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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Frost: belilaced
Hello: 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it suggest? Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in place, as they seem to be in the poem? 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it, So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t." Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the "wrong ones mustn't be saved"? I only found: ---- Mark (4:11): "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom ... all these things are done in parables." ---- in a Philip Booth article, but ... --- DIRECTIVE ... Then for the house that is no more a house, But only a belilaced cellar hole, Now slowly closing like a dent in dough. ... I have kept hidden in the instep arch Of an old cedar at the waterside A broken drinking goblet like the Grail Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it, So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t. ... Robert Frost, p. 378 http://www.abraword.com/Frost1.htm --- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it > suggest? Tee hee. Looks like "beli-laced". be-lilac-ed. It's got lilacs around it. > Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or > only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in > place, as they seem to be in the poem? In BrE, it would probably be a man-hole down which the coal man tipped the coal, directly into the cellar. Not sure if that's what Frost meant. > 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it, > So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t." This, I don't know. > I have kept hidden in the instep arch > Of an old cedar at the waterside > A broken drinking goblet like the Grail > Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it, > So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t.  SignatureDavid >> Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >In BrE, it would probably be a man-hole down which the coal man tipped >the coal, directly into the cellar. Not sure if that's what Frost meant. Possibly not. I envisage an entrance with a horizont or sloping door or doors. This is a British style "coal hole" and cover: http://www.pbase.com/ivorwolstencroft/image/59542516 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_hole Entrances to cellars were used in some old pubs. Barrels of beer were rolled down a wooden slope, "beer skids" (apparently), from street level into the cellar. This is modern technology: http://www.cellaraccess.co.uk/steel-skids-shutes.html SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >horizont -al SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> horizont > > -al Ah horizont et al SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> horizont >> -al > > Ah > horizont et al And you can call me Betty... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>> horizont >>> -al [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And you can call me Betty... Too late, Betty. Somebody et Al. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>> horizont >>>> -al [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > Too late, Betty. Somebody et Al. Ed. SignatureJames Peter wrote on Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:41:06 +0000: >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Possibly not. I envisage an entrance with a horizont or > sloping door or doors. > This is a British style "coal hole" and cover: > http://www.pbase.com/ivorwolstencroft/image/59542516 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_hole > Entrances to cellars were used in some old pubs. Barrels of > beer were rolled down a wooden slope, "beer skids" > (apparently), from street level into the cellar. > This is modern technology: > http://www.cellaraccess.co.uk/steel-skids-shutes.html Such an external cellar entrance might well have lilac bushes planted to conceal it but my initial thoughts on seeing "belilaced" were "belly-laced" and it was a few seconds before "be-lilac-ed" came to mind. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it > > suggest? > > Tee hee. Looks like "beli-laced". > > be-lilac-ed. It's got lilacs around it. Thank you. Marius Hancu > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it > suggest? I would write it "be-lilac'd", but I suppose he may have wanted to include the idea of lace. > Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, > or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are > left in place, as they seem to be in the poem? Don't think so, during construction; it's possible, but not a standard term AFAIK. > 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it, > So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t." > > Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the > "wrong ones mustn't be saved"? Maybe Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." The reference to baptism would be a link with talk of the river, and christening is traditionally associated with the gift of a silver cup. > I only found: > ---- [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > http://www.abraword.com/Frost1.htm > --- > > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it > > suggest? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > would be a link with talk of the river, and christening is > traditionally associated with the gift of a silver cup. OK. > > I only found: > > ---- [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Under a spell so the wrong ones can t find it, > > So can t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn t. Thank you all. Marius Hancu ... > Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the > "wrong ones mustn't be saved"? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ---- > in a Philip Booth article, but ... John Frederick Nims, in /The Harper Anthology of Poetry/, quotes Frost's friend Theodore Morrison as saying it was indeed that passage. "According to Frost, Christ almost said, 'You can't be saved unless you understand poetry....'" Frost also said, "The poet is not offering any general salvation--nor Christian salvation in particular." The key lines are "Cold as a spring as yet so near its source,/ Too lofty and original to rage" and "The key word in the whole poem is source--whatever source it is." -- Jerry Friedman > > Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the > > "wrong ones mustn't be saved"? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > passage. "According to Frost, Christ almost said, 'You can't be saved > unless you understand poetry....'" Ah, that Ted, married to Kay, who had a short hot liaison with Frost. > Frost also said, "The poet is not offering any general salvation--nor > Christian salvation in particular." The key lines are "Cold as a > spring as yet so near its source,/ Too lofty and original to rage" and > "The key word in the whole poem is source--whatever source it is." Thanks for the details. Marius Hancu 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it suggest? Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in place, as they seem to be in the poem? DIRECTIVE ... Then for the house that is no more a house, But only a belilaced cellar hole, Now slowly closing like a dent in dough. ... Robert Frost, p. 378 http://www.abraword.com/Frost1.htm Belilaced is a horrid, pretentious and ugly word, presumably coined by Frost (with one eye on Whitman.) Nevertheless the phrase describes well the typical derelict New England farm site, abandoned since the 19th or early 20th century. Lilacs were the single most popular decorative shrub, since needing little or no attention by the pioneer farmer and offering abundant strongly scented blooms in springtime, when the melted snow reveals the animal waste accumulated in the winter months. . . . Pioneer farms all had a "root cellar" for winter storage of potatos, turnips, apples etc., and a cool place for butter and cheese in summer, usually raw rock walls and a dirt floor under the farmhouse. After abandoned farmhouses eventually fell down, all that usually remained was the belilaced cellar hole. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it > suggest? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > when the melted snow reveals the animal waste > accumulated in the winter months. . . . Once you realise it's not "beli-laced" that makes sense! SignatureOnline waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk |
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