Frost: market things

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Marius Hancu - 27 Feb 2010 08:52 GMT

Hello:

Several items:

1. "Market things." Could they mean the things to be _sold_ at the
market?

2. Does
"What help he is there's no depending on."
mean
"What help he is [if] there's no depending on [it]?"

3. Which "ditch" are we talking in:
"to ditch the meadow?"
There are at least two meanings:
----
1 a : to enclose with a ditch <a pasture hedged and ditched> b : to
dig a ditch in (as for drainage or irrigation)

M-W U
---

4. Does
"Daft on education"
mean
"stupid about the role of education"
or
"badly educated?"

5. Both
"caught up her hand"
and
"caught her hand"
seem in use. Any differences?

-----
She took the market things from Warren's arms
And set them on the porch,

...

What good is he? Who else will harbour him
At his age for the little he can do?
What help he is there's no depending on.
Off he goes always when I need him most.

...

"Anything? Mary, confess
He said he'd come to ditch the meadow for me."

...

He thinks young Wilson a likely lad, though daft
On education - you know how they fought
All through July under the blazing sun

...

Warren returned - too soon, it seemed to her,
Slipped to her side, caught up her hand and waited.

...

Robert Frost, p. 34
http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Frost/Death.htm
-----

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

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Donna Richoux - 27 Feb 2010 10:28 GMT

> 4. Does
> "Daft on education"
> mean
> "stupid about the role of education"
> or
> "badly educated?"

[snip]

> He thinks young Wilson a likely lad, though daft
> On education - you know how they fought
> All through July under the blazing sun

Neither, really. "Daft on" is like "crazy about" or probably the British
"mad on." Combination of "extremely enthusiastic about" and a suggestion
of being impaired in some way by such extreme enthusiasm.

It would have been common for a young man full of book learning to argue
with an older man whose life had been full of physical pursuits.

Signature

Best - Donna Richoux

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Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Feb 2010 12:28 GMT

>Hello:
>
>Several items:
>
>1. "Market things." Could they mean the things to be _sold_ at the
>market?

Possibly. The context does not make clear whether the "market things"
had been bought at a market or were to be sold at a market.

>2. Does
>"What help he is there's no depending on."
>mean
>"What help he is [if] there's no depending on [it]?"

He is of some help but is unreliable.

What help he is there's no depending on.
Off he goes always when I need him most.

>3. Which "ditch" are we talking in:
>"to ditch the meadow?"
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>M-W U
>---

An enclosing ditch is for drainage. In the absence of any suggestion to
the contrary I'd understand that the ditch would surround the meadow.

>4. Does
>"Daft on education"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>"caught her hand"
>seem in use. Any differences?

I'm not sure that there is any reliable distinction, but "caught up her
hand" suggests to me that he took hold of her hand and raised his and
her clasped hands, not necessarily into a "high" position but higher
than they had been.

>-----
>She took the market things from Warren's arms
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>Thanks.
>Marius Hancu

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

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Marius Hancu - 27 Feb 2010 16:06 GMT

On Feb 27, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> >Several items:
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> her clasped hands, not necessarily into a "high" position but higher
> than they had been.

Ah, I see that now.

> >-----
> >She took the market things from Warren's arms
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> >Warren returned - too soon, it seemed to her,
> >Slipped to her side, caught up her hand and waited.

Thank you all.
Marius Hancu

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Cheryl - 27 Feb 2010 12:35 GMT

> Hello:
>
> Several items:
>
> 1. "Market things." Could they mean the things to be _sold_ at the
> market?

Or bought there, possibly.

> 2. Does
> "What help he is there's no depending on."
> mean
> "What help he is [if] there's no depending on [it]?"

Almost. I'd say 'I can't depend on what help he provides'. Your version
implies he is no help at all (beacause he is undependable, but I think
it could also be interepreted as meaning that he is of help (what help =
what (little) help he gives) but that help isn't worth much because she
can't depend on it being there when needed.

> 3. Which "ditch" are we talking in:
> "to ditch the meadow?"
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> M-W U
> ---

I would have assumed (b), but it sounds like a technical farming term
and I'm not too sure I'm right.

> 4. Does
> "Daft on education"
> mean
> "stupid about the role of education"
> or
> "badly educated?"

I agree with Donna's comment on this. He's crazy, madly enthusiastic
about education.

> 5. Both
> "caught up her hand"
> and
> "caught her hand"
> seem in use. Any differences?

I thing 'caught up her hand' is used less and might be a little
old-fashioned.

> -----
> She took the market things from Warren's arms
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Thanks.
> Marius Hancu

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Cheryl

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010

Frost: market things