

This is what the recording says, but "the" is extremely short, but
detectable.

Signature

Peter Bennett, VE7CEI  
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca  
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Masa - 26 Feb 2010 18:17 GMT
Thanks all your replies.

"nearby", that  sounds like "near my" to my ears yet.

After seeing that it's "nearby", I try to take it as nearby, but
before that, I couldn't hear but "near my".
sjdevnull@yahoo.com - 26 Feb 2010 19:43 GMT
> Thanks all your replies.
>
> "nearby", that  sounds like "near my" to my ears yet.

You can omit "that" from this sentence.

In colloquial AmE, using "yet" in this sense sounds stilted.  "Still"
would work better, especially if moved to the front of the
sentence--"nearby" still sounds like "near my" to my ears.  I don't
think this note applies in BrE but am unsure.
R H Draney - 26 Feb 2010 20:39 GMT
sjdevnull@yahoo.com filted:

>> Thanks all your replies.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>sentence--"nearby" still sounds like "near my" to my ears.  I don't
>think this note applies in BrE but am unsure.

Cue the old joke:

 A:  "What part of a woman's body is the 'yet'?"
 B:  "There's no part of a woman's body called that.  Where did you hear it?"
A:  "In a newspaper story about an armed robbery.  Says that a teller was shot
during the holdup, and the bullet was in her yet."

And the sequel:

 B:  "I reckon the 'yet' must be somewhere near the 'now'."
 A:  "How's that?"
 B:  "You know that song: 'I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now'?"

....r

Signature

"Oy!  A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle

Masa - 27 Feb 2010 00:11 GMT
Thanks for your advice.
I appreciate such a comment very much.

> In colloquial AmE, using "yet" in this sense sounds stilted.

In fact, I thought of usage of yet and still for a second  while
writing.
What I thought then is this:
yet is about future possibility, and  still is about what has been
going on.

And I felt that I was hoping I might be able to get a more proper
listening ability
to take "nearby" rightly, not like "near my" if I kept efforts.

Therefore, I put: "nearby", that  sounds like "near my" to my ears
yet.

But I'm not sure about real nusances of yet and still.
I might have done a wrong use of it.
Masa - 27 Feb 2010 00:14 GMT
> Thanks for your advice.
> I appreciate such a comment very much.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> But I'm not sure about real nusances of yet and still.
> I might have done a wrong use of it.

nusances → nuances
Peter Moylan - 27 Feb 2010 01:03 GMT
> Thanks all your replies.
>
> "nearby", that  sounds like "near my" to my ears yet.
>
> After seeing that it's "nearby", I try to take it as nearby, but
> before that, I couldn't hear but "near my".

Some years ago I gave some thought as to why Chinese speakers have so
much trouble distinguishing voiced and unvoiced consonants in spoken
English.  Now, I don't know enough about Japanese to know whether the
following applies to you, but I'll say it anyway in case it gives you
any insights.

Consider a pair like d/t.  These two consonants differ in both voicing
and aspiration.  In theory you can get four different consonants from
this "family":
  - unvoiced and unaspirated
  - unvoiced and aspirated
  - voiced and unaspirated
  - voiced and aspirated
In practice, it appears that this is too fine a subdivision to be
useful.  All of the languages I know about use at most two of the four
possibilities.

In English, we distinguish between the voiced version (d) and the
unvoiced version (t).  We don't much care about the aspiration - it
might vary between speakers, and so we don't listen to the aspiration.
This is an approximation, of course, because there are such things as a
voiced "t", but as a first approximation it works.

In Chinese, as I understand it, the important difference lies in the
aspiration, and nobody listens carefully to the voicing.  (I don't know
whether this is also true for Japanese.)  Thus, a native speaker
listening to English will hear distinctions that English speakers don't
notice, while not hearing distinctions that English speakers find
significant.  And similarly, of course, for an English speaker listening
to Chinese.

The above analysis would also apply to the b/p pair.

Your case is slightly different: problems in hearing the difference in
the b/m pair.  That one is trickier.  The consonants in "by" and "my"
are _both_ voiced.  The difference is that the consonant in "by" is also
slightly aspirated, although not as strongly aspirated as in "pie".
It's almost as if we are pushing the sound out in "by", but sucking it
in in "my".

I'm not certain that we English speakers listen to the aspiration when
hearing the difference between "by" and "my".  I think what we're
hearing is the sudden "release" explosion at the end of the "b": a
release that doesn't happen in the case of "m".

Signature

Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia.      http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Masa - 27 Feb 2010 01:27 GMT
Peter Moylan, thanks for your detailed comment.
I appreciate it.

We japanese always speak in combination of consonants and vowels.
Both are used in pairs.

For example,
the english word of dog is pronounced as "dogu".
house →  hausu
skate →  sukeito
cat  →  kyato

This way, every cosonant takes a vowel.
Therefore, we're not familiar to independently used consonants.
We tend to take such consonants independently put out
as quite suble sounds, which couldn't be
make out without enormously conscious efforts on the part of a
listener.
Masa - 27 Feb 2010 01:42 GMT
Further to put, as our linguistic experts say, we're conditioned to
translate your cosonants into our way
of pronouciation.
When one hear "dog", our brains put it into "dogu" automatically.
So your cosonants are buried in our vowels while hearing what is
spoken in
English.
It's quite a high barrier to get over for coming to listen English
properly, since
it requires us to correct our habit of changing English sounds on its
own.
R H Draney - 27 Feb 2010 03:35 GMT
Peter Moylan filted:

>Consider a pair like d/t.  These two consonants differ in both voicing
>and aspiration.  In theory you can get four different consonants from
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>useful.  All of the languages I know about use at most two of the four
>possibilities.

Doesn't Hindi do all four?...r

Signature

"Oy!  A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle

Derek Turner - 26 Feb 2010 17:06 GMT
>Why does it hear differently?

It doesn't: it sounds different.
 
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